The hyperactive City Council of Boulder, CO has come up with another winner. They want to limit the hours that construction work can be done to 8-6 M-F. See article here: (http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2008/feb/04/city-council-may-halt-weekend-building/ )
The comments section (aside from having some pretty funny, and pretty ridiculous comments) has a few posts from people who have lived in places that have rules like this. I’m curious if people on Breaktime live/build in towns with rules like this, and if you do what has been the impact.
-Rich
(thankfully, outside the city limits of Boulder)
Replies
Near Annapolis there is an old beachfront community, Sherwood Forest, that prohibits any outside construction activity between April and October. Don't know about the impact as I don't live there but it's gotta be a major headache.
Runnerguy
Edited 2/4/2008 6:19 pm ET by runnerguy
Hey.
I like the idea.
Just make sure that it includes ALL CONTRUCTION.
Car knocks down a power pole friday evening, it stays down under monday.
Likewise a water line break.
Hope the ditches can care off all of the water.
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Pretty common out here. Most city's you can't start before 7 am. More affluent suburbs 8 am. Worked on a house last month could not start on Saturday till 9 am, no work at all on Sunday.
These laws are rarely enforced unless a complaint is recieved, but I've seen it happen. We used to do a lot of work at Stanford U. in Palo Alto and the town across the creek was Atherton. Cops came a couple of times, after awhile there would be a cruiser parked at the gate. Fines can be hefty, and I think the job can be red tagged.
We do large projects and an 8 o'clock start time can make it hard to get a crew. They opt to work at a 7 o'clock start time site.
Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.
"some pretty funny, and pretty ridiculous comments..."
I always get irritated by those who basically don't work, putting pressure on those who do.
The rules in my town are noise OK from 7am to 10pm; however, my own (*&%$&$#!!!) neighbors complained to the city on a peripheral topic about how I'd woken them up 'at least a dozen times' working on my house.
When I heard about this letter and then directly confronted them about the complaint and asked them why they had not once come over to let me know that I'd woken them up or that there was a problem, we talked about it and they said they would really like me not to make any noise before 9am--weekday or weekend.
!!??
(I actually never do anything noisy til at least after 8am and never after 6 in the neighborhood out of courtesy for those in my own area)
This from a couple--she does not work and he is a delivery driver. Not like they have night jobs or anything...
my own (*&%$&$#!!!) neighbors complained to the city
Yup. Around here it's 8AM-6PM, M-F. Know how I know?
Neighbor called the cops on me at 6:20 one evening when a siding crew was working on my house.
I came tearing outta the house cursing the cop. He said no work after 6PM.
House sat there looking like sh!t for years because I never could find the time to break away from my own projects. Finally broke down and hired a crew.
I've lived/worked in this town for over 40 years and never had any idea such an ordinance existed.
Cop wouldn't give me the name of the person who complained. I should have let him write me the summons so I could have faced my accusor, the ball-less wonder.
We've got neighbors that lodge complaints when THEY feel your grass is too high.
They'll never confront you face to face though.
J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements
That's the part that chaps me. I'm always on the up and up and I'd do just about anything for my neighbors.
The guy on the other side has use of any of my tools and equipment gladly in trade for one of his homebrews! He's got a kegerator with 4 taps, usually 3 beers and a rootbeer for his daughter.
Then there's others... "Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing..."
Most of my neighbors are great....one or two, I could do without.
I'm pretty much convinced that the one who called the cops is our ex- Fire Chief.
I honestly don't believe the cops would have come out for anyone other than him.
Like I said....40 plus years in this neighborhood, and I had never heard of such a law.
J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements
I live in Eugene Oregon...
Some would think that I myself am, what would you call it? A tree-hugging, dirt-worshipping, granola-biting, Green Earth loving, yellow lab having...subaru-driving, democrat voting etc.... like, liberal, or whatever...
But here in Eugene, we have a different breed. There's this thing that I call the "West Coast Entitlement Complex" where you have all of the above, plus an attitude that one is owed something....
Like silence before 9am in a busy neighboorhood full of dogs, kids, cars and grown men with powertools, flush with the drive to use them in any productive way.... is a BIRTHRIGHT!
Compared to some of these people out here.. (I grew up in Wisconsin, where we work) I'm right wing.
Damn you for fixing up that house! That before was a drug house with 14 people living in it's 1500sqft. Oh, but they were quiet and groovy man... like just be!
