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LOTS OF WATER!

| Posted in Construction Techniques on March 30, 2002 04:12am

I have a problem with our basement drain tile. Our home is only one and a half years old. When it rains, the water coming into the sump pump pours in. The pump itself is only off for about 5 seconds before it turns back on. On dry days, it hardly runs at all. I built my house myself and I am almost positve we did not break the tile. The gutters run into tile and not splash blocks. I also put some dye in the sump while it was running to see if it was recirculating with no such luck. Could the water table rise that quickly? To those of you who do excavating, your input would greatly be appreciated.

Jason

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  1. User avater
    rjw | Mar 30, 2002 01:29pm | #1

    "The gutters run into tile and not splash blocks"

    But where do the tiles go?

    Clean out the existing dye in the sump, put some of that dye (the commerical tracing dye tablets, I hope) into a 5 gallon bucket and pour it down a downspout.  Watch your sump.  Follow up with a hose running for a while into the downspout.

    I'll bet the water coming into the sump has recently been on your roof.

    Consider this: in a one inch rain, about 840 gallons will land on the roof of a 30' by 40' house.  Assume 4 downspouts.  Thats 210 gallons per downspout.  That's about 7 trashcans per downspout!

    1. Mooney | Mar 30, 2002 04:22pm | #2

      Sounds pretty normal to me. When its raining my sump runs the majority of the time if its heavy rain. You might try to landscape, or sink inground drainage pipes leading away from the house if you don't have anything to do. But at this point the only thing I would be thinking of is a larger pump.

      1. heck22 | Mar 30, 2002 04:33pm | #3

        I've got a question(holding hand up)-why would you run your roof downspouts into the drain tile?Sounds counter-intuitive to me....wouldn't you want to keep from introducing water into this area?Isn't the drain tile there to handle the water that may naturally occur at that depth and function to channel that water away from the basement?I always direct the roof water on my projects to the surface;either by running downspouts to their own drains and then to daylight,or to splashblocks.

        Maybe I'm just not understanding how these systems work....where I live,we get about 12" annually of rain,less in recent years-so moisture is not a big focus for us.what the heck was I thinking?

      2. Mooney | Mar 30, 2002 04:34pm | #4

        I wouldnt even be thinking about a larger pump now that I thought more on it. I just replaced my pump . {flooded basement as a result} Any way when I replaced the new pump at 11 pm in a lightening storm with the basement 4 inches deep and rising , I noticed that the pump removes water faster than it could run in the tile through four inch leach lines. Thats why your pump is cycling off and on. My it is a joy to hear one of those run now.

        1. Cornfed70 | Apr 02, 2002 05:44am | #5

          Maybe I missed something or maybe it's been awhile.  You said your gutters/downspouts drained into your tile/sump?  Last time we built a house the object was to keep the water on the outside falling away from the house.  We tiled the inside basement/foundation which ran into the sump, the sump ran into a french drain 10-15 feet from the house.  Then we tiled the outside of the foundation and that ran down a 30-40 trench into a french drain.  All downspouts were tiled and ran into seperate french drains.  The outside foundation after backfill had a pretty good slope on it.  This all might sound excessive (I dug most of the trenches and drains by hand) but the owner was very pleased with having one of the dryest basements in his neighborhood during a heavy rain.

          1. Joe1225d | Apr 02, 2002 06:26am | #6

            I well remember prolonged ice /rain storms complete with snow melt and power lines down. In other words going house to house with trash pumps and generators to pump severely flooded basements. If you rely on power transmission lines and constantly running pumps sooner or later you'll flood. Its a when, not if senario.

            joe d

          2. luvmuskoka | Apr 02, 2002 01:09pm | #7

            I agree with heck, I don't know if running the spouts through the house and into the sump was logical.

            I live in an area described geologically as a moraine, ( 40 miles south of Erie Pa.) very flat with sandy soil to about 6 feet, then clay, followed at about 10 feet by rock.  When I built my house I opted for a crawl space rather than a full basement after noticing the neighbors sump running constantly for a few days after a long rain. I caught a lot of flak from friends who thought I was cutting corners by building on a crawl. I don't think fully subterranian basements are quality living area anyway and I also think that they  eventually fail (with regard to moisture) in time. I opted  to spend the saved money, and then some, on an additional 3 bay detached garage with living area above. Just wondering if anyone else subsribes to my opinion.

          3. User avater
            jhausch | Apr 02, 2002 01:36pm | #8

            First of all, I agree with the others that think its a bit batty to run your gutters into your sump.  Water comes down to the sump, then up and out to where ever the sump outlet goes?!?!?  Would it be possible to put in a "Y" way out on the sump outlet line?  One leg would be coming up from the sump (with a low pressure check valve (flapper) thereon; the other coming down from the gutters.  If you can't make the change now, invest in a battery backed pump for Spring.

            I think that you are right about a basement not always being the best choice (for regions that generally always get them)  we are on a gently sloping lot on a lake.  We know that we can only dig down about 3-4', and would then have to backfill quite high to have a full stand up basement.  Other houses in the are have done this (as the old vacation cottages get turned into more permanent residences).  They look a little rediculous sitting up on their mini-hills

            I saw a great question a while back that asked about pouring the floor of a crawlspace-for easier repair/inspection access.  Some wiseguy answered back, "we do it all the time, we call them basements"  Anyhow, I was thinking; what if I put the majority of the house on a 3 or 4' crawl with a poured floor and put a couple of those mechanics wheeled stools (or creepers) in there to get around?  Then, by stepping up from the floor above the crawl for a floor above, but down from the crawl level for the floor below, I could have a partial walkout basement area on the side facing the lake.  I think this would create minimal disturbance to the site.  I just need to draw it out and verify that I am not makeing the footing too complicated.Steelkilt Lives!

  2. User avater
    BossHog | Apr 02, 2002 02:39pm | #9

    Hang on a minute here - The guy said The gutters run into tile . He didn't say they ran into his footing tiles.

    Maybe he'll show back up and clear things up a bit.

    1. luvmuskoka | Apr 02, 2002 02:47pm | #10

      Boss,

      Granted they probobly don't run into the footing tile, however the system is still introducing a lot of moisture to the basement area and then sending it back outside, seems counter productive. I think that is a code violation in my area.

    2. Armin110 | Apr 02, 2002 02:48pm | #11

      Boss, I was just about to ask the same question. My gutters run into tile that drains to daylight obout 60 ft from the house, no connection to the foundation drains what so ever. I still get ground water coming into the sump during the spring snowmelt, This year I added a second sump pit about 5 feet deep, lined it with crushed stone, added a second pump and have my fingers crossed.

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