A few of these threads have got me thinking….. Have many of you lost alot of money to folks for not paying?
To date aftert all these years I have only lost $640. I have been very lucky!
Back in the mid 90s, I lost the money from a group who refused to pay for some countertops I built as two folks told me to use one color and signed the agreement and then once installed, the other two members of the group said since they didn’t get to sign the color choice approval so they were not paying. They demanded new tops in THEIR color choice or they weren’t paying for them.
We went back and forth and they held strong on refusing to pay. I was not going to invest any more just to get the original $640. so I told them I would rip out the counters, take them with me and they would never see me again. They challenged me and said “You wouldn’t dare”.
As they watched in horror I took out my DeWalt cordless drill and removed the tops, put them in my truck, mockingly shook their hands and thanked them for their business, told them to please never call me again and drove away.
I was mad at the time but now its a great story to tell….especially when some folks will ask you what you do to get your money if folks don’t pay and if you file a lien or stuff like that? I laughingly tell the story and then at the end, pick up my DeWalt and pull the trigger a few times revving it up.
They laugh but do it in a sheepishly, fearful kind of way.
Replies
Never had a situation where we didn't work something out. The only time I wasn't happy with the result was when I wrote a bill down $3500 of what we were charging in order to save something. There was clearly a lack of communication on both our parts so we agreed to split the difference on the extra's. Ironically we've since worked for the same couple and everything seems to be fine.
I did have one guy ask what happens if he didn't pay.
I said I'd burn the house down.
He laughed, I kept a straight face, he asked if I was kidding. I said I didn't know it hadn't happened before, he laughed a bit more, I didn't. He went to get his check book.
The guy was a complete pain in the #### to work for and I wasn't in the mood for joking but I guess he took me serious enough to get the check book.
all told-in 21 years i think i am out less than 5K
the first one was a fence-she still owes me about $900
about 15 years later- she dropped a can of soup on her foot- took to her bed- the foot turned gangrenous-and had to be AMPUTATED
the second one was a lawyer- I did a minor roof repair for him-warned him of what else needed to be done- he wouldn't take my advice-and then looked me in the eye and said" I am not paying you for THAT repair either-what are you going to do about it?
since it was less than $100-not much I was going to do-but all these years later- I am still alive and healthy-and 3-4 years later he was dead and buried
the last one was a roof- the only job I have ever walked off of.-we did the front of the house-just fine-we did the attached garage and breezeway--he started in on us because he wanted us to put back on TWO layers of shingles so the new roof thickness would match the old siding!- he simply could wrap his head around why that wasn't going to happen and he wouldn't listen to reason-we hadn't even got to the hard part of the roof yet.- He had paid a 50% deposit-he got 2/3 of the roof done. I paid my worjkers, paid my suppliers-anmd took a bath on the rest.
all told- less than 5K- and I learned somnething from each of the situations- I am sure that 5K has saved me many times over the money lost.
stephen
Stephen...And who says Karma is not real????? Wow!
A friend and I were just talking about that kind of stuff and Madoff's name came up. Nothing like ripping folks off for all they have and him enjoying the benefits only to spend the last years of his life in jail being someone's "friend". Yikes!
Mike I have been not paid in excess of 200K. Now I won't go into the details here, but it did result in the business going BK in 1991!
Was not an individual, was a company that was run by a "crook".
I'll pay, I'll pay, I'll pay. Just tell me where to send the check!DonDon Reinhard
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"
the only job I have ever walked off of.-we did the front of the house-just fine-we did the attached garage and breezeway--he started in on us because he wanted us to put back on TWO layers of shingles so the new roof thickness would match the old siding!-
I'm kinda lost on this..... how does a thicker roof "match the old siding"?
Is this where the lower roof goes up against a gable wall? (i.e. the lower breezeway roof) The siding went down to the thicker multi-layer old roof "height"..... then a total roof tear-off and now the new roof is below the old siding height on the wall?
