Here is one for all you roofers. I need help.
OK.
2/12 pitch roof.
Owners have nixed membrane roof of any type, $ preclude metal, they want architectural shingles .
No problem right? Ice and Water then the shingles.
Here is the rub:
Manufacturer won’t warranty the roof over the Ice and Water. Warranty calls for meeting the code . Code is Ice and Water from eave to 24″ inside of building line then double layer of type 1 felt.
So if I do better then the felt I lose the warranty, do Felt and I face possible leaks.
So what would you do ?
Ice and Water and no Warranty ?
Felt and Warranty?
40 year Shingles
They can’t get your Goat if you don’t tell them where it is hidden.
Replies
I&W no warranty. Also shorten up the exposure from 5 5/8 (I think it is) to say 5'' or less. And keep the end butts at greater than 6" like most tabbed shingles are layed. Make it 12".
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
What manufacturer is it? All the brands of archys sold here allow 2/12 with I&WS or half lapped #30 felt under. Most require their own brand of I&WS used.
http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Malarky or Gaf. Malarky has a "Match " warranty to other manufacturers.
Paper work I saw today seemed to indicate most manufacturers called for the "Code" method. Yes to brand name Ice and Water, although sales rep himself admitted that his preference would be Ice and Water specifically.
He also told me that he has sat in on meetings where the factory techs said they thought the I & W was the way to go but the actual warranty paper work doesn't spell it out that way. This is also a "High Wind' area
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
From the GAF Timberline 40 installation manual:
Underlayment: Low Slope 2/12-4/12 (167mm-333mm/m)
Application of underlayment and eave flashing: Completely cover the deck with two
layers of underlayment as shown. Use only enough nails to hold underlayment in place
until covered by shingles. Use blind nailing for eave flashings. At eaves and where ice dams can
be expected, use one layer of GAF Materials Corporation Weather Watch¯ or StormGuard¯ Leak
Barrier. Eave flashing must overhang the roof edge by 3/8" (10mm) and extend 24" (610mm)
beyond the inside wall line. Where ice dams or debris dams are not expected, install 2 plies of
Shingle-Mate¯ underlayment.
http://www.gaf.com/Content/Documents/20292.pdfhttp://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Follow up w/ a polite letter/document that informs the client that their insistence on a choice of materials renders a warranty useless ... but tell them (assuming it is your opinion) that there will be no leaks. Their insistence on violating code and/or manuf. specifications should fall on their shoulder. Educate them as best you can and let them choose to use the materials or not. This assumes you have a comfort level with a choice. 2/12 slope is generally not shingle territory, period. Why you would insist on using shingles for that low a slope .... I'm sure you know exactly the situation, so I'm sure there must be some rationale. .... food for thought.
Owners have been given the information.
There will be paper work drawn up with that in print for them to sign. Right now they are leaning toward the I & W on my recommendation. I am well aware of the low slope problems and simply have my hands tied when it comes to changing the material used.
Interestingly the code itself does not address a full cover of I & W only the double and 1/2 lapped felt.
Edited 1/22/2009 12:30 am by dovetail97128
Malarkey has the same spec:
http://www.malarkeyroofing.com/library/instructinstalllamshingle.pdfhttp://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Very interesting!! The hand out that the rep gave me ( a small booklet) Has a line in it that says the the underlayment must be done to the code. I will scan it when I get to work and if I can and post it.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
the underlayment must be done to the code.
Had a minor issue with that years ago when they changed the install specs to what they are now. Only time it came up, the inspector deferred to the manufacturer's specs.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Just got off the phone with Malarky warranty people. He sent me an e-mail detailing the required (or acceptable) practice for warranty. I&W (or their equivalent) full deck , followed by 1 layer minimum 15 lb.felt then shingles. 6 nails per shingle for the wind issue and NO STAPLES. Looks like I am covered.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
We all know that the ice and water shield with arch. shingles is a serious roof..warranties are fantastic for sure, however, I'd say screw itand go with what you know will work in this particular situation..
All I ever wanted in life was an unfair advantage...
I did exactly what you are contemplating..low pitch roof(almost dead flat), owner wants it shingled. I installed I&W membrane over entire roof. I also installed 15 lb felt overtop of I&W and then installed shingles. The shingles were 25 year, 3 tabs.
That was 5 years ago...to date, no leaks. If you installed felt overtop the I&W, would you still be voiding the warranty? My lumber yard seemed to think not, and so I did it that way...with the owner's full knowledge and approval. This roof was over a bump-out addition and was only 10 square.
Davo