Can you tell this topic gets me goin?"Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing..."
The nerve of those homeowners who think their right to a little peace and quiet at the place they've invested a couple of hundred grand supersedes us builders' rights to turn a tidy buck or two.It's down right communistic.
I'm talking about myself, a homeowner contractor who bought a slumlord's drug-house dive and is now living in it, as his prmary residence, working on it and raising his family. Involved in the neighborhood, trying to improve things....
And, not making any construction noise between the regulated hours, plus some 'courtesy cushion.'
Not a builder/developer trying to "to turn a tidy buck or two."
We fixed up another house nearby and got nothing but compliments and praise from the neighborhood, despite any noise."Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing..."
LOL.
Yup. The thing that killed me the most about my situation was that my house had been the eyesore of the block for YEARS. Since before I ever moved in.
I did little with the exterior at first, because I knew I would be adding on.
Once I started siding, I thought the neighbors would be thrilled not to have to look at this place anymore. I know I was. I was often embarressed pulling into my driveway at the end of the day. Here I was making other peoples homes beautiful, while mine sat there looking like a pile of dung.
Hell....the reason I decided to hire it out was because it was taking me too long to finish. Killed me to pay someone else to do what I knew I could do better.
Then they go and call the cops at 6:20 in the evening. Grrrrrrrrr.
J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements
No good deed goes unpunished."Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing..."
Seems to me like you should tell the HO that work hrs are from 7am-5pm and that is what will be billed. If the city won't let you work he eats the idle time. Maybe they will be more concerned with the ordanances that are passed.
I was in the carpenters union in northern calif. The union contractors did most of the big projects. non union contractors had the single family projects. When ever the non union contractors did a large project the union watched them and passed out flyers to the neighbors listing the phone numbers to call for violations.... Ps i wouldn't want to live in one of those shoddy built condo's when the next earthquake hits.. Ps dozen of cal-osha savety violations every day. You have 3 times a greater chance of being killed on a non union job.....
union propaganda
I've never had a union contractor's paycheck bounce, I still haven't peen paid for work i did for non union guy's 10 years ago''' When a non union contractors paycheck bounces take it back and have him write you a new one showing $ 1.oo take home pay and the rest of the money listed in the additional withholding column. at the end of the year you can get a tax refund and the scab contractor can fight with the IRS because he probably bounced on them too or didn't file his quarterly tax statements... Unions have free training to upgrade your skills which means you can make more money, the state of Calif found that union contractors finish the major projects on time and cost less money over all. there are a lot of stuff I don' like about the politicians in the union but you earn a good retirement that most non union contractors don't offer.
union propaganda
amazing, free training. Come on guys, he claims that all nonunion contractors bounce paychecks, don't pay good wages, don't pay benifits. Sir, most of what you say is directly out of union playbook. Don't try to recruit here. I work, nonunion at higher pay, with medical, retirement and disability. As far as safety is concerned , the only time I was on a job that someone died , he was a union sparky. Back off, unions were for the dark ages. The contractors I know like to be the employers of there men, and not dictated to by unions.
How they came up with, cost less money, must have been paid off by and paid bty union. This is not the case in upstate NY. If someone wants to pay less money they hire nonunion. I believe somone made up this study. Again, union can't compete, except with a labor agreement that guarentees that everyone must be paid the same.
In north calif the union scale is the minimum pay. some contractors pay bonus depending of work completed. In calif a lot of the non union contractors are hiring the no green card workers. one project I designed and was reviewing and consulting on payed cash the first friday , then on the next friday said pay checks would be the next wednesday, then demanded documentation before he could write checks, No papers ----no checks, he was lucky no one came back at night with 5 gallons of gas or a pistola. I told him my consulting was over. the biggest problem is the unions don.t have what it takes to get rid of bad performing workers, there were always a few guys on the out of work list that get sent to a job and sent back after less than 40 hours and end up at the top of the list for the next job . when us members tried to get the shade tree dogs kicked out of the union we got over ruled by the union brass. yes there is some bad stuff but i would still rather work union. I have talked to people that have worked union in the northeast and they say no way would they go back .
I will buy that.
We've got neighbors that lodge complaints when THEY feel your grass is too high.
They'll never confront you face to face though.
Yeah, WTF is wrong with just wandering over and talking about it ? This passive aggresive s**t is ridiculous.
