i’m framing a house right now and the rafter lengths are going to be 33′ without tails. the builder doesn’t want to special order so i’m going to have to splice. in the past we’ve always used whatever stock we’re using for the the rafters to sister alongside the splice. today my lead man was telling me that the last place he worked they just used plywood to cover the joints and stapled the devil out of it. i’m open for suggestions. seems to me the builder is not really saving money with all the material involved in splicing, bracing etc. oh, by the way we’re working with an 8/12 pitch. we should be ready to start cutting rafters on monday. i’d really like to hear from you guys. thanks
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
The FHB podcast crew chats about whether or not coil stock on fascia and rake trim is necessary.
Featured Video
Related Stories
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
Sounds like a job for TJIs!
If the builder isn't willing to use trusses or t-js, & isn't having an engineer certify the splice detail, he's cheating the client IMHO
this buider is having this house built for himself. go figure
Tell him it is insane to do this without engineered TJIs. You could get hurt just trying to sheathe the damn thing. Better get GOOD insurance! Life, Health, liability...
and an alibi for when him return to kill the idiot
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Might hold till snow season, or high winds hit.
Inspecter man won't care who's house it is.
No way will that clear span....do like Joe said.Break them on a bearing knee-wall.
i agree that's exzactly what i'm gonna do Framer. but nobody has answered about what my lead man told me about splicing with plywood and liquid nail and staples as opposed to using the same 2x stock we're going to use for the rafters themselves. believe me i'm going to reinforce the devil oit of this roof. good thing about it all is there's no snow here in the desert.
Side splice OVER the intermediate bearing wall. Any other splice doesn't count for sh!t!The wind still blows in the desert. Never hear of wind loads?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"...nobody has answered about what my lead man told me about splicing with plywood and liquid nail and staples..."
In my opinion, it's ridiculous. Rafters shouldn't be spliced.
I suppose technically it's POSSIBLE. But you would have to design the connection correctly, with the correct size of plywood or lumber scab. And the fastening schedule would have to be specific about fastener size and spacing. But I doubt anyone would go to that much trouble.
My friend is a radio announcer, and when he walks under a bridge... you can't hear him talk.
Joe Carola provided the best splicing method. In addition, you should have collar ties.
Supporting the span over a knee wall and installing collar ties breaks up the span to reasonable lengths that can be pulled off the IRC (or equivalent) span tables for rafter live loads for your area/region.
I don't recall that you mentioned the pitch; a lower pitch may require more than a single knee wall, or struts to a bearing wall or a strongback.
Edited 7/6/2005 9:04 am ET by Notchman
but nobody has answered about splicing with
I can't find any sort of reference to permissible splices in 6 pages of goole search (other than for truss member significantly shorter than 33').
I want to recall an old old tome on framing suggesting that a framing splice wanted to be a third of the span and the same depth, and stitch nailed to a specified fastener table. Not really very close to putting some PL on a 2-3' gusset of 3/4" plywood.
Now, just to see, I plugged some numbers into the sagulator--a 369" x 1.5" x 11.25" fir "shelf" bearing 990# (30# for 33') deflects 2.87" almost a quarter of the member's depth.
good thing about it all is there's no snow here in the desert.
That makes it a tad simpler, does offer the chance to point out that filling out a bit of your profile info (just click on your name in blue) can help answer some of these questions. Especially as "desert" spans a bit, CA being different than AZ being different than UT, etc.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
albert,
If the break is gonna be over the knee wall then sure, if they want to use plywood instead of 2x material why not? Not sure how much you'll save since you'll need to size the plywood so it isn't proud of the rafters, then cut the plywood to length, glue, staple and etc. sounds like it would take more time than grabbing a 2x and nailing it in place.. multiply times the number of rafters that need doing and you'll have an idea of the added costs involved..
Isn't there a bearing wall to lay the rafters along side eachother or are you talking about clear spanning spliced 33' rafters?
Also, isn't this on thie plans or is you Bozo builder winging it?
If you do this you are Liable my friend because this is reall a joke, right?
What do the plans call out? If it ain't on the plans you might as well throw a dart out in the lumber pile and use whatever it hits. If it isn't on the plans and you build it and it fails.... you own it.
splice all you want....as long as it's spliced on a knee-wall.A bearing knee-wall,that is.Anyone for a game of darts?:)
Oh.... I thought he was talking about a clear span with a splice in the middle. My bad. Now I get it.
