Replies

1. 
   FastEddie1 | May 03, 2005 06:38am | #1

   Four seasons sunroom .com

    

   I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.

1. 
   MNwayne | May 04, 2005 04:12am | #4

   I'd like to hear what "the right way" is.

2. 
   VaTom | May 03, 2005 04:12pm | #2

   You want a kit, or parts?

   PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!

1. 
   MNwayne | May 04, 2005 04:13am | #5

   A kit.

3. 
   MrEnergy | May 03, 2005 07:31pm | #3

   Four Seasons, yes. They can provide, I think. Albeit expensive.

   Bad design, idea, though. People have this vision that they can build this glass thing to enjoy the outdoors while remaining indoors. Most people have no idea what will result and what they are getting themselves into.

   Then it's built and they either never get used or the owner spends thousands more dollars on dealing w/ the problems ... that they ultimately really can't solve because the design of this type is not a good way to accomplish what they want. Blinds and shades to control the summer heat ... and maybe even A/C installed. Then it's too cold in the winter so they add heat.

   What orientation does the vertical wall face? (not that it matters much as glass in the roof is just asking for trouble).

   Design and build to be energy nuetral and have a space that is more useable year round at no operating cost and lower construction cost ... while still getting a 'connection to the outside' feeling.

   Have you attempted to warn them of the ramifications of doing what they are doing or do they have unlimited funds and don't care about the other appects of their design?

   Sorry for getting on my soap box w/out knowing the specifics. I suspect a classic case of consumers wanting something that simply is not really what they think. If this is not the case, my apologies.

1. 
   MNwayne | May 04, 2005 04:39am | #7

   Wally, I'd like to hear your read on the bad points of this design.  My first concern is the heat buildup, my second is snow load.  I'm in northern Minnesota, we get snow, we also are diligent about keeping excessive amounts of snow off roofs.  Regarding heat, here in northern Minn. heat is good, of course too much can still be a bummer.  A/C is not an option, it's not present in the home, not planned to be installed and usually not neccesary this far north anyway.  We are concerned about heat and hope windows along with low-e double pane glass will suffice.  It will have a southeast exposure and won't lose the sun until about 5:00 pm.  This room would be an add-on to a small retirement cottage for a wonderful little old lady, it would serve as an entry room just off the kitchen, a place to drop dirty shoes, start seedlings in the spring (she gardens a lot), and a place to sit and rest while getting away from the bugs.  The house only measures 24x30 and, in order to keep with the scale of the home and the needs of the client, this room would only be in the neighborhood of 8x10.  The glass roof would allow a lot of light to still enter the kitchen and I'm sure she wouldn't mind a room that's usually warm since she is the frail type.  If you can call someone frail who is 80 years old and isn't afraid to go outside in 20 below weather.

1. 
   ndege | May 04, 2005 04:51am | #8

   I live in Wisconsin and have been doing a lot of research on building a similar room. At least, I think it's similar. There are some companies that build these things but I'll have to look up the names I found. I also figured that I could build it myself; there's a website for greenhouses that shows some detailing.I agree with some other people here that it's full of problems, but since I want to do this on my own house, I figured I could work those out. I didn't find a kit that doesn't look like cheap crap.

2. 
   MikeSmith | May 04, 2005 05:07am | #10

   wayner... wally's got it right...

   for heating purposes... roof top glass is absurd...

   vertical glass is the best in our latitudes.. and superinsulated roofs and net walls..

   roof glazing is glitzy but all at the wrong orientation.. and impossible to cool in the summer..

    vertical glass can be shaded with overhangs in the summer

   four seasons is beautiful but stupid design....

   if you want to bring light into the interior... think dormer.. or clerestory

   Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

   Edited 5/3/2005 10:33 pm ET by Mike Smith

3. 
   MrEnergy | May 04, 2005 04:51pm | #13

   Sounds like the classic client not knowing what they are getting themselves into. No A/C now ... she will most assuredly need it later. You think it might get into the eighties? Think again ... more like 120 + degF in the summer.

   My sunspace ... vertical glass only got up over 90 degF on cold sunny winter days! It was designed to trap sunshine ... but only in the winter. That 90 deg space was great when it was 20 deg outside.

   Is the sunspace open to the house or is it separated by e.g. a door? A separation allows you to control the situation the most. Keeps the coolness out on cloudy cold winter days and the warmth in the summer, but allows you to open it on sunny winter days or during spring/fall mild weather. French doors or sliders would help maintain a connection w/ the rest of the house.