My brother was using a small tractor (JD 4000 series) to move some dirt from an egress window at his house a few weeks ago, and the neighbors called the cops to complain about the noise at 7:00pm.(noise ordinance is 10pm) And, that he was not using his hazard lights when backing on to the street.(Even the cop didnt know if this was against a statute) This in a town of about 1800 people, with zero traffic. And that he had his four year old son on the tractor with him, but his four year old was not in a restraint.(the cop was pretty sure this wasn't)
My brother dared the cop to write him a citation for something, but the cop knew it was BS too.
The neighbors that called him in are his next door neighbors that he has known for four years and has never had any face to face problems with. They always call the cops if they don't like something, then smile and talk as if they never have a problem with anything......Naive but refreshing !
Yup....if some of my neighbors don't figure out how to become more "neighborly" about conflicts, I am going to paint this house purple.....trim and all.....just before I sell it.
J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements
Getting "along" with your neighbors is like walking a fine line. I've had neighbors where I just didn't want to live next door to them any longer. We ended up moving eventually.
I've learned over the years that for me getting along with them as best I can is better than living next door to someone you can't stand to live next to.
Some people don't want confrontation with others so they avoid it at all costs. But they still want to "talk" to you. So they use the police and the law. They are "talking" to you but non-verbally.
The best policy is to put your neighbor above yourself. Apologize. Ask them if it is o.k. to re-side your house. Take over cookies. Tell them that if they EVER need anything don't hesitate to ask. Tell them this over and over.
But work within the law to fix up your house. But keep them informed and participating. If you don't want to, or can't stomach it, bring in your wife to be the person who breaks the ice.
They might see you as being to much for them to handle. They might see you as a hot head. So your wife might be the person to take cookies over.
This is just my opinion. It could sound like I'm the best neighbor ever. I'm not. I have selfish motives for getting along with my neighbors. So in a way, doing all these selfless things for your neighbor is really a self centered thing to do. You might think it is to late but it is never to late.
Edited 2/5/2008 9:54 am ET by popawheelie
I don't disagree....well, maybe the cookies is a bit much.....but I've always tried to be a good neighbor.
By and large, we all work together. It's a great neighborhood. We all get out there and help each other shovel snow....lend a hand with a project....or a tool....carry heavy trash to the curb.....avoid parking in one anothers "spots"...watch one anothers children....and on and on.
But there are those folks who just want no part in all that. Which is fine too. Like family, you don't always get to choose your neighbors.
But to call the cops without first speaking to someone about an offense?
Cookies aint gonna make or break that deal. : )
J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements
"The best policy is to put your neighbor above yourself. Apologize. Ask them if it is o.k. to re-side your house. Take over cookies. Tell them that if they EVER need anything don't hesitate to ask. Tell them this over and over."
Grrrrrr... That failed us miserably. After many many overatures, then being stabbed in the back, we gave them a letter stating if they had issues they were to either speak directly to us about a problem, or issue complaint to any authority governing the type of problem they were having. If we were out of compliance, we'd make sure to stay within the rules. BUT that we would continue to do what we are doing within the rules as we understand them.
Can you imagine the city's response to a noise complaint at 10am on a Friday?"Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing..."
It sounds like you have exhausted your ability to fix their attitude towards you and your work. Good job. Well done.
Sometimes there is no answer that you can give that will fix it. My statement was directed towards people who can change the direction before it comes down to irreconcilable differences.
What I've done with my new neighbors is to go on the offensive. We have given all our neighbors cookies and nice gestures BEFORE we needed to. But if we had neighbors from hell none of that would work.
Believe me, I know what a bad neighbor is. We had one a few houses back and not only were just stupid but they were aggressively stupid. They went out of their way to cause problems. And they had two kids from hell.
One of the kids caused me great harm. I was very close to going to jail over it. I went out of my way to try and fix it but there was no fixing it. They were across the street and there was a church right next door. I had a meeting with the pastor to see if he could help straighten it out with a meeting. He dropped it like a hot rock. Not his business I guess. It was a "nice" little Christian town out in the middle of nowhere. I couldn't wait to move out of there. And I'm a Christian!
Edited 2/5/2008 12:03 pm ET by popawheelie
These were incognito. We introduced ourselves right a way. She had a baby on the way. We had a 2 year old. They were really nice up front but something was fishy.