Edited 7/5/2005 9:53 pm ET by dieselpig
Brian, The way I figure this:A - He is pulling our legs, but all our legs put together won't stretch 33'B - He has only been doing this for three or four months and is trying to learn.C - He is a hack, working for a hack-pinis there another choice I might have missed?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
a hack wouldn't care at all about this issue. and since 1981 nobody has asked for something this crazy. get it?
i agree that's exzactly what i'm gonna do Framer. but nobody has answered about what my lead man told me about splicing with plywood and liquid nail and staples as opposed to using the same 2x stock we're going to use for the rafters themselves. believe me i'm going to reinforce the devil oit of this roof. good thing about it all is there's no snow here in the desert.
If your going to do as I said earlier then why do you keep talking about splicing? I don't think you even know what your talking about. Are you planning on cutting the first set of rafters half way on the top plate of your wall lets sat a 2x4 @ 1-3/4" and then the second set 1-3/4" a=nd butt them into eachother and then put plywood and glue on each side and all that other Happy Horse Sh!t your talking about???
Your first set of rafters shoud sit on a bearing wall with the second set along side of them.
Tell your lead man to lead you to the truck and read a book on engineering because that's what you think your job is here and it's not. It's the Architects job.............. and if the builder doesn't like it tell him to go jump off a bridge along with your so called lead man.........
Joe Carola
Albert, I'll take a stab at this - if there is no mid point bearing, forget it. If there IS, then the purpose of the splice is to stop the bottom portion sliding off the roof, right? If so, then I reckon that 3/4" ply nailed and glued to both sides should do it. 2 times 3/4" = 1-1/2", ok. I wouldn't vouch for just the one side.
I would NOT put the splice where there's shear: a 2x has all the grain going one way, but ply has only 4/7ths going the one way (3/7ths is cross-grain), so it would only be a little more than half as strong.
Ergo, have some supports - at least I've tried to answer yours, now you tell us if the supports are there like we've asked!cheers
***I'm a contractor - but I'm trying to go straight!***
yes but i'll have to frame them just like i 've had to in the past.beneath the rafters. maybe i just should have asked for everyones method of making extremely long rafters. to use plywood or the same stock to cover the splice on both sides. i've used the method of basically cutting 2 rafters alongside eachother sitting on another wall but that's not what this guy wants. he wants to go cheap and i'm not going along for that ride. Piko to you and the rest of you all who were professional and courteous, i give my thanks. to the rest of you,well maybe you'll understand that to recieve dignity and respect you got to be willing to give it first. that's how children make themselves seem important, by belittling and name calling others. there's a whole lot more to manhood than what you are able to percieve. look to the Master Carpenter and He'll teach you if you want to learn.
If you try to frame the supporting kneewall under the rafters after they are already in place. it will be impossible to do it right. The rafters will already have an inch or more of deflection so there is no way to know then how tall to build and you would have to jack the roof up to get the support in. Do it right the first time instead of building backaswards. build the wall then set the rafters to it.A master carpenter won't build something that will hurt somnebody the way you are trying to do.. He'll feel sorry for the lunatic who wants to live under such a roof.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I don’t necessarily agree with you Piffin.
An acceptable way to splice a 33’ rafter would be to just lap them. For instance, to reach 33’ plus a tail you could use two 20’ and have a 4’ lap yielding a 36’ board to start with. Or use any combination equaling 40’ lapped 4’ with the intent of bracing the rafters at the spliced area over a bearing wall. I have built knee walls on pitch for loooong slopes only to find my slab/foundation was not perfect and then take measures to fix it. Yes, you have to raise them (spliced rafters) up to flat when bracing but if the bracing is at an angle and not plumb it is not hard to do. I do not make any layout adjustments when splicing these rafters as the 4’ sheathing will not be affected enough to matter.
Also, I would imagine that these 33’ rafters will have more than one purlin/bracing point too. But w/o the plans, Ima guessing.
We aren't disagreeing as long as you put the splicce over the supporting wall. A six inch splice would be enough there, but if there is no support under it, the splice will not hold the end of the joist against the loads no matter how you do it.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I was not necessarily disagreeing with you either Piffin. I along with you and the rest have speculated as to what are really the structural circumstances of Albert’s Loooong slope. (Clear span, or attic space, what ever) It is quit common to splice rafters to create long boards though and a variety of do’s and don’ts methods and circumstance has been addressed so far. If you’ve ever been asked to fix another framers over spanned trampoline roof you know how unrewarding the experience is. But Al’s question was posed vaguely to begin with, so we all are stabbing in the dark.
<!----><!---->
I have seen framing plan layouts with spliced rafters as I describe in my previous post. Just lapping the boards four foot will allow you to handle them and get them up and brace. I have done it too. If you have a gable roof then lap them all the same. I have not found gang cutting or pattern marking to be advisable so I mark each one with a tape. Knee walls, beams, or splicing are all ways to build long sloped roofs.
<!---->
I have had several long 44’+ Hip Rafters recently and spliced two 26’ers together with long angle Scarf cuts, stitch weld them from each side with a 1-1/4” prong wide crown staples and nails. The long scarf joint and wide crowns allow you to not add strengthener scabs to the side for manhandling the beast up in the air. (also eliminates adjusting the lengths of the few jacks that hit the splice) I add a 2/ handle to them a ways down from the top to give a man a place to help lift them. One man handles from waist level at the tail, one at the ridge, and the third guy on the temporary handle. They go up pretty easy that way. The temp handle is the secret to handling those guys. The single straight long scarf cut is the secret for strength without scabs. You would be surprised how strong they are.
Edited 7/6/2005 8:58 pm ET by MRJALAPENO
Da***M.....are ya sure this isn't Fine Boatbuiding!
I guess, since a Hip is in some ways analogous to a non-bearing ridge, that boatbuilders scarf might be OK, but it'd make me nervous....guess that's why I don't do the Mc Mansion building thing.....
Splicing a long Hip like that, it will require a couple of support legs, otherwise it would look finer on a boat.
If I had a hip that long, I'd simply piece it together with 14' pieces and support each joint with some sort of hip block. I wouldn't even bother trying tg put the thing together on the ground.
blue
Blue,
<!----><!---->
I’ve pieced them like that when I was young before I figured out that that all you need is a long handle. Too slow for me these days! Not only do we put them up like I said, I have a string line on them before we place them. Brace the sag out; straighten them with jacks to the line. Faaast! Very fast and safe too, if done with caution.
<!---->
You know Blue, when you come up with a neat trick to quickly manhandle a large rafter like that it makes you feel like your pulling a rabbit out of the hat. There is pride in doing something magical in a sense. Doing something most others would not attempt. Like the table framing methods you employ. Gutsy, but smart, very experienced, made to look easy because it really is.
<!---->
I want to emphasize that I proceed with caution and it takes coordination between the two or three guys making the lift. We’re only lifting one end so it’s not that bad. I would hate to hear that someone read this here and got hurt trying it. I’m not recommending that anyone go out and start doing it this way. The first time I attempted it was the hardest and they have gotten easier since. I had to learn how to do it. Started small and worked up. If others think it is dangerous to do and would rather not, I’m in complete agreement. It is dangerous to them and they shouldn’t do it.
<!---->
Anyway, I’ve got enough of them under my belt these days to get them up smoothly.
<!---->
Mr. Jalp. “The Smooth Framer”
I'm not thinking that it is dangerous Mr Jalapeno, I'm just thinking that you need three people to do a one-man job.
Nothing burns me up faster than seeing two guys doing a one-man job! If I saw three guys on that job, I'd have to do a head first dive off the peak.
blue
Input, please. Did I blow it?
I've been following along on this thread and wonder if I made a mistake on my own carport.
Carport has a total span of 32' and a slope of 1.5/12. There are beams at each end and one splitting the span into 14' and 18' sections (beams are four #1 doug fir 2x12s with 10" galv flashing between the 2xs and they have through bolts every 8' where there are splices in two of the four 2xs. Splices are over the 6x post tops.) I used 2x12 rafters 16"oc. The rafters pass by each other at the center ends and lap about a foot. I put 2x12 solid blocking between each pair of rafter ends. There is 2x3 skip sheeting and steel roofing. The rafters have those diamond shaped metal ties on each end of each rafter.
With the nailed lap, the solid blocking, the 2x3 nailed into the top of each pair of rafter ends and the metal ties, it never occured to me that perhaps I should have some additional splicing material to, as I think someone said "keep the rafters from sliding down hill".
Whaddya think, framers?
"A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel." Robert Frost
Actually, I think this whole splicing thing is a been made a little over complicated. The important thing is to have adequate support under the rafters at the appropriate points to maintain the span of each member to it's designed, or engineered length, given pitch and loads.