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
the roof in question was a pent roof on the front of a garage. similar in configuration to a porch roof sloping AWAY from the wall. aluminum siding had been installed at some point in time AFTER 2-3 layers of shingles were installed. After the roof tear-off-and a single layer of NEW shingles installed there wasa visible GAP between the bottom of the siding and the shingles. Of course- an apron flashing across the front was going to take care of that- but the homeowner just wasn't "getting it"-and instead becoming escalatingly abusive. i mentally debated just putting on an additional layer of shingles-after all we were only talking abouit a bundle and a half or so
HOWEVER
we still had the back of the roof on the house to do-which had issues of it's own to resolve-and I was positive that If I caved into his moronic suggestion on the pent roof on the front of the garage- I would be totally screwed after doing the back of the house. this took place maybe 10-15 years ago I think I would not ever get caught in this situation now- because i think I would be able to spot"nutjob" during the initial meeting and would never get involved in the project in the first place-and IF i DID get involved- i think I am much better in finessing the customer than I was then.
stephen
Mike: I do glass & granite, but since 1992, have been stiffed only once & that was for $35. I live in Atl, the client in Dallas, TX. I sent her a letter, including 26 cents. Told her to take it to the Home of the Pot, buy a brick & throw it through her front window. Called it my "Do it yourself collection system." A week later rec'd a check in the mail.
From that point on, when the subject turns to paying, I tell people I have 1500 bricks in my back yard & a trailer to haul them & that's probably more bricks than they have window panes. I also tell them my other story. Never a problem - but a bunch of laughs.
Don
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"
sold a bussiness 10k, got screwed for every nickel. have a judgemnet for 17k plus interest. anyone interested in buying it for 100.00
the older i get ,
the more people tick me off
lets just say...
my CPA tells me...
"son if they can't screw you they need to get out of the screw'n business"
I can honestly say I've been screwed out of millions... BUT I've gone into alot of situations that were high risk... I knew this on the front end... many time things were not all they were presented to be...
BUT I have also been in the same situations where everything did go very right and was rewarded for my risk... I could have told you about "blue tooth" 12 years ago... just one of my good deals..
I have never lost a nights sleep over money... of all the things we seem to hold dear.. it is the one thing that is easy to replace and has zero feelings for you...
it's all about balance... and walk'n away with a good story...
some things i don't even count... like rent thats never paid... If a guy has paid on time and gets into a jam I'll let him ride me for a few months just in case things turn around and he comes out of it... I don't want to be the guy that kicks em when they are down... all i ever ask is "keep me posted on how things are going and if you believe you'll be able to make it" no one has ever trashed one of my places when they left... and many have sent me checks years later... others never have...
p
I think only once. 40K. I don't count the small stuff after that.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
PROUD MEMBER OF THE " I ROCKED WITH REZ" CLUB
I've only been bit hard once.........
Friend (was his best man when he got married) wanted me to build him and his wife a house...gave me a print, I gave him a price. Land that they were looking at got tied up in legal battle w/ town....14 mos. later it becomes ready to build on... I tell friend that most prices on labor are the same, but I should run new #'s on material. He tells me that they were pre-approved for twice what they are borrowing, he trusts me, just start.
We drill the well....
540 feet deep, 1.5 GPM...We hydrofrac(w owners ok) $1,800...another .5 gpm...Total 9K....Well allowance of 5K
We dig foundation....Hit ledge...Blast....Haul out rubble, etc. Extra 5k...
Start frame on house, sheet goods jump an average of $6 a sheet in about 5 days.(summer of 99, I'm sure some folks remember) I ask friend if he wants new price...He says just bill the overage above what I figured for frame material.... ends up being about 5K. I'm fine with this....
Start septic, hit ledge in field. Big problem...House is within the critical resource area of a resevoir. Seller of the lot paid for original septic plan. He took 9 mos to draw it. Wife wants him to draw new plan for free. I want them to use my engineer, and get it done quick.....House is framed at this point, flatwork done, rough electric and plumbing. She says no, we wait for original engineer to do new plan, get approved by state. We agree to stop further const on house, til sep system is settled
I do another custom, to the point where I'm doing the finish on it. Their free engineer takes 7 months to get plan approved....She calls, ok we can start again...I say, ok, I'll have the excavator start the system, but I'll be 3-4 weeks because I'm in the middle of finishing this house. She freaks. I started theirs first, I should drop everything, they've waited, blah, blah, blah........ I explain that it wouldn't be fair to the people I was building the other house for, etc, etc.......