I fixed the fence between the houses, removing an errant post set in cc about 5 feet into their yard... Gave them garden veggies. Honey from our hives. Etc.
Then the complaints.
We were surprised and offended, really.
There's only so much you can do."Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing..."
Like I said about the neighbors two houses back. Not only were they stupid but they insisted on proving to everyone.
I figure I'm not good at certain things. So I don't do them, or not in front of everybody.
I agree also. I'm in the middle of rebuilding a teardown. We all have 7' sideyard setbacks so we're pretty close.
I caught a little bit of flak early on when the demo guys worked 15 days straight including two Sundays. And they make a LOT of noise. While I was happy the work was getting done I myself thought a Sunday break might have been in order.
When it came time for the crane for the roof trusses, the only time the carpenter could get the crane was on a Sunday. He wasn't happy about working sunday either but it was either Sunday or lose a whole week.
So I called the neighbors on either side and the ones across the street and explained the thing. That worked fine. They were all understanding and I just think they appreciated my concern.
It's better to be proactive. Cookies may have been a little much. Earplugs maybe??????
Runnerguy
I can just see the plate of cookies with the plastic wrap over them and inside a couple of little earplugs. Humor helps also. It's getting so people don't have a lot of character. By that I mean to have enough character to roll with punches of life. They are self centered and have very little character. That's why they have very little humor in them. Dry as a bone.
When we had a new puppy in a row house in Hoboken, we gave the neighbors a six-pack of good beer and a package of ear plugs - when they stopped laughing, everything was fine, & they were not dog lovers.
What about this one, in our town of Boise a couple made the news, they were thertening legal action. They purchased a home I think it was in the last three years on a golf couse. Well they got a little peved when mowing on the course started at 5 to 6 am by their house. In summer that is full daylight most landscapers try to be done at 3pm the hottest time of day is 5pm . The golf course and home had almost been there before these two were even born since about 1970. When did they expect the mowing to start!In town we don't have a real solid noise ordance an officer told me once, when we called on some jerks in the rental next to us that were throwing fireworks into our yard at 11:30 pm. He said it is not disturbing the peace it is if you feel your peace is being disturbed, he would not be testifing we would file and testify against them. No real stop and start time we were told. Don't know if it has changed but some sub divisions have their own rules.Wallyo
Interesting stories, thanks for all the responses. I'm curious if anyone works both in places with these roules and without. How do you adjust your rates to accomodate the loss of money from working in one of these restricted areas? Or do you just take the job, and eat the difference. Boulder is always fretting about how expensive it is to live there, and then constantly coming up with policies that make it more expensive to live there. So I'm interested in some idea of what the actual financial impact of a policy like this will be.I know in my case, before I started a multi-year remodel on my place I apologized in advance to the neighbors and made sure to tell them to let me know if I was making too much noise, or working at bad times of day. My next door neighbor has a young kid, and I would have happily not run the tools during some afternoon naptime if they had wanted, but everyone promised me it was fine. I had one neighbor come ask me to unplug the compressor when I leave the site. Turns out it had a slow leak, and was cycling on in the middle of the night, and waking her up. I had no idea (I'm not living there while I work on it), and was really embarrassed. I became dilligent about making sure it was unplugged when I left. Such an easy fix. One short conversation, no cops, no hard feelings.-Rich
I can't speak for anyone else----
but here we have some suburbs with a 8:00 am noise ordinance--and some without.-- my neighborhood, for instance really has no 8:00 am restriction.
how does it impact me??- it doesn't. I don't find an 8:00 am to 6:00 restriction----- at all restricting--- in fact i find it civilized--and part of leading a decent life.
we simply incorporate it as part of our standard work system--- we will arrive shortly before 8:00--- but nothing really gets started untill 8;00--and then we are all business.
really--without getting snotty-----I see it as part of operating like a decent human being. these people have entrusted me with their homes---can't I show 'em a bit of respect in return??--it's their HOME!
so---we don't start before 8:00, we dont leave dump trucks or dump trailers on site over night---ALL trash gets removed from the site every night, we don't leave ladders or scaffolding set up on site over night, customer maintains full access to their driveway and garage----just simple common sense stuff.
really- i don't see what the big deal is--frankly I can't imagine working any other way--nor would i want to.
Best wishes all,
Stephen
BTW--it helps to remember---when you are working for customer "A"---you are also auditioning for neighbors B,C,D,E,F,G,H,I,J,K etc.
