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I am interested in construction calculators for my business. Do any of you have ideas? Or should I just stick to the good ol Radio SHack calculator? I don’t need the programs that bad but feel like I deserve the luxury. Kinda like the Stabila torpedo level I bought yesterday. Did I really need a $25 torpedo level?? Naw, but I feel better.
I know the title is spelled wrong, but I can’t change it now! DOH!!!
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Replies
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I have the Radio Shack, it's okay except the display is too dim if you use rechargeable batteries; however, I really covet a Construction Master Pro - someday.
*I have the construction master 2. I really like it and rely on it. It saves me alot of time.
*Woodworkers Warehouse or the Big Boxes... CM Pro or...near the stream with several,ajhttp://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/size=20&store-name=hi&index=tools&field-manubrand=Calculated%20Industries/002-9355032-8422425http://www.calculated.com/
*Out of curiosity, has anyone tried one of those Inch Mate calculators ? They have one for cabinet making and another for house construction: about 1/2 the price of CM.
*I have one of those Inch Mates , but I rarely use it. I still grab my trusty Texas Instrument TI 30. It's just that I haven't used the I.M. enough to feel comfortable with it.Dave
*Constuction master IV is the best, I keep it on me at all times
*I saw the CM IV at staples today for 49.95
*BD Thats a good price, i paid almost 60 bucks for mine about 3 years ago.
*I think HD here in Wash. State has CM IV for $49.95.
*Construction Master Calcs are great....for paperweights. Take the time to learn a little math and do it on your own. The math isn't that hard. (maybe ask your kid if you need help) $50 bucks for a $5.00 calculator, wish I thought of that. What happens if the battery goes down? Close up for the day?tk, a stabila level shows dedication to accuracy, CM Calcs show the same to laziness.Just thinking aloud...GN
*Gn- I do agree for the most part. Damn straight you better know how to do the math............But the CM does save some time, so does a $5 calculator, how could you not agree? So you'd rather do it all long hand? LOL ..........It's also handy to have trig. tables built into a calculator. Just MHO. -Ken
*And do you go home for the day if your battery on your drill/driver goes to empty ? But make an 1/8" mis-calc on spacing for spindles along a 20' span of railing and you're out somewhere near 1/2 a foot. Maybe that would pay for the calculator right there.
*GN.... If you don't know math then you aren't going to use a calculator! This fact has been proven to me by dozens of carpenters thru the years. The CM-4 is incredible. And by the way... the battery lasts for years on years. I have had a few of these calculators and have never had a battery issue. I have had days when I couldn't find it which is one reason I have more than one.And as to use... Mine is used mostly for estimates... and once in awhile to play what ifs in the field when needed. Huge time saver and adds so much more confidence that I tried all possibilities in picking my final layouts for my customers. None of my deck stairs are standard cookie cutter. All of them are very well received for their added characteristics.near the stream able to do math in the noggin, on the square, the slide rule and the CM-4,aj
*Jeez, aj, you still have a slide rule, let alone remember how to use it? .........I still have mine from high school, circular type with a card that slides inside with loads of formulae printed on it.......Yeah, I went to a private high school in Seattle with Bill Gates. I have this vision from then of a little nerdy kid with coke bottle glasses, slide rule hanging/dragging from his belt, on his way down to the Math/Science building. We had a computer lab at school (late 60's) hooked up to a mainframe at the U. of Wash.. Ran programs with a perforated paper tape......God, if I had just made friends with the guy, loaned him a few bucks, "Here's some money, Bill, just to help you get started with your gee-whiz-computers-are-neat enterprise."..................
*My son took my old Pickett N4-ES 'rule to show'n'tell in grade 1: when I went to pick him up, several of teachers were all out in the hall with one older teacher was showing the younger ones how a 'rule works, most had never seen one before.
*I think the problem lies in that most that use (or attempt to use) these calcs tend to forget or ignore the underlying math. Aj, it appears, uses it in the ideal way (if there is one.)To follow along with Phill's analogies: I would plug in my corded drill. If a math calculation is off, I would know why and not because I pushed the wrong button on a calc. If you truly know the math, reasoning, and formulas, it can be (and usually is) much faster and just as easy to track down a mistake.In another text, just because you have access to and know how to use spell check on your computer, do you decide that you don't need to learn how to spell? I'm going off memory here (as I can't find the issue) but I think JLC had an article last month that detailed how to calc an irregular valley. I think that the procedure to calc that on the CM Calcs took just as many or more key punches and was MORE confusing than doing it the regular way.Give me a Scientific Calc, a pen and paper and I'll do most of the figuring myself. You shouldn't need a machine to eliminate a few key strokes for you at the expense of learning the correct procedures.Anyway, didn't mean to ruffle any splinters, this is just one of my (many) hot points.GN
*GN- Just like measure twice, cut once. On a calc. I'll run thru at least twice if not more to eliminate mistakes- if you get the same result three times on a calc., likely is correct. -Ken
*Thanks guys, I prefer paper, pencil and a standard calc. I do tend to see calc mistakes when they happen and refigure. I have never used a fancy Construction type calculator. Now I do not know if I will! It seems simple math and a knowlege of your materials will get you the same results.