Engineer designs a ridiculous system to satisfy ridiculous demands from DEM. Tank with aerator, Elgin mat system.....All tod w/ blasting and additional exc work due to changes in system, excavation and site work is $46K. I originally budgeted 35K based on excavators bid, but no allowance in contract
House is a week from being finished, He tells me they're getting divorced, she's been bangin' a guy in the apartment complex she manages....They owe me all the extras, and some of the original price. He tells me that she's threatened to take him to the cleaners if he writes a check to pay.......I talk to a lawyer, can lien the house, but they have option to out $ in escrow til settlement, better to go to arbitration...
We go. Arbitrator compliments me on my self written contract, gives me overage on well, and blasting. I eat it on all other additional $ because I got nothing in writing, just the promise from a lifelong friend that he'd cover it........
I eat it to the tune of about 15K, and a lot of labor. I talked to all of my subs, explained the situation, told them I'd pay them somehow, they all stood by me. I had guys that I was into for dough doing new jobs for me so I could stay afloat. Everyone told me to file bankruptcy, wipe the slate clean.....I couldn't do that to guys that had done work for me for years...Took an e-line on my house, paid em all eventually..........
Funny, it still makes me sick to my stomache to tell that story. Losing a friend that I'd hung out with for 20 years hurt the most, far more than the $.
I will end this tale by saying this; I blame myself for letting it happen....Never let anyone (even friends and family) get to far ahead of you on dough, and get it alllll in writing.
Bing
2nd edit to add: This was during a pretty good boom time here. Owner sold the house shortly after the arbitration and split about 125K at the closing. I got zip. I did, however, get to warranty the house for a year, which had me back fixing a pipe 6 months later, on a house I got boned on. My plumber and I were actually laughing when we left there. He asked how much working there was going to cost him......
Edited 11/18/2009 7:58 pm ET by Bing187
Edited 11/18/2009 8:07 pm ET by Bing187
That hurts.
Cliffy
Yeah, but.....
It was a lesson learned....(albeit an expensive one, though not as bad as some of the other tales here...)
To bad business has to be that way. I learned the construction biz from a gentleman that had a sterling rep, never had a written contract on framing work, (over 1,000 houses over a 35 year stretch), and a silly simple one that he wrote for custom contract houses that he did. Worst lesson I learned from him was that he trusted everybody to treat him the way he treated people.....I did too, til that house. Now, my Mom has to give me a deposit and sign change orders...;)
He made a lot of money over the years, but he got burned out of a lot, too. He figured between his kids(10 from 2 marriages) and customers, about a mil over 40 years. Nice retirement he could have had....Instead he lives a comfortable life in a 10 year old ranch house, gets his Social security, and still frames houses at 73.....Pretty sad, compared to where he could be.
Bing
everytime I got burned, it was from a friend
I guess I've been lucky, live in a small town, never been burned. Had to wait a couple of months once. Now I teach three days at a college and the cheque goes in every 2nd Wednesday nite. That is sweet.
Have a good day
Cliffy
I have a theory........there are alot of people who are in this business who don't have a clue about anything but money. They mastermind new ways to take away what we have rightfully earned.
They mastermind new ways to take away what we have rightfully earned.I got friends like that. never held a job but always have money, basically use car saleman
It wasn't me but a very good friend of mine was trimming out houses for a builder. The first few houses went well then the builder got in a little financial trouble and stiffed my friend for for $5000.
He put a lien against the builder but knew he would never see the money so after he went fishing for bluefish he made a visit to the house and stuffed the cut up fish in some open stud bays and went around and cut all the coax and cat5 cables off flush in the boxes. I wonder how fast that house sold?
If you'd have titled this "How much have you screwed yourself out of?" I'd have more stories.
Or "How much have your friends screwed you out of?" I have more stories.
Only one that really stands out was a cashier's check the guy stopped payment on. Didn't know you could do that.
Took a partial payment on a bounced check once, guy made a partial payment and stiffed me for the rest.
Finally got pizzed and called the cops. Soon as I told the detective the guy's name he started laughing. That one didn't turn out too well either.
Joe H
Just found out about the cashier check myself, not the same way. Needed to order from a vender real quick, oofered a cashiers check, thaty said no, a money order for the same reason.
So basically, they wouldn't take a check from a bank, but 7-Eleven was ok! Go figure...
