We are having an old breaker panel replaced. The electrician told me that he would balance the load on the new panel – it would save about $100 per month on utility bills. His explanation was somewhat skimpy. He said that the there were two 120 VAC lines from the meter. The meter reads the bigger power draw.
Can anyone give an explanataion of how this balance actually works? Is it very effective in reducing electricity bills?
Thanks…
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Replies
He is full of bull.
The meter reads both legs of a service.
How does the meter work then? Does the motor that turns the metering disk somehow get driven in an additive fashion by both hot legs?BruceT
Yep.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
Is it a metric breaker box?
Yep, all electric stuff (except wire diameter) is metric. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to have electric meters.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
Thanks Dan I never did know what those hertz things were.
Kidney stones. (Speaking from much experience.)
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
Not exactly a real good explanation, but close
http://www.waltonemc.com/Newsletter_Archive/2005_04april_meter.htm
The meter is reading the magnetic field generated by each leg of the service, but that is not directly turning the alum. disk, since alum. is non magnetic..
I'm no expertelectric meters, just a utility guy that works with a bunch of other utility guys that use to rebuild meters. I'll ask one for you if you like.
DanH can probably give a better explanation since, I think, he is an EE.
Edited 12/3/2008 11:02 am ET by DaveRicheson
Nah, electric meters always seemed like witchcraft to me.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
Now ya gone and done it!
Meter readers are evil people.
Now they are gonna get the Salem test to see if they are witches
I'm no expertelectric meters, just a utility guy that works with a bunch of other utility guys that use to rebuild meters.
Your job description got my attention... Here in Texas, I've heard that meter guys get paid a "bounty" by the local taxing enity if they turn in any new construction they see. Do you know anybody that does this?...
Bill
Our tax man uses satellite pictures and a computer matching program that flags anything that changes for closer inspection. They also do an on site inspection about every 2 years.
Of course, whenever a permit is closed they show up right away.
They have always had a lot better idea of what I was doing than I would suspect but they have never "dimed me out" to the building department. They just raise my taxes.
Bill,
In my old neighborhood it was the township trash collectors who would rat people out.
Actually my job desciption is Maintenace Tech. A. The A standing for journeyman.
Back when I first started here the company use to rebuild about 90% of all electric and gas meters. We also tested and certified all meters wheather new or rebuilt. Now most all of that work is contracted. Some of our meter service, corrections, cut on/off techs. once worked in one of the meter shops, so that is where I turn when meter questions come up.
Virtually all of our meter reading is contracted. Getting those people to read a meter correctly is task enough for them. They average from 3 to 5% error rate per month (thus our "correction" people). With our own meter readers we were in the 1/2 to 1% range with the norm closer to 1/2%, but we are saving big $$ using contractors.
BTW I'm more inclined to identify myself as a carpenter than anything else, even though I've held a master electrician license for the past four years. I also attend college in my youth and came within a hair of getting my BS in chemistry, before dropping out and hanging a nail apron on my skinny tail.
Utility guy fits pretty good too, as I know a liitle about many trades, but am a master of none.
It might save a few pennies a month, due to reduced voltage drop on the lines. It's something that should be done as a matter of course when a panel is installed/replaced.
Interesting concept, but possibly works better when one is wearing one's tin foil helmet <G>
Ask him for an explanation and let us know ....
"Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
Howard Thurman
(What it means is getting approximately the same load on both 120V sides of the 240V line.)
Is the meter downhill from the transformer?
Scott.
Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.â€
Doesn't have to be, so long as the insulation isn't leaking.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
Yes. I assume that you mean the transformer on the pole outside the house.
>>it would save about $100 per month on utility bills. His explanation was somewhat skimpy...<<
Couple questions for you.
1) Is the electrician charging you an extra fee to balance your new panel? I would think work which produces a $1200. annual savings would warrant an extra fee. If yes, how much?
2) How long does the electrician warranty his work? Especially the load balancing / energy savings part. I would be sending a certified letter demanding my unrealized "savings" about a week before the warranty expires!
3) Skimpy explanations to back this claim would be the norm, since there is no basis to that $100 / month savings claim.
But, yes, one should make every attempt to balance the load on the 2 legs.
Good luck getting anything in writing on this one!
Jim
I would get another electrician.
For the following reasoning.
A. He really believes what he is telling you, in which case he doesn't know what he is talking about.
B. He is knowingly telling you a bunch of B.S., in which case he is dishonest and shouldn't be trusted.
Your 240V equipment is already balanced in that it pulls from both 120V legs at the same time anyway. This would be your air conditioner, electric stove, electric range, electric water heater, electric dryer, etc. I guarantee you that the electric company is charging you for the electricity pulled in both legs and not just one of them.
So the vast majority of your electricity usage is likely to come from the 240V equipment.
Your 120V equipment is probably not on all the time, so how could he "balance" the circuits enough to save $100.00 a month.
He could split the breakers by amperage rating amongst the two legs, but that doesn't mean he is splitting the load since you can plug in or turn on different loads on different circuits all the time.
There is a thing called power factor adjustment that can save some money, but it mostly applies to commercial or industrial facilities that have lots of induction motors, etc.
I would agree with others, in that he is mis-informed. Also beware of the any electricians selling you a power factor correction device said to save you money. It won't. As stated by others, the meter for most residential service is a kilo-watt-hour meter, which, by definition reads real power, there are no current transformers.
You are being scammed, in case you don't believe anyone else here but me.
Balancing a service panel is a good idea in any case, but wont save you much money. It might keep some breakers from nuisance tripping, but that is about it. It might slightly prolong the life of some motors in your home, too. It has more to do with current back on the neutral, I believe, and equalizing the potential to the source...........harmonics too, like tuning a guitar, or tuning up your car. The differences might not be all that noticable, but good electricians have balanced panels.
Your electrician is as full of #### as a Christmas goose!
I once lived in a house that was 1oo yrs old w/ electric svc that dated to the 1940's. It had 220 (or 240) volt, 200 amp svc in it, but had to be modernized to bring it up to current stds. We kept blowing fuzes in the MAIN ckt. They were the big cylindrical jobs w/ a blade at each end. It was always the same fuze that blew. All the 110 (120) volt stuff was unequally split between the two legs of the 220 (240). Hence, it was very easy to blow one of the main fuzes! When the electricians came to do the job, we discussed how we used electricity & why the main was blowing. ALL the kitchen appliance outlets were on the same leg - hence, unbalanced load since they are power hawgs. Just look at the power requirerments on your appliances - toaster vens, microwaves, fridge, dishwasher, etc. They are all well over several kilowatts in aggregate. Divide their total power consumption by 110 (120) & get the amps they draw. Well over the capacity of one leg of the main. Split your load for balance.
It's that simple.
Cheers. I'm an EE by education & a DIY electrician building my own house. I know just enough to know when to ask questions.
Don
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