I’ve been asked to make a ladder to a loft in what is now a children’s bedroom. The height between floors is 9 feet. There’s a 29-inch opening in the balustrades at one end of the loft against the wall, so the ladder will rest one side against the wall. I’m guessing the previous owners had a make-shift ladder and took it with them to avoid any liability issues. (if no one can get up to the loft, no one can fall out either.) I made a similar ladder a few years ago for my kid’s playhouse–2 by 4 stock for the side verticals, with the treads dadoed into the sides. It seams strtaightforward to make a well-constructed ladder that gets bolted onto the joist and at the base into the wall. Are there any building codes specific to loft ladders–spacing of treads, rise to run requirements, etc? Because it’s more ladder than stairs, the spacing between steps/rungs seams more appropriate at 10 or 11 inches. And the tree–house ladder I did seams very comfortable at an equivalent of a 42 inch run to a 9 foot rise. Feedback appreciated. Tony
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You sound like you've got it basicaly already, but here's my two cents...
Take a ladder up there and place it comfortably to be sure of the pitch.
Build it out of Clear vertical grain fir.
I have done a few and like to make the treads from 5/4 or 6/4 by six.
I make the stringers from 2x3 or two by four and dado the treads into then about a half inch. The tread will protrude at the front, I radius the front corners and wrap it so the total length of the tread comes to the outside of the stringers.
I assemble it all with glue, clamps, and countersunk screws, then use buttons to cover them with. Fir tends to be a little splintery so you have to select the wood carefully and maybe relieve the edges so the kiddos don't have a trip to the emergycy room with a spear of wood sticking out but the fir is rreally strong and beautifull.
You'll probably need to make up a sample pattern piece for layout from cheap wood to make sure to fit it right. I like to place a piece attached to the wall or whatever at the top that has a dado in it or a bevel and then notch the top of the stringers to fit it. That way gravity locks it in place to keep it from moving/sliding/(emergency room tripping)out but you can still remove it when necessary. For instance, I've done one in a broom closet for attic access. They can stand it all the way vertical and have plenty of room for the vacum until they need to make that yearly trip to the attic for Christmass dedcorations. You idea of bolting to the wall would be safer where kids are getting rambunctious and could knock it all akilter.
Well, maybe that was four cents worth...
Excellence is its own reward!
Edited 6/12/2002 8:14:40 PM ET by piffin
My house had a similar situation. The previous owners had a ladder made similar to what piffin describes only they used 2x10's for the stringers and steps. One heavy mutha.
But in reality, the use of such a ladder precluded the space from being considered as part of the overall living square footage (something about proper access).
Accordingly, I moved a wall under the loft 3 ft to one side and opened up the opening to the loft. I then built in a curved back wall with a 30" radius. The 5' x 5' opening essentially had a half round backside.
Then I had my stairmaster put in a nice oak spiral stair. Not cheap, but looks great, is effective, and I got the extra sq footage.
I thought it was the other way around, if it wan't habitable space you didn't have to put in real stairs. Or were you below some regulatory minimum on square footage?
More square foots gets you more appraised value - more equity - higher net worth - so you can borrow more to be able to pay the higher taxes assesed based on square feets.
Excellence is its own reward!
Ah. I knew I was missing something.
One thing that popped into my mind after reading this post was an alternating tread stair. I wonder if it would work in this situation?
I have the body of a God. Buddha.
Boss: You mean the thing that Ben Franklin invented? He observed that one only uses one quarter of a standard stairway. Your right foot falls on the right half of every other tread. Your left foot falls on the left half of the other alternate treads. So he compressed it all by leaving out the other side and leaving out every other step on each side.
They have half-width treads between one side and a third, middle stringer. Your right foot lands on odd steps and your left foot lands on even steps. It certainly allows some very steep angles. And, at that very steep angle, you can still have large tread depth for your entire foot to fall on. Not a shallow tread that only fits your toes.
David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
Exactly -
I found a couple of links, if any of you are not familiar with them:
Not a great picture, and not wooden, but it gets the concept across:
http://www.materialflow.com/Lapeyre_Alternating_Tread_Stairway.jpg
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Here's an explanation of how it works;
http://www.lapeyrestair.com/stair/lshome.nsf/2ac63c2ec5541d71862567160080c73a/6e660a26c6838a9686256716007f23e0!OpenDocument
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that's all I could come up with right now..........
When someone asks you, "A penny for your thoughts," and you put in your two cents worth, what happens to the other penny?
Wait, I thought it was Thomas Jefferson who invented the alternating tread staircase.....it sez so on the tour brochure at Monticello, but then, maybe he got the idea from Ben Franklin, who knows. Anyway, it is addressed in the BOCA code, 1996 commentary, section 1014.6.6 and described in Figure 1014.6.6. Alternating tread staircases are permitted for access to a mezzanine or loft area not more than 250 square feet and which serves not more than 5 occupants. Ladders, or "ship's ladders" to habitable space are not allowed, at all, except for folding staircases to attics which are closed off from the habitable space. Handrails are required on the alternating treat staircases, with balusters 4-inch o.c., with a guardrail and balusters at the loft platform. Tread depth is 8-1/2" minimum, and riser height is 9-1/2" maximum. Tread width is 7-inch minimum. Each tread has to project 5-inch from the one above it. I'm getting ready to build my second one to access a child sleeping loft in my tiny house model. They can be works of art, I made my first one from 5/4 clear eastern white pine stringers and clear western red cedar treads, with the newels and handrails 2-inch clear Douglas fir and the balusters 5/4 red cedar. Handrails are required on both sides. It is possible to build a alternating tread staircase only 18-inches wide overall, and requiring only 5 lineal feet of floor space, plus a 2-foot landing at the bottom, about what you would have in a bedroom closet. Compare that to a standard staircase that requires 3-feet by 12-feet space. The smaller staircase doesn't actually save you much space in a McMansion, but its a necessity in some of the little bitty houses I build. Regards, Andy Lee
This all has been a bunch of good solid info for alternate stairs, especially the alternating steps. I built one and have seen another. Both have now been removed and redesigned to accomodate other stair systems because the owners never got the hang of using them safley - no problem going up but going down you discover the reason for the handrail requirements. Does anybody actually LIKE them other than as a layout/design challenge or to admire as a piece of unique furniture?
BTW, neither Franklin nor Jefferson invented them. The cliff dwellings of the Anasazi incorporate alternate steps into their access/defense plan. They add a twist also. Their rising path slides sideways along the cliff occasionally. If you don't know at the beginning which foot to start on, you'll eventually be forced to get crosslegged, hopping and flopping your way up the cliff. Try that with defenders throwing rocks down at you, and you start to wonder whose idea it was to raid this burough!
Excellence is its own reward!
Your right, I don't much care for going down them either, but the kids who visit my tiny house (12'x24') seem to get a thrill out of the sleeping loft, and that's the only way I can get them up there with the approval of the building inspector. I think the BOCA code originally was written to cover prison gaurds and towers. Interesting information about the Anasazi's using these ladders. I intend to visit their ruins one of these days. It will also be interesting if I ever have a need to build a landing or change of direction into one of these things, then I'll really be punching the calculator. Regards, Andy Lee
less calculator and more visualization. If you can play chess, looking eight or ten moves in advance, you have the idea.
Proper Planning is its own reward!
In my brother's house, he has a loft-access ladder. The stringers were a little deeper, maybe 8". Into the stringers they routed elongated ovals that serve as convenient hand grips. Makes a nice design. Been trying to get a picture for someone else, but he's being slow.