Low voltage lights under the cabinets
RichBeckman
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
This teaches me to be thinking…
I thought that I wanted some low voltage lights to put under the kitchen cabs. Customer doesn’t want the puck lights, but a tube so the light is continuous. I thought it would make sense to run the low voltage wiring into the basement and to the transformer. There are three different sets of upper cabinets, so that would be three low voltage lines into the basement.
But the only low voltage lights I can find locally are at Lowes, and those are the pucks and they want a 115v outlet to plug each set into.
Am I nuts? I thought what I wanted made perfect sense.
Anyone know of a source??
Thanks,
Rich Beckman
Replies
Rich,
I just got the coolest undercab lights installed in my kitchen.
My electrician found them at some electric supply house. They are essentially little fixtures about 2" long with the 5 or 10 watt halogen bulbs exposed. These little fixtures are (in my case) about 4" apart simply clipped on to what appears to be a white #10 or 12 wire. He referred to them as jewelry cabinet lights. They come with these fixtures either 2", 4", or 6" apart. The fixtures themselves have double stick tape on their backs for mounting. We also put a few white cable nails in for good measure.
At first, he mounted them underneath the cabs. The wife didn't like them because they were exposed and too bright. But once we mounted a piece of crown at the bottom of the wall cabinet front with a bottom nailer attached (but the nailer was then mostly ripped off at a 45, thus giving a wide bottom to the crown) and moved the light strip close and just behind the crown, her objections went away.
The final appearance is as if the cabinets float on a cushion of white light. I've never seen a similar installation, but I'll never have anything different from now on!
And then we mounted rope lighting on top of the cabs for the fianl effect.
Check that lectric supply house close to you and ask for these jewelry cabinets light strings. They have some type of literature describing them more. But that special crown was a bit*h to find. Good luck!
Those things are sometimes called linear lighting. You can do a google with that phrase and find several sources.
maybe a trip to the big city is in order.....
any real electrical suppy house will have lotsa options. Even a good plumbing/cabinet dealer will have something to help ya.
And I'm convinced the puck lights at HD and Lowes are of the lowest quality. I build a nice corner built-in cab.....doors on lower, open shelves on upper....wired it for pucks.....set it...was smart enough to leave a wire chase "just in case"....and not staple the wires tight...even made the top filler friction fit.."just in case" i had to reach the transforms......
replace that set up in one way or another 3 times in the course of 6 months! Each time, returning the burned out part for an exchange at HD.
Finally got smart and spent a coupla more bucks for a very similar system at a real electric supply...it even worked with the original wires...just tied in the new transformer and lights....
and that's been over....I'd say...4 years...and haven't heard a customer complaint from them since.
Save yourself the headache....get it from a real place. Jeff
.......Sometimes on the toll road of life.....a handful of change is good.......
I wonder if I also need to go to an electrical supply store. I did for an inexpensive transformer [12volt, 30watt] but purchased the three 10w puck lights at HD. After wiring them into a built in cabinet they now turn on and then suddenly fade off. I luckily wired everything [wire runs and transformer] to be accessible but I am not sure what component is failing.
Is this a sign of a faulty transformer and puck lights? Which should I replace?
Hi Jason:
I've installed puck lights under my maple cabinets. I've wired the plug directly to a switch that's also connected to a pot light over the sink. I find the arrangement works great with only a slight delay in the puck (halogen) lights.
I think you've got a problem with the lights. But on the chance, is their sufficient venting for the lights? Some of these really throw out alot of heat and that can affect the transformer.
Billyg
Sounds like the transformer.Sounds like a switching power supply ("electronic transformer").You probably should have about a 50 watt unit if you have 30 watts of load.
I like under cab lighting! We install lots of low voltage puck lights for customers, those I am not fussy on because they seem to go through bulbs and transformers rapidly. They do have a nice effect I must admit.
Puttting the transformers in the basement is good for concealing them, but I would be concerned about voltage drop, starting out at 24 v dosn't give you much to loose. We usually hide the tranny's in the valance, that way you have both 120v and 24v available if the customer wants to change to a different style light at a later date.
For my own home I will probably go to small flourescent(s) with a difuser to cover the tube, mininum hastle, even lighting and less maintenance.
Edited 10/5/2002 9:48:38 AM ET by bake
Puck lights are puke lights.
My electrician gets rope light which everyone is way happy with. It is more accent lighting than a task light tho'
A trip to a lighting specialty store with displays (No, not HD) is in order.
I just did the same to a flooring store to update myself on all the real world stuff available..
Excellence is its own reward!
"puck lights....... "puke"lights, o.k. is that when the light shines on the polished countertop and you see the reflection and see what you normally don't see, that is, the underneath of the wall cabinets, and you see the staples and drywall<g> screws and , it makes you want to pppppppuuuuuuuuuuukkkkeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllffffffffffffffffff?listening for the secret.......searching for the sound...
what happened..you forget the under cab trim and skins?
supposed to look nice under there too!
Jeff.......Sometimes on the toll road of life.....a handful of change is good.......
Well, after reading many web sites, including those recommended, I decided to use low voltage light bars from WAC Lighting.
http://www.WACLighting.com/waclighting/homepage.html
These bars have the transformer inside, can be wired direct, and can all be switched with a dimmer at the doorway. Worked great.
Almost $50.00 per bar. Got them from the local electical supply. WAC referred me to them. The supply house didn't know about them!
Thanks to all who posted. Lots to think about before the next job comes up!
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
Edited 12/10/2002 7:27:56 PM ET by Rich Beckman
Rich..the kitchen I just finished..the electrician said his supply house don't carry the low volt halo with the transformer any more....and he had to get 110 halo lights instead. No transformer...just hardwired into what was gonna be the transformer receptical box......they look just like the other pucks....seem to work great.