I was thinking about this the other day and remembered a cattle loafing shed I helped on years ago....had about a 2/12 pitch and, if I recall was about 120' wide and some 500' long. So the overall rafter lengths had to be 60+'....but there were several rows of supporting posts and beams to support the continuous rafters. breaking them up into what were probably 16' lengths.
How they were spliced, I don't recall, but the structure is still in use today, some 25 years later.
You are prabably OK b ut I wouldn't let the snow pile up too deep on it. The problem is not one of the rafters sliding downhill. It is that you have a sixteen foot rafter spanning 18' if I understood you rightly. That means that the only thing supporting half the load of that section of roof is the nails in that little bitty one foot overlappping splice because the beam is moved on down a couple more feet from the end of that rafter. so you are asking that each splice and what - ten nails or so? to suport about 586.67 pounds figuring for a forty pound live load and a fifteen pound dead load.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
No no no. The longer 18' section is cut out of 20' 2x12 - 16" oc and the shorter 14' section is cut out of 16' 2x12 - 16"oc. The lap is over the beam.
Thus, the max carried is the section with 18' span - 2x12 doug fir (mostly #1) - all on 16" centers.
I may have made my description hard to understand by talking about the make up of the beams when my real question was about whether or not there was a problem with the rafters wanting to slide downhill. As I think about it now, a 1.5/12 slope doesn't have much of a force toward making it slide."A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel." Robert Frost
You are fine. I pictured two sixteen footers sidelapped with the beam at 18'
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
sorry it's taken so long to get back to everyone but here's my report of how things went. it all went very well. the bearing walls we put on the cieling joists to catch our 2 PIECE RAFTERS created a loft area that paid additional moneyon the job. in reality though it just really paid for extra expense of cutting 2 roofs. but everybody is happy and i'm blessed to have fellow brother carpenters who are willing to give me thier advice, opinions and even admonitions. may God bless you all
Blue,
<!----><!---->
If I saw you working alone on a job like that I’d probably ask, “What are you doing Blue? Working with all your friends again?”
Edited 7/10/2005 8:04 pm ET by MRJALAPENO
yes but i'll have to frame them just like i 've had to in the past.beneath the rafters. maybe i just should have asked for everyones method of making extremely long rafters. to use plywood or the same stock to cover the splice on both sides. Albert,Your real question is what's the best way to splice 33' rafters together and then your going to frame the roof and install a bearing wall underneath, Right?Well that's ridiculous and I'm sorry I'm not going to tell you what you want to here because what this builder wants you to do is wrong.i've used the method of basically cutting 2 rafters alongside eachother sitting on another wall but that's not what this guy wants. he wants to go cheap and i'm not going along for that rideHow is that going cheap when you have to go back and put bearing walls underneath 33' spliced rafters. Are you going to notch the rafters with a making a birdsmouth or put the top plates on and angle? Is he paying you by the hour? The way he wants you to do it is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of before and the biggest waste of time and will cost you so much extra time and labor to do it this way. It makes no sence at all. It's like saying nail all your rafters in at the top plates without a ridge and then going back to slide a ridge in later or splaicing 32' ceiling beams together and then nailing them on the top plates and then framing the walls underneath later, it makes no sence.Sorry Albert, but when it comes to structural stuff like this any professional would not do it and calling this builder an Idiot is appropriate in this case because what he wants you do wrong.You want to splice 33' rafters and kill yourself raisng them up then do like I used to do for hips and valleys 20 years ago before we had microlams. Come in 2' and down center and make an arrow and cut that out and then scribe it onto the next piece and cut that out and then slide them into eachother and put 3/4 plywood glued on each side.You should really explain to this builder how much extra work that's involved when doing it this way when you can easily figure out the rise of the bearing wall at it's point and even use that as a scaffold and then cut the first set of rafters and then figure out the rise of the ridge and cut the second set of rafters to the ridge and you and your crew can all work safe and like gentlemen. If he doesn't like that and you gave him a price then tell him to go pound salt.If your doing it by the hour then it will cost him all the extra Bullsh!t time.I'm just trying to help you do the right thing here. Remember when you ask a question the answers that you get you might not want to here but they could be the right ones.Joe Carola
Edited 7/6/2005 1:01 am ET by Framer
Why not do two ridge, one at middle? I don't know the width of the building, but a glulam might work for him.