Edited 2/5/2008 4:24 pm ET by Hazlett
really--without getting snotty-----I see it as part of operating like a decent human being. these people have entrusted me with their homes---can't I show 'em a bit of respect in return??--it's their HOME!
For me.....it wasn't about the ordinance. It was that the first step was to call the cops.
While I personally think that 6PM is a bit early....if dems da rules, dems da rules.
But to call the cops within 20 mins?
J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements
The golf course and home had almost been there before these two were even born since about 1970.thats like the people that build by a 100 year old landfill and then complain about the odor.two ways to screw up concrete 1) concrete driver 2) concrete finisher
Just another gestapo action by Boulder. It is amazing that one email to a council person gets this kind of action but half the town can show up at council meeting and they won't pay any attention to the citizens so it takes a petition to force them to listen. Its all about the agenda.
I have spent almost 50 years in this crazy town and we can't get out of here soon enough. It is sad but it is such a dsfunctonal city. One thing they do do very well though is propaganda. They have convinced a lot of people how smart they are but those of us with at least one functioning brain cell left know it is just a facade.
I started a project doing a loft renovation, and the rules were 8-5 nothing on weekends. Since it was a card acess building, they blocked the contractors cards except those hours. We were doing half the 3rd floor, one of the Dixie Chicks was just finishing up the space directly above.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Just so the residents understand that the resultant cost will be passed directly to them. I don't mind being limited to a M-F 9 hr day, but I still need to be paid for my regular 65 hour week!
I'm finishing up a project in a CPW co-op, Hours are; M-F 8:30 (no noise unitl 9)- 4:30. No weekends. About standard 'round here.
The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.
- Fyodor Dostoyevski
Boulder was a great place until it became almost as freaky as Berkely. Reasonable restrictions are understandable. I think most are put in place to reign in the genuinely stupid. Take for instance the company building next to my apartment building. Was it sooooo important to use the crane mounted pneumatic driver to pound 50 foot I beams down to bedrock at 5:00 AM? I am not sure if the ordinance or random household items hurled by my neighbors actually delayed the work until a more reasonable hour.
Try working in some of the NYC coops like FNbenthayer. How about work can only be done between 9 and 3 and no coming and going from the building in "work" clothes, must arrive and leave in street clothes. When you are in your street clothes be sure to only use the service elevator.
I wish they had a time period. we have crew working around the clock, seven days a week. its common to place concrete at 1 am..two ways to screw up concrete 1) concrete driver 2) concrete finisher
surprised your batch plants are open then.
they pretty much run 24 hours a day. not all but there will be a couple open,.two ways to screw up concrete 1) concrete driver 2) concrete finisher
if people on Breaktime live/build in towns with rules like this, and if you do what has been the impact
The abutting city to our south has an 8-6 M-S rule, and a couple of the subdivisions have 9-4 M-F rules; both near universally ignored (PD will respond to noise complaints, but usually only early in the day or on weekends).
My town really only restricts construction sound, and then really only on Saturday & Sunday; but the noise ordinances apply in full all of the time. Fire that impact wrench up on the bolts to a metal frame building at 0630 on a Sunday and the PD will be around. (Which also works for you bozo neighbor taking his pawn shop circular saw on the new v-drip for the porch at 0740 on Saturday, too <g>)
There's a few towns along the Jersey shore with similar restrictions.
I worked on a little island community last year where all work had to be stop by May 15, and couldn't resume again until after Labor Day.
The idea was to keep to noise down during the summer, when people were there.
Out here, Northern California, the work rules vary from city to city and many will enforce the work restrictions, especially when someone complains. Our job was shut down once on what was a statewide holiday, Labor Day ironically, and we were forced to lock up and leave. Police officer came around, after complaint was filed by a neighbor, and gave us the low down and ten minutes to vacate the site. She had the gun and patrol car so we decided another day of vacation was a good thing to take part in.
Cannot start before 7:30 am here. Not sure if there is a end time, it is dark in the winter months by 6-6:30 and the other 10 months of the year the heat ususally gets to all of the trades by that time anyway. I think that the morning start time is good, otherwise you would have GC sending crews out at 6am to work on the house next to mine.
Do the want to limit work or limit noise making to those hours? There are plenty of productive things that can be started 30 to 45 minutes earlier that don't make noise.