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I've built 2 "cabins" with oak live edge siding. It was sawn from marginal oak logs with a small bandmill.
The end product looked great and will last a very long time with an occasional borate spray to discourage powder post beetles.
It was one of my favorite siding jobs of all times result wise but it is slow work. The longer the board the better.
I always nail it above the overlap only, no blind nailing allowed. I think if you nail it top and bottom splitting will be excessive.
It's not a normal species or dimension chosen for wood siding. That should be one clue.
Not that it couldn't (or shouldn't) be used if you really like it...and the price is right. However, it seems like a whole lot of cupping, checking, and premature rotting will be associated with this type of lumber being used for siding. My guess is that you'll only be getting two pieces of quarter sawn lumber from each log. The rest; probably plain sawn. Good luck with that.
The south is covered with pine siding. Nothing uncommon about it at all here.
please share those ubiquitousexamples
Please post a photo (or two) of this so called 'common' siding (rought sawn, 10", live edge pine) that's covering the South. If it's so ubiquitous that shouldn't be too much to ask. I would love to see how it's holding up down there south of VA. I've spent alot of time in many parts of VA and MD and have never come across it expect in the most base type of buildings. Mostly it would be used for old tobacco barns (in vertical applicaitons) that were meant to leak air like sieves. Even then, they were in a continual state of rot and repair.
I can't imagine why you are so intent any on coming off like a jerk but you're sure doing a.great job of it. There's a search engine called Google, you can type " live edgepine siding" in, hit Images at the top left and do your own research. I'll start you out.
View Image
I'm well aware of what slabs of live edge pine looks like. I'm also aware that you can find just about any image you want to on Google, genius. However, that doesn't make it commonly used material today.
Siding
I have seen this in drier-type climates, mountain cabins and outbuildings. Some of these were very old structures which makes me believe it is a good idea and it looks great. As oldhand said, only one fastener near the bottom edge. slightly above the lower course, thus allowing the wood seasonal movement. Did you have any ideas on how to trim the corners/windows/doors?
doubt you're talking about the same material
If they "were very old structures" with original siding intact, then they were probably cut from old growth cedar, cypruss, or redwood; not pine. You're not generally going to have access to what (and how) we were able to mill lumber ages ago. People knew wood then...and had the luxury then of using mostly heart wood milled in quarter sawn fashion--and it was affordable because chances are they milled it locally themselves.
Bottom line is I'd be wary of using 7/8" thick live edge slab pine today.
I know wood today
Wood species means less in siding than building design. Proper overhang, up off the ground,etc. basic install details rule.
I only know my own climate to be sure [upper mid south which is fairly brutal on wood] but if you do it right pine will be fine. I am talking about southern yellow pine but not old growth.
I'm sitting 8' from the cheapest pine I could buy that I installed in 1978 which is in perfect condition and has never had any treatment beyond a little caulk where required. No paint, no boric acid, nada.
I have sheds that are sided with sweet gun and hickory [ don't try this at home kids] with 20 and more years of time in the elements that are showing no signs of failure. Throw a piece of piece of any of this wood on the ground and it will be good compost pretty quick.
For all I know in some place like the pacific northwest this wouldn't work but I doubt it . Unfortunately the OP didn't specify his locale so who knows there.
I feel that local woods for siding are overlooked on a grand scale as we fall for the design de reguir of modern life. Sorry to start a rant but this is just one of the places where I feel house building practice has back slid in my nearing 40 year stint as a carpenter/woodworker. Sadly I rarely get a chance to use this material anymore.
Lucky for us all I'm too old and unmotivated to really get on a soap box..............
Whaddaya mean? You're already on a soap box
Sure. If you keep any wood completely dry, it will virtually last forever. Hoewever, rarely is that the case. Anyhow, we're talking about 7/8" x 10" pine lap siding here, not just any siding. I can't think of a more wasteful use of wood these days. For new growth yellow pine lumber (that is mostly plain sawn) this is a terrible dimension to be installing lap siding. I don't care if you paint it...or not. Chances are it's gonna cup (and look) like hell.
Old hand, I am wondering a couple things about the siding you're sitting 8' from:
1. What are the dimensions/exposure?
2. What are your overhangs/distance from grade?
3. Why would you need caulk when you have choosen not to paint it? Even the best caulks last 10 years or less. If you want to talk about the importance of good design, then you should be building with a mechanical shed of water and not relying on caulk at all.
4. Lastly, please attach a picture of that 39 year old unfinished, yellow pine siding that has been exposed to "brutal" weather and is in "perfect condition". Would love to see it.
As a fellow woodpecker with 35 years in the field, I'm standing on the soap box with ya brother.
Trees
Well, I have seen a pine board before and yes, they were pine siding boards. East side of the Cascades, dry and cold climate. Ponderosa pine was very abundant, the lumber species of choice, because they were the only trees in sight!
Didn't this post start with a guy building a shed?
Key word: "was"
Also, if
Key word: "was"
Also, if your choosing something because you have no other choice, then is it really a choice?
live edge pine siding
I'ts a shop, not a shed. If the siding is nailed top and bottom that takes care of cupping ect. I'm going to seal the ends with a end grain sealer to prevent splitting. What would be left? I also plan on spraying on super deck to somewhat give it some protection.
LE siding
The shop would have sun to part sun .
LEsiding
The shop also has two foot overhangs.
LEsiding
The shop also has two foot overhangs.
LEsiding
The shop also has two foot overhangs.
Don't nail top and bottom -- that will cause splitting. Nail the bottom and "capture" the top. (Be sure to account for shrinkage in your overlap -- the stuff will shrink quite a bit.)