*GN,I take exception to your posts.Quite frankly, you sound like a person who has made up his mind, and might not change. You've got a hot spot, as you say, and you've surely let us know about it.Construction Master Calculators don't belong in the same sentence as laziness, as you suggest. When a new tool comes along that creates shortcuts for a tradesperson, that tool will eventually become a "standard tool of the trade", as the Construction Master Calcs already have.These Calculatorsi thinkin feet and inches, so thati youdon't have to. What more could you ask for?Would you rather sit down with your $5 Calc, get an answer in decimal form, then convert it to the nearest 1/16th of an inch? Or perhaps you'd like to step down your jack rafters, when the CM4 does it more accurately, and gives you the lengths of i each jackto the nearest 1/16th, so that there is no cumulative error. And a lot faster than your $5 calc.You make a good point about understanding the principles of framing, and knowing how to work out the math, but if you want to work out the math with dark age techniques, I don't feel that you should encourage others to join you.And please don't insult the mathematics that I personally use in my trade, as something that you should "ask your kid if you need help". If you take advantage of mathematics, GN, you may find yourself using mathematical concepts that go well beyond "what your kid knows". It's just a matter of how far you want to go with it.
*Ken,Your "exceptions" to my post are neither warranted nor wanted. I've expressed my opinions and I stick by them. Disagree with them if you want, I could care less.As far as CM Calcs being the "standard tool of the trade" (now or ever) I would very strongly disagree. I would like to challenge you to back that statement up. Present a textbook (used by a college, trade school etc.) that even introduces this "tool" as useful. Identify a large home builder that insists or even suggests that its lead carpenters, foreman, supers utilize this type of calculator. I would be very surprised if you could, and suspect of any company that would.As far as having a calculator "think in feet and inches so I don't have to", that is my whole point. I don't mind doing the thinking. Additionally, I refuse to work with anyone that doesn't want to think. If you prefer to bury your head and have a machine do all the work for you, go for it. I just want to have nothing to do with you. I see and deal with enough lazy people every day, I don't want to surround myself with them. By the way, I have some great investments I'd like to interest you in! Don't worry though, you don't need to know the details or anything about the company, just send me your money, I'll make ya rich!Getting back to my whole issue. As you have so blatantly contradicted yourself in "... if you want to work out the math with dark age techniques" and then "... please don't insult the mathematics that I personally use in my trade." I find it funny that you would say something like that. These are not "dark age techniques". Math, geometry is the basis for modern day construction. Suspension bridges, High-rise buildings, tilt-up warehouses, and the regular old gable roof are built using the same basic formulas and theories. Having a calculator that consolidates a few key strokes and makes the computations brainless is not a step into the future. It, as stated earlier, is a step toward laziness.Just a few more rebuts.. It would take me, (and you or anyone willing) less time to convert a number in decimal form to feet and inches than it would to pull a calculator out of my pocket. (Just remember 8-9-8, very simple ) I have taken advantage of mathematics, and technology for that matter. I just have no desire to rely on a machine that saves on a couple of key strokes at the expense of procedural understanding, nor would I want to depend on anyone that did.Good luck with your business, hope I get to compete against you someday. I don't mind easy money.
*GN.... Just to let you know.... Ken is one of the sites top mathematicians. He also is a fulltime roof cutter in Texas. He can cut a huge pile of rafters to cover a Mcmillion dollar zillion hipped dormered valleyed roof...leave the pile all numbered for the youngsters to come along and knock together juuust like the purty picture shows.In other words.... you 2 just need to agree to disagree.By the by... I too am no tape fumblin cowboy myself... Had to back up the car to the school to load up all the math and science awards they decided to give the kid that stopped handing in homework in kindergarten. Like I said... Math wizzes like calculators...as do estimators... Carpenters with GEDs avoid em like they hopelessly try to avoid their wifes on payday.You on the other hand... Are unique. So hold your head high bro.near the stream,ajps... FYI..do a search on Ken Drake and see what comes up...
*Ken and GN - Didn't get the impression that either of you are like Rainman idiot savant and can do it all in you head within seconds. Thank god you're both mathematically fluent enough so that you know the principles behind your keystrokes! I can't imagine that either of you do the math longhand, therefore you use the calc to save time. The logic follows that if you use a basic calc to save time, you're using the more advanced calc to save some more time........Lots of perfectly intelligent ways to arrive at the same place! -Ken
*GN,I really don't see why you want to equate a Construction Master Calculator, or a person that uses one, with the notion of "laziness". I work very hard at what I do. I'm not a lazy person by anyone's definition, except possible yours. I use a CM4 to get answers quicker, and thus, get the work done faster. i Have a problem with that?I also find it interesting that your $5 dollar calculator is a good thing, but my $50 calculator is a bad thing. According to your line of reasoning, your $5 calculator is for the i thinkingman, but my $50 calculator is for the i lazyman.Also, your $5 dollar calculator is a calculator, but my $50 calculator is a i machine. It's not a machine GN. It's is very similar to your $5 calculator, but it does a whole hellova lot more. Is there something wrong with that?