He didn't have time to ask them why...but thinks replacing transformers may be their reason. He said so far...he liked the new ones as well..or maybe even a bit more...then the old.
Not sure if this is new...or just new to his supplier. I had to disconnect and rewire then to replace 2 cab's....and that was as simple as a few wires..and they lit afterwards..so I like'm.
Maybe something to check into. JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Here's a couple of sources...
Juno makes a 12V miniature Trac lighting that can be mounted to the underside of a cabinet and has a couple different things that can be clipped into it...most common small 5 or 10 W xenon bulbs. I've put in a lot of these.
Seagull makes a 12V system that works by installing a heavy lamp cord into a small trac. the lights then clip onto it and pierce the insulation. Same effect as the Juno lighting but easier to install, maybe not quite as high quality. Seagull also makes a valance to hide the lights better if they show.
Outwater Plastics supplies both good quality puck lights and the rope lighting Piffin describes.
Best advice is to go to an electrical supply house. There are several manufactures of the type of lighting you are describing. Lucifer is one and the Juno product is similar. the halogen lamps create a lot of heat and last about 3000 hours (most don't). Xeon lamps last 15,000 hours but have a bluer color. With most of these systems you can combine even lighting with spot lighting. I prefer the addition of the spots to eliminate the uniformity (highlight a feature of just create a more dynamic look).
We put several of these halogens with little bulbs every 6 inches or so (under glass) and under cabinets in the last house (customer picked them up) and there has been no end and no solution to bulbs blowing. At first we thought there might be some heat generated at the contact (they don't fit tight-two little wires shoved in). We tried a lower wattage and a contact solution but with no let up on the bulbs going. They get hot! The supplier has no answer.
At first I thought halogen was an improvement over the "humming" flourescents, but people tune that out.
The Juno product is better than Lucifer. Lucifer uses festoon(sp) lamps and I have had problems with them. On one project using Lucifer the lamps, would fall out of the holders (installed in cove to down light the wall). The track was installed bare (plastic track and screws). The manufacture's rep. said that we needed to mount the plastic track in their alum. extrusion first and then install the fixture. The heat from the lamps warped the plastic track and the movement allowed the lamps to fall out. I had talked to the manufacture prior to specifying the fixture and no mention was made about using the alum. extrusion. Live and learn. The xeon lamps are the way to go if the color is to your liking and you like 15,000 hour lamp life.
Hmm. Interesting problem. Bad connections may be the cause of the poor bulb life. You might try running them without the glass to see if heat build up is part of the problem. Also when replacing lamps, bulbs, don't touch or allow anything with any oils or grease.
These lamps run hot and even the smallest amount of contamination can cause the glass envelope to expand unevenly causing stress that causes small cracks. Air leaks in and in a short time the filament blows out. Many times you can tell this has happened because the inside of the bulb will be "silvered" with the vaporized tungsten. This then usually turns dark grey as it oxidizes.
Don't use your hands. I won't even use tools as I keep them oiled to prevent rust. Wash your hands before changing lamps. Most of these lamps come in a paper sleeve which you can handle the bulb through. Once in place the paper is slipped off. A fresh paper towel can be used in a pinch. If you do touch the glass a good wash with rubbing alcohol will sometimes save the bulb but allow it to dry before giving it a try.
as an extra to the lighting use a "touch switch" wired to one of the cabinet hinges. no ugly switch to install. (if your cabinet hinges are not exposed - any conductive surface will do - my father used a small metal stripe hidden under the lip of the upper cabinets. Once you go to a electrical/lighting store (like everyone else here recomened) just pick up a replacement touch switch for a lamp - less than 10 bucks - and wire it ahead of the transformer it. My undercabinet lights have three touch settings low - works great for a kitchen "night light" and med and high. (med doesn't really get much use) -careful tho because the switch is a step down, it won't work with fluorecent lights. piffn - I like my puke lights!!!
the touch switch is fantastic. The very same corner cab with the porblem lights had a hidden switch....touch wired to one of the hinges on the bottom cab.
The parents said they'd have a good laugh not telling the kids that was how the lights worked...and see who caught on first.
At the time..I wasn't sure if they'd want the hinge/touch..or the little pad.....so I got the pad.....when they OK'd the touch..I just cut the lead off the pad and wired it direct to the hinge screw.
I have the same set up at home....just have left the touch pad. Jeff.......Sometimes on the toll road of life.....a handful of change is good.......
This source may be late for you, but if anyone is interested in seeing a pretty amazing selection of undercabinet lighting as well as other types of contemporary lighting, you need to get the Outwater Plastics cataog, which is a gold mine of products of the trim and finish variety, for builders. Their website ....
http://208.245.181.35/cgi-bin/worder?category=LIGHTING&pcat=ARCHPRO&vcat=ARCH&cust=WEB5
... shows some of their lighting. I think their prices look pretty good too. Note, however, that the web site list only a tiny part of what the catalog carries. The catalog has both low and line voltage undercabs. They have halogen, incandescent, and some nifty mini fluorescent stuff.
Edited 12/11/2002 1:27:25 PM ET by BEMW
My wife would like for me to put some kind of undercabinet lights in our kitchen. So here is my ignorent question: If you place the lights under the front edge of the cabinet, where do you run the wires? Staple Romex to the bottom of the cabinet from the wall to the fixture? Conduit?
Bart
the junction box is hidden inside a cab somewhere....the wires run under the cabs are lampcord.
The romex is best run inside the walls.....or on top of the cabs. Drill a hole in the cab....run the lampcord along the cab side..underneath...then across the front of the apron. Staple or better yet.....use the little cord holders that nail into the inside edge of the front of the face frame...
done.......
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite