I am going to be installing (replacing) some vinyl flooring in a couple of small bathrooms and have a few q’s (yes, even after reading the many posts here 😉 ):
– is 1/4″ ply over (e) 3/4″ ply (in decent shape) recommended/ sufficient?
– recommended screws, staples or nails to secure underlayment? (I’m thinking staples)
– is it suggested or recommended to use const. adhesive below underlayment
– is it more common to strip base before flooring installation or add shoe-mold after (I’m sure this is as much a matter of opinion and budget but I’d like to hear some thoughts on it)
– what is the recommended way of sealing joint @ tub/ shower (caulk or I’m thinking vinyl base).
Thanks to all, David
Replies
You need to use an Underlayment Grade plywood. The main detail is that there is no voids in the interlayers.
Luan is often used, but it might not might not be an underlayment grade.
You need either use underlayment nails (ring shank) or staples. Don't see any need for adhesive.
But you need to go over it with floor patch to fill the seams and over the nail heads.
The "best" installation is to remove the baseboards and to under cut door jambs so that the vinyl sticks under it.
With adding an underlayment the baseboard might look a little short. But with a good job of installing the vinyl sometimes it is just caulked in or can be covered with shoe or 1/4 round.
Usually just caulked at the tub. I don't think that cove base would look very good.
But if you could find plastic shoe or maybe 1/2 qtr rnd that might work. I think that 3/4" would look out of place.
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Underlayment is used rather than 3/4" ply subfloor because there are no voids. Since you already have a subfloor, move-on, unless you have lots of time and money.
1/4" underlayment/ luan is needed for a good result. Stagger the seams. You can ring shank nail or screw. I screw. Either way, you need to skim the surface with a feather finish material. Typically I use Ardex Feather Finish, but other manufacturers offer similar products. Be careful using this material. It has a pot life of 20 minutes so only mix up what you can skim in 20 minutes. Great stuff.
Don't remove the baseboard unless it fits your time and money equation. Do remove the shoe moulding and apply a new one when complete.
Make the tightest seam you can at the tub. Tape the flooring material (vinyl) before you set it and tape the tub. Silicone seam and remove tape immediately.
Tadaa! You're done.
Frankie
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Good reply fron the others.
Only thing I'll add is check the vinyl flooring manufacturer requirements for what type of underlayment to use.
Then use only what they say or you will have no warrentee if there is a product failure.
I've seen Armstrong swithc from requireing underlament grade luan to require underlayment grade GP wafter board, and then back agian a few years later. Same thing with Mannington.
If you are installing for yourself and don't care about a warrentee, use what ever you like. If installing for a customer, use themanufacturer recommended product.
"check the vinyl flooring manufacturer requirements for what type of underlayment to use."Saved me writing that!Al;so nobody has mentioned nailing schedule - should be 6" OC or closer, esp with only 1/4" which has a lot of flex.Guy I know installed 1/4" with nails at 8-10" OC and had to redo the whole thing because it all buckled up
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Outstanding responses, all, just what I was hoping for and I most appreciate your helpful and thorough input.
David
I but in a Mannington floor once and it dicolored in an area right beneath a S/W faceing window. That was the only spot to discolor in a 12x18 kitchen. I used GP 1/4" underlayment and the recommended adhesive.
Manufacturer rep. coundn't explain why there was no other dicoloration in the floor, but did know that the warrenty was voided because they specified 1/4" luan underlayment!
Fortunately it was in my home and we had bought the vinyl from a friend of DW. I didn't have to replace the floor or listen to the "B" factor cause she was the one that had insisted we buy from her friend :)
It was still there when I sold the place.
Luan is never a good choice for underlayment. For best results use 1/4" Baltic Birch which is essentially void free, denser and closer to 1/4" than Luan is. Use narrow crown staples every 4" O.C.
Re removing base vs installing shoe, it of course depends a lot on what "look" you you want to have. Also, if the base has been "painted in" or is otherwise tightly attached you may have trouble removing it cleanly.
If you remove the base, be aware that the bottom wall plate will be about half buried by the buildup of flooring, so new fasteners will have to angle in low. I'd recommend using finish screws, as it's hard to get nails in at the required angle, plus the screws do a better job of pulling the base in tight.
>>Also, if the base has been "painted in" or is otherwise tightly attached you may have trouble removing it cleanly.
Did a new house install of desirner solarium once were the builder had the trim carp install the base before the flooring. Painter painted and caulked everything to boot. He wouldn't remove the base and didn't want sho mold installed. It would cost him to much.
He wanted the vinyl cut tight to the base and a garrantee that it wouldn't eventually curl or be a dirt cather. Told him to find another installer. He relented and added the shoe molding.
I found out from the trim guy that even with his extra time and material the builder still saved $$ or the next lowest bid. I was almost $500 under.
There is the reason I work for wages now.
For years flooring people have been told not to use luaun. Most large yards now carry some sort of underlayment grade ply. Do not use Construction adhesive under vinyl products. I use plenty of narrow crown staples. You will raise less splinters if you orient with the grain, especially along the edges. You could patch seams, but don't overall patch nail or staple holes. It is better to sand than patch. If you keep factory edges together you will minimize lippage.
I pull the base if the room will be painted after (quite common) or if the person objects to the use of shoe molding
If you go to a flooring supply house , such as Tristate flooring or Southland they have a trim strip for your tub joint. It is similar to cove base but a lot smaller.
Paddy