If it's in the middle it's a beam or a knee wall. A ridge is always at the ridge.
I stand corrected. Now, How about it?
"Why not do two ridge, one at middle? I don't know the width of the building, but a glulam might work for him."He could put a gluelam or microlam if there's no bearing wall underneath. We do that all the time but that would have to be engineered.Here's a darwing I did a couple years ago for someone, different situation but similar using two sets of rafters and triple microlams.Joe Carola
Exactly. Much better than splicing.
Joe,
I drove by a house (actually townhouses that are all connected. I think there were 4 or 6) that used I-joists on the roof @ 12"oc. They were about 20' long hangered into a glulam ridge at the top and then one at the bottom, and then another batch from the lower "ridge" to the plates or valleys. I'll try and get over there to get some more shots and post them here, but it is was really cool looking, but there were just pallets of hangers and hardware for all the beams and I-joists.
I was just remembering - the longest pitched roof I can think of doing was 52 feet. I was putting the steel roofing on it.
I know it was done with TJIs but can't remember whether there was an intermediate Glulam or not. And I can't recall the size of the TJIs either.Why did I mention this?
Darned if I know. CRS
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Albert,Here's a drawing of how I used to splice hips/valleys. I would probably use 8' rips of plywood on both sides, but who knows.Joe Carola
I may be too late; sounds like you already started this job by now, but it would really help if you could draw or describe better what you are doing. Are the rafters only supported at the ridge and bottom ends, 33' apart, with no other bearing? I didn't understand your idea of placing two side by side and cutting unless there is another bearing wall somewhere. If there is, I still think whoever suggested lapping two 20 footers may have a better and more structurally sound idea. If no intermediate bearing, why can't you use TJI's or glulams? Hope we haven't totally alienated you so you don't come back, but I think folks were afraid you were doing something unsafe and didn't want to sugar-coat it for fear you'd miss the point!
We simply don't understand why you call these 33' rafters, when they actually break on (I hope) a bearing wall.
Where the two rafters meet at the bearing wall, you have several methods of making the lap.
Hard to help without more specific info.The heck, you say?
Heck Yeah, It's hard to say. (Love that Tag line) <!----><!---->
A 33' 8/12 rafter will have a run of approximately 27’ 5-1/2” and a rise 18’3-5/8”. <!---->
Now, what was the question again?<!---->
OK, You've been doing this since '81 and still consider splicing rafters midspan with no support under them? is that what you are saying? if so, that narrows the choices down
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
and still consider splicing rafters midspan with no support under them?
Not that much worse than too many of the hip rafters I've seen, come to think about it.
Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
From what I read on Albert, he's saying that the builder wants to him to splice the rafters totaling 33' and then go back and put the bearing wall underneath which is ridiculous. With that said if he's going to do that the splice should be over the bearing wall.The first set of rafters could be 18' and the second set 15' but wherever the bearing wall is that's where this splice should be as ridiculous as it is.I framed a house about 18 years ago 40' x 80' gable with the rafters running the 80' way so that was a 40' run with a 5/12 pitch 43' 4" without the overhang.I had two bearing walls to sit 3 sets of rafters on. First set of rafters sat on a wall about in 16' from the outside wall and the 2nd set of rafters sat on the foyer in which was about 17' from the first leaving me with a 7' run in the Foyer to the center of the ridge. They all had birdsmouths on them. This is basic framing without using I-joists.He should make his splice above the bearing wall.Joe Carola
Edited 7/6/2005 12:41 pm ET by Framer
I think the responses have overlooked the obvious.
The original poster is not really going to have a 33' rafter. He will have two rafters that equal 33'.
My response is this: splice them anyway you want but put a bearing wall, or bearing snow brace, under the splice in a way that carries each section of the roof.
It might be easer to put the bearing wall in first, but then again it might be easier to do it later, depending on your carpentry skills and techniques.
You will not be able to adequately splice a 33' 2x8 and prevent it from deflecting in a very substantial manner. It will be like trying to stand up limp spaghetti.
