What kind of support normally goes under light weight concrete porch floors?
I’m a beginner building a new house in the DFW area of Texas. It is a pier and beam house with cripple walls.
The plans call for a light weight concrete floor for the front porch which is 5′ to 7′ off the ground and for the back porch which is 7′ to 9′ off the ground. The underside of the front porch is enclosed, and the back porch isn’t which makes it look more like a balcony. They both have full roofs.
I have a good framing crew hired to do the task, but I really want to understand how this is normally done before I make an even bigger fool of myself than usual.
Replies
Do the plans show this as cantilevered or supported on posts?
Do they show it framed for structure and the floor only as "lightweight concrete?
or do they show a totally concrete structure and if so, how is it detailed?
Or are these not real plans at all? Something like this should be drawn and noted well enough to be built.
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There have been a couple times that guys have photographed their plan set to post here in jpeg format for help "interpreting" how to build things
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The back porch / balcony is supported on posts. The front porch on 12" x 24" grade beams and what appears to be 2x4 cripple walls.
MATERIAL FOR PORCHES FIGURED AS LIGHT-WEIGHT CONCRETE<!----><!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
40-2X4- 92 5/8 FJ STUD SKIRT WALL<!----><!---->
3-2X12-24 #2<!----><!---->
3-2X12-20 #2 YP<!----><!---->
3-2X12-18 #2 YP<!----><!---->
58-2X12-12 #2 YP<!----><!---->
14-2X12-10 #2 YP<!----><!---->
8-2X6-10 #2 YP<!----><!---->
4-2X12 DOUBLE JOIST HGR.<!----><!---->
46-2X12 SINGLE JOIST HGR.
The front porch is 36' x 10', the back porch is 24' x 10'.
The plans show piers and posts supporting the floor and roof for the back porch, piers and gradebeams supporting porch structure and brick wall under the floor.
There is no information on the structure, it appears to be left up to the framer to figure it out from this.
So, I'm trying to understand how it is usually done.
Well, it is pretty clear that the framing is to be 2x12. Not clear what layout, but there seems to be enough pieces to do it 12" OC for those two porches and the longer lengths for ledger and rim beam.The twelve foot length is interesting for a ten foot deep porch! You could stretch it to a little over ten feet and still use the cut offs for solid blocking 14-1/2".You will still be needing a deck sheathing material tho - like a 3/4" ply T&G.Gypcrete is the only lightweight crete I am aware of myself, but have never seen that used outside. Time for somebody else to bump this for you
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The 2 x 12's on 16" centers will be fine. You'll probably want to use 3/4" or at least 5/8" exterior ply for the wood deck on top of the joists. Screw that flooring down properly with screws at least every 6."
Go here and search for the "Miraflex II Decking System" :
http://www.miracote.com
In the meantime, let me get my photos together and I'll be back soon (within a day) to make another thread entitled, "Liteweight Concrete Deck." It'll show how I just did one in Michigan. Sweet. Easy.
While I'm doing that, you figure out what the finish of this concrete is going to be. Troweled? Colored? Stamped? Broomed? Is there a hardscape designer involved? Who's doing the ceement placing?
the miracote looks like a good answer. At least they have installation instructions that make some sense.
screw the plywood down or glue and screw the plywood down?
T&G plywood or not?
Will construction traffic on the plywood affect the bonding of the miracote primer?
I passed the concrete finish question along to the design committee (wife). I'm the implementation committee and have no say on design decisions. <grin>
The concrete will be applied by whatever contractor best suits my needs (expertise, schedule, and budget). It would be nice if the contractor that does the driveway and sidewalk also does the porches, but it may or may not work out that way.
I failed to make a point last time.
This Miracote method results in a reinforced concrete with a total thickness of about 5/8" to 7/8" thick. Finished in almost an infinite methods and colors. Freezeproof, fireproof, waterproof.
This procedure is one more likely to be performed by those professionals offering cementatious coatings. Your regular flatwork guy will most likely not be aware of this. Although he would be the best to learn about and add to his quiver of offerings.
It is within the ability of an experienced and picky DIY'er. As long as he has sufficient labor assistance (2-3 others) and the cell phone number of a Miracote Regional Rep that can walk him thru the procedure and answer any last minute questions that pop up. And they will do that.
What part of the country you at?
The miracote II appears to be exactly what we are looking for.
I know of at least one flat work contractor that does this type of work, I'm not sure I can afford his prices, but I will at least give him the opportunity to bid the work.
I won't rule out doing it myself, but I have several do it myself tasks already on this house and I need to avoid adding too many more to the list.
The house is being built on the west end of Fort Worth, TX.
I will say, the final surface - how's it finished for it's purpose - will be the final issue to the Queen's satisfaction. Should you get too much irregularity from a stamped pattern, it could make having stable patio chairs/tables impossible.
I've seen a steel troweled finish with 3 or 4 different tints litely sprayed into the surface, resulting in a big smooth blotchy appearance and then glazed. Once saw cut (1/4") into a pattern, became more like a nice tile or marble. An antislip is broadcast in the final sealcoat.
Depending upon the finisher's technique, it could look like a bluestone, pink sandstone, practically anything the applying artist is able to do. And it's no heavier than the wood deck it replaces.
I've even seen stamped ceement that looks like wooden planks. That would be well within this system's ability.
The one quote I have so far on the miracote is $12 a sq. ft. - way outside my budget. I can put down T&G IPE for a lot less.
Edited 6/21/2007 3:48 pm ET by paul42
You will want to frame it the oppposite direction for that.
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Always glue fro deck sheathing.
PL Premium is bestAlways T&G unless you want to fit blocking right at the joints and use more glue.I would not go to 5/8" - keep it 3/4". For a crete deck you do not want deflection between joists of any kind.
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I've been hoping you would post that information on the lightweight concrete deck.
Are you going to put in a floor drain?
If not what about premade concrete?
Just thoughts
The porches will slope away from the house, so no floor drain needed.
Premade concrete is an option I will look into.
The bids I have so far on the light weight concrete range from $9 to $15 a sq. ft. which is way outside my budget.
Hey guys
If the porch floor slopes away be sure to add a drip edge at the outside or you will get water flowing under the slab and back toward the house. Use a small triangle of soft wood to form it and pull it out later...Just a thought.
Nuvue
There you go!
Any questions?