   A good sunspace ... for both plants and people is vertical southern facing glass ONLY. NONE in the roof and minimally on the east/west. Exceptions might be if you are assured solid shading from e.g. a large [existing] deciduous tree. But even then, you are working against yourself during the winter as the roof/east/west glass are always losers in the winter months. And if you aren't increasing the size of the heating system, your 'frail' client will be chilled on cloudy winter days.

   8x10 is a great size. Southeast exposure is reasonable. Best w/in about 40 deg of due south. If you can tweak it askew a bit, great, but if you can't, you are still reasonable.

   So, vertical glass only .... high as you can to maximize winter gain and maximize your exposure/view to the outside. Put a solid roof on it w/ an overhang to shade it in the summer time. Plants will love it and help the feeling of pulling the outdoors in. If you can afford it ... use Heat Mirror glass (see other discussions on window choices in Breaktime). HM-88 would maximize solar gain (in winter) and thermal insulation (u-values down to 0.22 for glass only; you can get even lower u-values if you want to spend the $). You might be able to afford the Heat Mirror with the savings on one of the kits by constructing it ... not sure. The overhang should be enough to block about 90%+ of the noon summer sun from hitting the glass.

   My sunspace was like a jungle. 24 ft long; varied 5 to 8ft wide w/ 9 ft glass. Plants grew to the ceiling. It was unheated and separated from the house w/ french doors. It NEVER overheated (i.e. trapped heat) in the summer. Hope this whets your appetite for a better alternative that simply makes more sense all the way around.

   All glass sunspaces ... you can't have your cake and eat it too. For 95% of applications, they just don't seem to work and many people don't understand that until they shell out the big bucks and realize what a monster they've created.

   Let me know if you have more questions. I could e-mail you some pics of one I designed.

1. 
   cawfy | May 05, 2005 01:25am | #14

   Wally,I'm about to order material for a poolside shelter/structure.No walls,just a roof supported by posts.I was going to use twin walled polycarbonate panels,pearl color to block out some sun.Suppose to block 52% of light.It will be a low sloped pitch,say 4/12.Do you think that there may be too much heat for that also?Actually I will be building 2,1 for myself and another for a customer.the biggest will be 15 x 25.Anyone use this type of material lately,if so where did you buy from,how much did it cost and were you satisfied???I seem to remember a guy saying he found some used.
   thanks,
   george C.ps,do not mean to hijack this post

1. 
   VaTom | May 05, 2005 03:42am | #15

   ps,do not mean to hijack this post

   Um, hmmm. 

   Not polycarbonate, but these translucent panels, more than 52%, are nice:

   I'm reusing them in a lumber shed and equipment shed.  PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!

4. 
   coonass | May 04, 2005 04:26am | #6

   wayner,
   Charley's Greenhouse has some kits similar to what you are looking for. I've only done one but it wasn't too hard. Learned to cut curved glass.
   http://www.charleysgreenhouse.com/index2.cfm?page=_g1&cid1=716

   KK

5. 
   Dinosaur | May 04, 2005 05:02am | #9

   I don't have much info on high-quality glass sunrooms, but I know who does. We have a BT regular whose nickname is Kostello. He builds and installs these things for a living. Use the search function to find a message to or from him, click on his name and his profile will pop-up. From there, you can send him a private e-mail.

    

   Dinosaur

   'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?

    

6. 
   ndege | May 04, 2005 06:15am | #11

   Here's one: http://www.solarinnovations.com

7. 
   DenverKevin | May 04, 2005 10:31am | #12

   Check out as many sunroom additions as you can in your vicinity. You'll see most of them filled with junk and covered with a tarp or shadecloth. That means they probably are a leaky inferno.

8. 
   Isamemon | May 05, 2005 10:30pm | #16

   I use to install 4 seasons, sunshine rooms, westview,and Lindal sunrooms. I still do the lindals. they are beautiful , warm and fit the architecture of the home. If you dont know about them , look into them. Same guys who make the Lindal Cedar Homes.

   I had problems with the curved glass aluminum rooms, but knock on wood, have not been called back for any leakers or anything.

   The curved glass does distort the view. The curved glass is under lots of stress and sometimes will shatter just by  looking at it.

   Often people want them because thats what they are used to seeing on a mcdonalds or other fast food place. but often I have put them on a person house, even after they approved prelim drawings and computer generated pics

   only to be all done and say,,,,,,,,,,,oh it looks added on.

   but regardless of the kit. what is critical is strong foundation and level. as soon as any of them start to twist, thats when they leak.

    

   but dollar wise, a good sunroom will start over 130 sq ft, some will run into 200 sq ft. I can build one darn nice room addition with lots of windows and skylights for that

   But an all glass sunroom is beautiful and the majority of the customers that want them have had them before

   so still interested

   Look into Lindal