From what I've read you can make a helluva good likeness of a cashier's check or money order on the average color printer.
''From what I've read you can make a helluva good likeness of a cashier's check or money order on the average color printer.''
You don't even know me and yet you've read I'm artist on the color printer...I guess the gig is up!
Look at that, I elicited a confession in one post.
It's like an episode from dumbest crooks...can we split the reward?
just write someone a check and they can empty your bank account. All your numbers are on the check., acccount, routing, and bank number.
True. Surfin' for info on the net about a local bank and a news story came up about fraudulent use of their routing numbers...I think that was just with info from the banks site!
Sometimes I imagine what a great employee some of these crooks would make if they had the gumption to apply that ingenuity, goal oriented"work ethic" and general self started-ness to the legit work place...of course, part of their goal is to screw some one over I'm sure.
I know one of those crooks.
He's smart as hell & works like a beaver, BUT, there's something about being just a little over the line that attracts him.
I'm guessing he could be a multi zillionaire if he would just stay on this side of the line.
Joe H
In a similar fashion, sometimes I take on these commercial jobs that I don't have deep enough pockets to finance, the owners will tell me They can do quick turn around on draws and then I get hung up in the middle on waiting six weeks for progress payments that then hold up lead items (I know, read the contract...duh)
By the end of the job I've spent so much time and energy creatively 'surviving' that I think if I could just finally get my ducks in a row and use that time and energy making money instead of filling sand bags, I'd probably be retired in 5 years!
I know a guy who stole 4 million dollars like that.
Yowza! Where's he at now...8' by 8' with a bunk mate?
Still pales to the crooks walking away with 80 mil after running our financial establishments into the ground.
Personally, I think that's the main problem with our society right now is there is so much graft and fraud in the highest echelon of our populace that the morally questionable can easily justify their crimes.
If you don't get caught it's OK. It becomes an acceptable business risk. The only gauge is whether you made a bundle, no need to worry about the cost to others.
I'll go to the grave with a clear conscience though, and that is truly enough for me.
Well stated.... crime is acceptable business risk.
He did less than 3 years in a low-mid FCI, pretty good wages i'd say.
He didn't get to keep the loot did he?
He spent it before he was ever caught on houses and lots. Whorehouses and lots of whiskey.
Surely he had to pay it back?
they can only force your to pay while you are on supervised release. (parole, but not exactly)
Out of 900,000+, I paid back 2,000, my wife 10,000. We sold a house and she had to pay, that was the full amount she was ordered to pay. I didn't pay my total, which was 3,600.
LOL yeah people do all the time...when they closed a local casino i found a box of unprinted cashiers checks... I had one of those old check printers where you pull the handle... i use to carry around a two million dollar check made out to me... would show it to people and tell them i hit a jackpot at the casino...so I get what could be stupid... and make a few for friends so they too can carry around a check for millions... then started think'n ..what if someone tries to cash em? might not be a good thing for me:)but it was kinda fun at the time
p
yep i got stiffed on an RV i sold on ebay... dude stopped payment on a cashiers check.... he'd paid 50% then paid the balance @ pick-up cost me 10kfun for me :)
p
Dude, that sucks! Gettin' us every which way, breakin into our trucks, raisin our taxes, bailing out our banks. Just tucked in my 2 year old got up crying, sometimes I just have to stare at him a while to remember the rest is just back ground noise....
sometimes I just have to stare at him a while to remember the rest is just back ground noise....Exactly...
some things matter... some things don't
when you learn which is which... you then smile a lot more...most of the posts on this thread... people have lost time more so than money... and time is really what you are selling as a trades person... "your time is your product" you awake to another day and hope you are wiser... but... for me when i get home and see a few toys in the yard... I find it very easy to leave the rest behind... I've never lost a nights sleep over something I could not change...p
I really like your attitude. The older I get I think more like you do. I just wish I had started earlier but better late than never right.
Back when my testosterone was high- no wait- when I HAD testosterone i used to over think things. Now I hardly think at all.roger
Whats the point of a cashiers check then?
Simply to ensure sufficent funds?
I designed a set of historical steps and handrail for the entrance to a home for seven grand. Got a down payment and a draw, but even though the steps were perfect, the lawyer client knew I wasn't licensed in Michigan at the time and had no obligation to pay me. I won in arbitration, he appealed in court and prevailed for $1,500.00.
