I have an older home probably built in about 1950. It has low voltage switches controlling the garage, basement and outside lighting. There is a main control panel in the main house that has switches and indicator lights showing if the garage, basement, or outdoor lights are on. It is a nice system because you can put switches anywhere you want by just running what looks like 3 wire bell wire to a low voltage switch.
I have never seen a system like this on an old house, and I don’t know were to get parts for it. My basement lights will not work anymore. The switches controlling the lights look like a short, wide doorbell button, but have an on and off position. I believe these are called momentary contact switches. Many of these switches are worn and need to be replaced. I have no idea were to get them, I can’t find any model numbers on them, and no-one I have talked to at an electrical supply house has an idea of what I am talking about. Some of the pilot lights are also burned out, they look like the old screw-in Christmas light bulbs, but smaller. The reason my basement lights do not work appears to be the low voltage coil mounted on an electrical box that also has a large transformer mounted on it. The coil just buzzes when the switch is pushed and the lights do not go on. The coil says General Electric, Coil 25V60CAC, SW 1/4 HP 120 VAC 10A, CAT GE 3563, (or it could be 6E 3563). Any idea were to get this coil, the switches, and pilot light bulbs?
Replies
There were at least a couple of such systems in the 50's and maybe into the 60's but, as you've dicsovered, it can be hard to find parts - at least one system doesn't have them.
Try a google web search for General Electric low voltage - one site I found is http://www.dale-electric.com/85-0.htm
Or, try calling some elec supply houses and ask to talk to "the oldest guy" there. You don't want some fella who is wet behind the ears for this one!
I've attached a few shots - the first system ("sys1") is, I think, a GE system, and shows a messy control box and the push button controls
The second, sys2 is one of the others
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I think that you have the dates a little early.
I think that it was more into the 60's.
When I built my house in 79. I used about 9, just on some outdoor lighting that I wanted to control from multiple areas.
I have a friend that build his house in the 60's and he had all lights on it including a couple of ALL call switches. They where a rotary switch with about 12 or maybe 24 positions. You selected ON or OFF and then rotated the knob.
They also had a motor driven switch for more positions.
I did some more searching using some of the part numbers, but could not find anything else except the Dale site.
But GE has a number of ways of contacting them;
http://www.geindustrial.com/industrialsystems/contactus/index.jsp
>>I think that you have the dates a little early.
>>I think that it was more into the 60's.
Could be. I have the address on the one set of pics, and if I find a few momwnts will check the county records to see when it was built.
Later:
Ahh, the pic of the very messy box was taken in a house built in '53 and I believe that wiring was original to the house.
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I'm matching tool donors to a church mission to Haiti - we're shipping a bus converted to a medical facility in January (we hope) and can fill it with clothes, tools and all sorts of stuff needed in that poorest of all countries. A few hand tools or power tools can provide a livelihood for an otherwise destitute family. Please email me if you have tools to donate.
Edited 12/6/2003 11:11:49 PM ET by Bob Walker
The relays on the second system look like what I am looking for in a relay. I looked up the Dale electric supply link and I will give them a call on Monday. I don't see exactly what I need but I think they should be able to get me on the right track. Where did you get the pictures of the different systems? My low voltage wiring also looks messy but when it works it is kind of nice.
I live in the suburbs of Chicago, I think I may have to find an electrical supply house in Chicago, and find "the oldest guy", it seems like most stores by me are too new, but Chicago probably has a source, I wouldn't be surprised if an old electric supply house down in Chicago has old parts on the shelves from 40 or 50 years ago, the problem is trying to find them!
I have also sent an e-mail to GE, maybe they can help. But I think I will also have to hope they have an "old timer" around.
Thanks for the leads.
Bob,
I don't work much on houses but from talking to other electricians and service truck guys yours is a common problem.If you want to maintain your system you just have to insert modern parts into it.I wouldn't even obsess over finding original part #'s,etc.Your easiest fix is to focus on each piece's function and replace it with the current equivalent.For relays match the coil voltage and contact ampere ratings,for control transformers match the VA rating and input/output voltages.Just eliminate the old part and insert the new.I've fixed OLD equipment and machines with new Potter-Brimfield "ice cube" (that's what they look like) relays lots of times.If your switches in finished walls go bad and can't be easily matched,see it as an oppurtunity to replace that part of the system with something new that appeals to you.
Or just gut the system and start over.You could bitch about engineers and their bright ideas the whole time you're working on it.
Barry
Bob - I saw those on some inspections I did.
For local info you might try contacting Corey Friedman in (near) Chicago - a master electrician who is now an inspector -very knowledgable and a great guy:
Corey, Friedman M
Greater Chicago Home Inspections
Northbrook IL 60062
(847) 509-9339
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Tool Donations Sought
I'm matching tool donors to a church mission to Haiti - we're shipping a bus converted to a medical facility in January (we hope) and can fill it with clothes, tools and all sorts of stuff needed in that poorest of all countries. A few hand tools or power tools can provide a livelihood for an otherwise destitute family. Please email me if you have tools to donate.
never seen ur system but...man i just bought some "low voltage controllers" off ebay... ul listed little box... think they were less than $10 ea... no i don't have a use for them YET but i'm building some drop out of the ceiling boxes for projectors and TV's i thought they'd be cool for... try a search on ebay... i think the guy i got em from had 100's of em... if i can find where i got em... i'll post it
Pony
The simplest way to get a handle on the parts is to contact a local HVAC supplier or Electrical Supply house. Get hold of their most experienced "control" man.
The system you have is really pretty simple. It just uses a 24V circuit to the switches and a relay to control the 110 VAC.
The GE part info you provided gave me that information. The part itself is a 24v coil single pole relay. Posibly a "latching relay".
But any good supply house should be able to track it, or an equivalent one down for you pretty easy.
You may have problems trying to match the swithes though. I shouldn't be any problem to match them in function. The appearance may be a problem.
Jim
Just a suggestion, but if you like the functionality of a remote system and don't want to get too invested in maintaining the current low voltage system, it might be a good time to switch over to X-10.
This weekend radio shack has a special on an x-10 package where they have bundled an 8-address controller box with a light module and an appliance module for like $20. I have been impressed by the functionality of the x-10 gear, especially the remote stuff. We keep the two-address transmitters in vehicles, and it is nice being able to turn on interior and perimeter lights from the vehicle. In addition, between the 1st floor interior lights and the perimeter spots, pushing "all-lights on" button instantly cranks 3000+ watts of light, a very good security deterrent and neighbor annoyer.
Bob,
I have a system just like that that controls all the lights in the house,and with a rotary switch to control all of them from one place. They are just garden variety 24 v relays with momentary contact switches. They were originally used in office buildings where the interior walls were moved a lot. you could move walls without rewireing the whole place.
Ibew bob has the idea just find the generic part to replace whats broken.Big commericial electric house or electronic supply house.
Bud
Bob: If yo have the GE type system, send me an e-mail and I''ll send you FREE the parts yo need. First, try simply getting out some sandpaper and your pliers, take the swithdces apart, sand the contacts - tat'll probably fix you up. Also, welcome, see this is your second post.
Gee guys, if you don't know ....
This site is really slow today, anywhay, the pix are the GE/Bryant type parts, commercial buildigns still use this system all the time
.
Edited 12/7/2003 7:56:31 AM ET by JUNKHOUND
da pix
aw forget it, the site is too slow to mess with anymoer this AM