Have fun!
blue
Blue,Your last post is baisically the samer as my last post. I know it's a rafter that totals 33' and I said to him to brake the splice on the bearing wall. So if he does that he will have a 33' rafter. He must have a 27'5-1/2" run if his rafter totals 33' but somewhere in there he has a bearing wall that he can break he span on.Still framing it like what he's saying is ridiculous and yes it can be done later but I don't care what technique you have or how fast you are, you know this situation with this limp spaghetti rafters it's not going to be faster Blue.Joe Carola
his mention of any bearing wall under the spaghetti rafters was almost an after thought - oh yeah, sure - I'll put in something like that more or less kinda sooner or later. Notice that he can't say where the wall will go, only that he might build one later on. The reason I get so flamed up about stuff like this is that I see the HOs later, when they call me to fix the work hacks do like this. I tore down one to rebuild that had 26' rafters to a ridge that was not ecven structural. The rafters were spliced the way you drew but with an eight penny nail in each point and side scabs only occasionally. He had used ( wasted) 14' lumber to do it. The resulting 'roof' had a three inch sag in it, and walking on it reminded me of native blanket rituals AKA trampolines. Building like this guy wants to do is equal to stealing money from people because they do not get what they think they are paying for.
Apparantly in this case, the owner is party to the cause, but no carpenter with a conscience could possibly go at this roof this way.OK Venting over. I feel better now.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin,I know by now that things are done differently all over the country but still when people ask questions like this or other structural questions it just gets to me because we can't do anything here in NJ structural without Architectural or Engineered plans. It's either these people are doing it without no permits or their states they can do whatever the hell they want to do.What this guy is asking is a complete joke. If a builder told me to do something like this even if he was paying me by the hour I would tell him jump off a bridge but I would never be in this situation because we all work from plans. That's why so many times when I here questions like these I ask what the plans say and most of the time they wont respond back.But I'll try and offer what I think is right so maybe some of these people are not dumb enough to do something that can kill someone.If this guy has a bearing wall underneath all he has to do is give us the measurement to it and then I can draw a picture for him need be and give him the rise of the wall and the rafter length for the first rafter and then continue from there.If he doesn't respond back I'll know he has no intention of putting a wall under the rafters that sits on the bearing wall and he's going to do what he wants anyway. Permits required or not no matter what state your from people should be smart enough to check with an Architect or Engineer to be safe instead of ripping out a lally column in the basement because they want more room or taking out a 16' bearing wall holding up the second floor walls,ceiling,rafters and layon valley from a gable addition.OK Venting over for me now too. Joe Carola
On the other side of that, I have almost never lived and worked where structural engineering was required to get a permit. But gimpy work like this rarely happens because word gets around.
The good book says that with some men, their sins go before tham, and with other men, their sins follow after them.
Reputaion means a lot in both our worlds of building.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin
may I ask a question in the context of your discussion with Framer?
From time to time I've come across the requirement that a "shear connector" be inserted between the members and the material forming the splice.
In your experience, and Framer's too, are these connectors necessary or desirable or do they date from a time whne splices were bolted together?
Ian
Not much experience with such. If I saw it in an engineered plan, I wouold ask the engineer for an indoctrination. Learn something new every day
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Blue, thanks for your civility. Looks like Albert's been run out of his own post. Too bad, it seemed he could have used some help.
So you noticed he needs help too?
Note that he isn't run out. He is still reading these so maybe there's a chance he can learn something yet if he wants to but his refusal to provide the basic information needed to help him suggests otyherwise.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
i had a long talk with the builder and told him how it was gonna be if he wanted me to continue with the frame. i told him what i would do and would not do. i explained all this politely and courteously and would not budge from the stand i was taking . in the end everything is going to be alright. many thanks to everyone who voiced opinions and suggestions and may God be with you all as you do your work to give you even more skill and efficiency that your businesses may prosper to new heights.
Albert
Nice final post, though I hope it isn't. I'd like to see photos of what you finally do! Good luck to you--sounds like you are trying to do the right thing, but all of us are kind of in the dark here. (Being a "God-fearing" man, it sounds like you are refusing to do anything cheap and dangerous. Good for you!)
That's the talk - now walk the walk.I'm curious what exactly you told him, but I guess it's none of my buisiness
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
is there another choice I might have missed?
Dunno.
I keep getting a 12" OC spacing for either 2x12 or 12" deep TJI for the 27'-2" span (33' @ 8/12) when I look at the tables.
Why do I keep mentally seeing a truckload of 16' 2 x 8 marked to hit a top plate around 24" OC? My mind's eye pictures no ceiling joists, either (else, why the long clear span). I'm not going to go look up rafters also bearing a ceiling (or bead board).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
albert.
Are these 33 foot long rafters going to be clear span with no intermediate support ?
carpenter in transition