Kowboy
two people daddy always said never to work for, a preacher and a lawyera lawyer find a way to keep from paying you and a preacher dont believe he ought to pay you to begin with
two people daddy always said never to work for, a preacher and a lawyer
I find that the lawyers in my customer base are some of the best-paying customers that I have. One is a very busy PI lawyer, and if I don't leave with a check I have always had one in the mail within 48 hours. Of course, they're not all the same, but I really don't have any lawyers that are slow-pay or no-pay.
I don't have any preachers in my custome list, so I can't comment on that. My worst payers seem to be those who run small manufacturing or distribution businesses. I figure that they're used to getting 30-60-90 terms with their suppliers, and think that everybody else can live that way...
Bob
we got one contractor, a big general, very big, a lot of work. He pays 180 out. but its always there and good.
He pays 180 out. but its always there and good.
Sounds like you get regular work from this customer, and if it works for both of you, that's good. For the most part, though, my customers are the end users, and if I hear from them again at all, it might not be for years. I have to treat each job as if it's the one and only, and get paid as promptly as I can.
"we got one contractor, a big general, very big, a lot of work. He pays 180 out. but its always there and good"
Thats terrible, I consider that abuse of power because they can.....
We also run a service business that provides regularly scheduled services to bussiness's......We have some large corporations that want to pay at 90 days plus..They way I look at it, its like giving them 90 days service for free because the only way you will ever get their account current is if you lose them as a customer!
It still makes me mad, but we live with a few of them...BUT, I'll charge them more where I can to make up for it.
"we got one contractor, a big general, very big, a lot of work. He pays 180 out. but its always there and good"
'Thats terrible, I consider that abuse of power because they can.....'
It sounds like BB's company is happy to work for them with those terms.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
is happy to work for them dont have much choice
one of the worst people to work for is Military contractors. the military government really believe they can hold your money as long as they want. we did some katrina work, we still owed 50k and its been four years.
"They way I look at it, its like giving them 90 days service for free"Its a business decision. You figure the cost of capital and you charge for it and make the same markup that you would if it was a box of nails. You also add for the risk. If the companies are bankable, you get loans from your back using the receivables as collateral. I've never played with the big boys like that but I'm small potatoes.http://thewoodshedtavern.com. = no peer mods!
"If the companies are bankable, you get loans from your back using the receivables as collateral."
Problem that we've had in my business (Industrial Equipment) is that anything over 60 days, the bank considers worthless.
Some of our biggest customers pay in 90 days, and we simply factor the extra carrying costs into our pricing, but the bank doesn't like to see stuff out there for 90 days.
If it becomes a real problem, you could factor the invoices.
I'd love to have people stringing me out 90 days at 18% interest. I'd just keep sending 'em statements with new higher amounts due. That's what credit card issuers do, and they seem to do pretty well at it, barring a global financial meltdown.
All is well as long as you have the cash to keep going. I doubt that BB's contractor pays them any interest. They know about it ahead of time and most likely factor that into the bid.
18% when they are paying less than 2% for their money seems obscene doesn't it? I had a CC raise my interest to 35%. After calming down, I called and questioned it. Everybodys went to 35% and 3 months later they went out of business.
Just so you don't think I am completely mad, I never used the card, just opened it to increase my credit line so my credit score improved! I know, it's complicated, but it did work!
Around 10 grand. All from friends and family. Well so called friends. Lesson learned, never do business with friends and family. Stinks being taken advantage of. Nice guys finish last when it comes to friends and family!
a lost $$$$$ and screwed too story......... not me
two construction buddies comeup with a fast food idea after renovating several restaurants, this is in the D.C. area. So they put up everything they got, renovate an old building themselves, and open up this eating establishment. Similar to Starbucks, but more breakfast food.
Place is a success, so they run the place for awile, borrow some money and open up asecond place. In a few years they have a small chain of them in the DC,VA and,MD, area. They continue to grow. One day, discussing their success with a business broker, the broker says" hey, you guys could sell this business and retire". So they offer the chain up for sale.
Along comes the Coca-cola CO. They offer what amounts to ten million to the guys. After all loans paid,fees, comissions, costs of inventorying( selling a business can be complicating), etc, and et cetera, they would get five million apiece for everything, lock stock, and barrel. Heres your money,sign this covenant not to compete, and go your own way.
They decide to hold out just a little and see what else they may be offererd, lo and behold another offer is presented:
Company "XYZ" says.. "Coca-cola, wasn't too honest with you in telling you what this business is REALLY worth". Their purchase"package" amounts to TWENTY million . TEN million apiece, except that it's paid like this. One million immedeatly, then nine million in company issued stock, payable over sevaral years. Holding company"xyz" is going to take the food chain public. Part of the deal includes "must be availible for consultation and training new managers". A common thing in selling a business. The guys take it.
Things are screwed up off the git go, the public offering didn't raise what was estimated, the business sales slowed(probably because of chainged eating habits of the public), competition from other growing restaurants that were copying the business, etc, the share price plummetts. Company "xyz" sells the chain (for a song), reneges on the stock to the guys, and heres the good part, SUES them for everything they paid the guys, because they claimed they didn't consult with them properly, including their court costs, and WIN.
The guys end up being a couple million in the hole apiece.
LOL....your story takes the cake....no..wait...it takes the bakery!
I just build in 1-2% Bad Debt into our sales prices. That way I don't get mad at anyone for not paying. Last 2 years I have taken out about 2-2.5%. 10-15k/year Bad Debt. 2007 was about 7/10ths of one percent. Probably about the same 10-12k.
That said we have one builder in a lien situ for 14k. With fees that will go over 20k. And one small claims issue for about $685.
Here's some of mine.
My high school woodshop/construction teacher turned general contractor stiffed me on t/m extras. refused to pay the time to repair for reworking their jacked up stuff. Client was a church who refused to help me collect. Their laywer told me it wasn't their problem even though they owed him money. $2,000
general contactor(Very wealthy wife)who holds Bible studies w/ a prominent Socal church in their home $3,500
a kitchen remodel where the husband got caught cheating, Neither would pay and I never finished the job $7-10k
Chiropractor who thought his time was worth WAY more than mine and he even billed my insurance company. $1,500
Lots of free, "charity" work that is more fullfilling than anything. $-priceless
Yup, happened to me twice back about 20 yrs ago, when I had a landscape business. I did quite a few pretty good size residential jobs (75K - 200k range).
One of the two times :
One guy (a homebuilder actually, building subdivisions), I did the landscape work on his own personal house to the tune of about 90K. Job goes great, the property looks fantastic, and the guy is thrilled, ...and I got paid. Immediately he decides he wants a bigger house and puts his place up for sale. The same day a neighbour walks by, sees the for sale sign, and buys the house that evening. I see builder a couple days later.. and he thanks me again and says the house sold in large part because of the landscape, and he got his asking price which he had priced high. He says I will be doing the work on his new house.
About a year later, we are doing his new much bigger house. (this time job is about 170k). Some pretty amazing projects as part of it. One part of it : The guy wants big rocks.. so I arrange a convoy of 3 big flatbed tractor trailer trucks, a large crane truck, and a large excavator on a float truck, and the whole convoy and I travel about 70 miles away to an old granite quarry that I sourced. We dig out 6 huge moss covered granite rocks (each tractor trailer could only carry 2 rocks). Whole convoy heads back.. lots of work....and big rocks become part of the landscape on his new house.
Anyway..lots of other stuff done, and whole job is complete. He says he is thrilled with the work, but he had not made a couple of the final progress payments (he kept saying next week), so once job is complete he still owed me 45K. For many months afterwards he kept telling me next week... or would not take my calls... In the end he says come and see me to get paid. I get there.. and he tells me he will be paying me only 15K, and says times are tough right now, that's all he has... and I am lucky to be getting the 15K. After much freaking out.. he hands me a paper to sign that I am accepting a final check for 22K and nothing more, or my alternative is to get nothing... and I can sue him for the whole amount.
I was still in my twenties at the time, and no way was I equipped to enter into a court battle, so out I go with a check for 22k and lost the other 23K. Needless to say that created some tough times and some bitterness for me for a while.
Wow, some real hard to read stories here!
I now know I have been VERY lucky!