Dan is exactly right
Do not nail top and bottom. The siding will split sure as shooting if you restrain two edges like that. Nail into the studs just above the top of the course below. Screws would be even better. Seal all six sides before installation, but expect some cupping in any event. It's a rustic look, after all.
This is a very common siding in the north-country of New England and upstate New York. Oak should last a long time, particularly if you can get white oak. Don't run it close to grade or where it gets a lot of splash back. If you have a mixed bag of species, put the more rot-resistant white oak (or black locust if you can get it) in the more rot-prone areas.
The O.P. is talking about running live edge pine for siding, not oak.
Oak is something your imagination interjected into the thread because your too lazy to read the responses and more concerned about your own small world of advice.
You're right
The OP did mention pine. Oldhand mentioned oak. My advice would be the same for pine, though.
As to me being lazy, well, I'd say that I just missed a detail. But at least I wasn't rude in the process.
Andy,
Don't get your panties in twist and take a comment so personally. You didn't miss a detail; you misread (or didn't read at all) the thread. I don't care what old hand wrote. He wasn't the original poster... and went on an unhelpful tangent as well.
BTW, of course we would all love to use black locust for exterior weathering material. Or White Oak.However, that's not what the O.P. has at his disposal. He asking about pine. Besides, black locust would probably cost you about the same as white oak. White oak runs anywhere from $4-7 b/ft. IMO, only a fool would buy white oak (in the 4/4 rough at 10" wide) and put it on a building for siding. There are much more valuable things you can do with that type of lumber (furniture, finish flooring, wine barrels, etc). The industrial revolution in this country is over....and so is the time for raping the planet of low cost precious resources.
Lighten up, you're projecting a hostile persona. Maybe you know what what you're talking about, but you are a turn off.
...but you are a turn off.
In fact, I highly recommend clicking "IGNORE USER" and turning him off.
I'll just keep reading for a while, he does add to the conversations, even though he's condescending and rude sometimes.
Oh, my shorts are fine.
I just don't like being called lazy. And I don't think threads necessarily have to address just the OP's comment. They're conversations that can grow.
As to the costs for white oak, or any lumber, that depends on where one buys them and how processed the material is. Near me, in New Milford CT, I can pay about $7/bf for KD QSWO, flattened, planed to my desired thickness, and straight edged. Of course I wouldn't side a building with that. Or, about 4 miles from that supplier, at a local backwoods mill, I can buy plainsawn, air dried more or less, live edge white oak for $1.25/bf. or less. That I might use as siding.
what a joke
Yeah, I have a local sawmill here in VA that will sell the same WO 4/4 in the rough for about the same price. They'll even rip the live edge off to regular width for a few pennies more. I use that (like everyone else that comes in there to buy it) for horse fencing. For siding? What a cruel joke.
I can understand not liking the look. I'm not wild about it, particularly with how it usually cups. I wouldn't want it on my house.
I can understand not liking the look. I'm not wild about it, particularly with how it usually cups. I wouldn't want it on my house.
L V pine siding
Thank's for all your advise. I'll go with the single 10pss nailing as this was the most mentioned advise.Thank's again!
Let me walk you through this as your reading comprehension seems to be on a par with your manners.
You posted, "It's not a normal species or dimension chosen for wood siding" referring to pine.
My very specific comment to you, "The south is covered with pine siding. Nothing uncommon about it at all here' was in answer to your claim that pine isn't a common wood siding material.
Then you responded, "Please post a photo (or two) of this so called 'common' siding"
So I posted a photo and tried to show you how to find more. So apparently you really didn't mean what you said or you are just here to be a troll.
Here's a website where lots of the guys use live edge siding. http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=search2 However, if you take the same attitude there that you have here you'll be on your back on the street before you know what happened.
Your photo(s) didn't post pal. And I don't really care about you-- or your "guy" friends.
Let me spell it out for you more simply so you can address the original post: Rough cut, 7/8"x 10" (actual), live edge siding is an uncommon and poor choice for siding a respectable building structure.
Do some people use it? Sure. But there are also some people who cut holes in sea crates and call it "home".
Don't worry, I'm sure everyone reading your comments can tell you don't care about anyone you can't see in a mirror.
I see you've had to throw a strawman up to argue against since I didn't say a word about " a respectable building structure."
a good laxative might make you feel better.
I'll stick to the subject.
Not sure what personal tangent Florida is obsessed with (now he's concerned about how I "feel")**, but let me bring this thread back to the subject material of the original post... and the overall concept under which this forum resides. The periodical is called Finehomebuilding after all.
I imagine there are other periodicals devoted to rustic buildings, outbuilding, cabins, etc. where the subject material (rough cut, 10" wide, live pine lumber) may be used for siding. "Florida" may dwell there, but I choose not to. And Finehomebuilding doesn't devote their publication to those type of structures either. My point is that If one looks at the big picture and considers the majority of housing stock that most Americans construct for dwellings, those type of rustic structures now are (and most likely will remain) well in the minority. In other words, they are nolonger common. Not only would this type of siding now be an athstetic most Americans would shun*, but I believe it's nolonger an effecient, cost effective, or environmentally sound use of our natural resources
*One doesn't have to take my word for it. Just drive through (or near) your own neigborhood and count how many structures (respectable or not) that have this specfice type of siding, and how many don't. Also, check out how many local buidling suppliers stock this material, and how many don't. Please let us know how that tally pans out.
**Very sweet of you Florida. But trust me, I'm fine. Next time I suggest you put your strictly personal posts in a private message where they belong.
Cheers!
live edge siding
The location is Brownfield ME