I guess what it shows is many of us have lost money for being too trusting and doing what we promised to do! We finish a job even though payments are late and thats when we get burned. That stinks!
I guess you really do have to be a hard-nosed SOB and stick to your guns and just tell folks, "No money, no work".
what you do, when you frame a house you run a rope throught the framing, so if they pay you just cut the rope, if they dont pay you hook the rope to your truck and pull all the framing out the patio door.we had a concrete supplier, that did not get paid so they went and jack hammer the slab and got their concrete back
That's the way I do things too. I have actually done something similar, long story ,long time ago. Luckily the young lawyer I got was very good, he later became governor.
mike
I don't know about your cities, but here in Cleveland there's an article every Sunday in the newspaper about how to watch out for "dishonest contractors" just once I wish they'd print some of these stories!
Chuck
Gee, today seems to be designed to make mer recall Rush Limbaugh stories!
Rush tells the tale from back in his earlier, "nobody" days, when he was travelling cross-country for a job, and his POS car broke down. He was reassured by the relidious items on display at the garage, and parted with the very last of his cash to have a 'necessary' part ereplaced - a part that didn't exist. He got hustled.
For myself, it was the ever-devout 'family man' I had for a landlord once. He had me build a shed, made multiple assurances to pay for my time as well as materials. I billed him only for the materials - and never heard a peep over several years. When the time came to move, it was "what shed?" No problem ... the shed has a new home. I had built it with this contingency in mind. Doom on you, Dickie-boy.
More common is the situation where I bend over backwards to accomodate someone who has grossly misrepresented their situation ... pleading poverty when they are anything but poor, etc. I am beginning to understand what PT Barnum meant when he said 'never give a sucker an even break.'
I had an employer who asked me for a deposit on the equipment he was issuing me. I paid. When the time came to move on, he did all he could to avoid refunding the deposit. While I did eventually recover the money, my opinion of the man did a 180 right then. When I got my contracting license, he went to the top of my "do not bid" list. Not even for cash, in advance. Period.
Before I left Reno, I had a CUSStomer who seemed intent on being contrary. I could have simply walked out ... but that's not my style. Instead, I gave it my best, made sure I had fulfilled my part of the deal. I can sleep well at night, knowing that I was blameless in that mess. Some day, he will wake up to the fact that he's never been treated better .... and it's his loss. That day may not be far off, as he was intent on doing all manner of things in a deceitful manner; his house of cards will fail, the vultures will pounce, and he will know he was told in advance of what was necessary. (Since I left in August, his lies have cost him another $7000)
Had a pretty good size addition and remodel a few years back, that was to start the first of October. This project was intended to carry me through the winter. About two weeks before I started the job, I got a call to frame a house. The guy was desperate and said his contractor had backed out. Because I came highly recommended, he wanted me to do the job. I had to tell him I couldn't because of the Large addition, but the guy was relentless; talked me into looking at the plans and meeting with him. The plans were a simple cape cod cabin that was about 1800 square ft. I thought we could do it in about 2 1/2 weeks if the weather held, but I had to say no. He called me again and offered me $20,000 labor to do the job. Again, regrettably, I said no.
So, off I go to do the addition, and I was right, it took all winter. We ran into trouble in part of the house that wasn't to be demo'd or even touched by me for that matter. House was infested with bats and we ended up tearing the ceiling and insulation out of that part of the house. In the end I presented a bill for $16,000 for the additional labor and material, and I got exactly zilch.
I still had the basement in the new addition to pour, and siding to put on the detached garage. They wanted me to sign a contract stating that I would have these things done in a ridiculous time frame before I could get my money, that included the final draw and overages.
I refused to sign and they refused to pay. Before you say take them to court, she shares the same last name of most everyone that works at the county courthouse including; the sheriff and a magistrate. She is also the secretary for the prosecuting attorney, so what do you think my odds would have been.
I had paid all of my subs and local suppliers, but still owed Lowes a considerable amount of money. I called and informed them of my situation and they let me pay off the AR account a little at a time. It took me about 2 years to do so. This was 4 years ago that I started the project, and I have yet to recover. I turned down $20,000 for 3 weeks of work, to do a job that took 4 months at a loss of $20,000...OUCH! My dad, however, gave me some great advice after this. " Son, he said, if you're going to go broke, don't do it working."