Hello,
I don’t usually post to this board, so hello to all you homebuilders. I’m a kitchen and bath designer with a question about rain showerheads: I have a client who is unhappy with the water pressure coming from the exposed shower system and rain showerhead we installed. There isn’t a flow restrictor in any part of the system as far as we know. We did install 3/4″ pipes that feed into the valves. Does anyone have suggestions as to how we can improve the pressure? Is there something we can put at the water tank?
Many thanks.
Jocelyn
Replies
Welcome aboard. I recall installing one in a shower and had the HO mention the same thing. Now, He was the purchaser and it was quite an expensive item. He told the plumber about his dissatisfaction and was told back that "It is a LOW pressure head" Rain shower vs. carwash. It turns out the internals of the head are made in such a way that, that is as good as it gets.
He promptly bought another and it was exactly the same.
So, I think that the only recouse would be to switch to a ' non' rainshower type head. The one he had choosen was 9'' in diameter. He settled to live with it.
Uh oh. She won't be happy to hear that. Maybe someone else knows of the plumbing equivalent of a magic bullet?
Thanks.
Jocelyn
ahhh, the plumber's magic bullet........if only.......
you don't mention whether this is a public water system or a well. when you say that you used 3/4" pipes to supply, does this mean that the supply pipes are 3/4" all the way back to the main ? could they have been reduced at any point ? do you know what the house pressure is ? my guess is that sphere is correct that the head is designed to provide a soft waterfall and not a torrent of water. i have a friend who has a new well system at his new home. he installed one of these heads on an outdoor shower. it was a little disappointing to me when i saw the flow. it probably resembles yours. other than making sure that a bottleneck doesn't exist somewhere in your pipes, increasing the pressure can be tricky. it can be done on a well pump system to a point by adjusting the pressure switch. unfortunately, the sure fix of a storage tank and secondary pump is really pricey. most would opt for a different shower head before paying for this alternative.
carpenter in transition
I don't believe that they are 3/4" all the way - just the new pipe that was installed when we replaced the old shower system. It is a public water supply. No well. Just so I know, how pricey is pricey? (I'm sure this varies by geographic area; needless to say, we are in a very expensive part of the country).
Thanks.
Jocelyn
I had the same problem in my kitchen fixture. So I took out the low flow part and destroyed it. Take the shower head apart and see if it has somthing to restrict the water, and if it does take it out. If it's the normal city preassure for that area than your other options are very expensive.
Jason
You mean there is a part of the country that is NOT expensive??? LOL
Oh..BTW..diameter changes volume , not pressure..sorry to say.
Go Stab yourself Ya Putz! Ya think I Parked here?
Edited 2/3/2004 8:18:25 PM ET by SPHERE
I tried to core out a Rain Head to get a better volume... Ah... shall we just say the shower head didn't fair well... They are restricted...
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Yup, I always grab a 5/16 bit, waller out the restrictor. If I screw it up..I yank out what I can and drill a 5/16 hole in a penney and stick that in..it works. "cept fer them rain heads..you'd need air assist for enough ummmppphh to really take a shower, hell, they got a zillion holes.
Go Stab yourself Ya Putz! Ya think I Parked here?
Well, here's the thing: we can't change the showerhead (it is brand new and part of a very expensive shower system), I would like to tell her that there is an option (namely the second pump) if she wants to pursue that. Can you give me a ballpark on the cost? Whatever it costs, will it fix (or significantly improve) the problem?
Thanks much.
Jocelyn
Sorry to say this..nope. I am not even certain that the mention of a "second pump" is feasable, or will change the inherent design of the head. And I am not a plumber ( architectural woodworker, who has done almosteverything at one time or another) . The problem again is pressure, and the drawback is it is low pressure fixture. If it resembles the large dia. one's I have seen it would take a LOT more pressure to have all of those holes "jet" with force, and that to me seems to exceed what the fixture may operate normally with...in other words...water may jet all different directions and with varying force..improperly. That may soak more than ya bargain for..like the whole room.
Sorry 'bout that.
Go Stab yourself Ya Putz! Ya think I Parked here?
Those large shower heads are a disappointment to customers who expect a deluge just because the head is so large. When the supply volume is restricted by the standard sized water meter or by pump capacity there is no way you will get more volume.
Using a pressure washer as an example, if you use the zero tip, which will cause the water to actually cut you, you get the IMPRESSION that you are getting a LOT of water but if you take off the restriction all you get is a stream of water equal to the input from the garden hose. You get the impression that there is LESS water.
Same with the rain heads. No restrictions - just 500 holes vying for the limited volume of water at delivery pressure - and all you get is a dribble.
To make a rain head deliver more water, you would need to increase the size of the meter and replumb the house with much larger piping. You could probably do irrigation calculations to come up with the system you would need and you would still be limited by the 3/4" size of the water heater fittings. Probably have to use full-flow ball valves to mix the hot and cold. No fancy fixtures available that I know of in LARGE sizes.
Since you need the rain head as it is installed, paid for, and "part of the look" of the remodel--can you get a regular hand-held shower nozzle? That may be the only real solution here. The "rain" heads are exactly that, soft and gentle, and best used for rinsing off around a pool. For water pressure, you need a "real" showerhead.
You might look at actually changing the pipe up to the head to 1/2" pipe. Sounds odd, but the physics are the thing, a bigger pipe after a smaller pipe will not deliver more water harder and faster (think about hooking a T1 line to a 28.8 modem).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
"You might look at actually changing the pipe up to the head to 1/2" pipe. Sounds odd, but the physics are the thing, a bigger pipe after a smaller pipe will not deliver more water harder and faster (think about hooking a T1 line to a 28.8 modem)."
Yes, and no.
The proper analogy is electrical power wiring.
The pipe has resistance in the form of friction losses. The amount of friction losses is a function of pipe size and flow rates.
The pressure at the device (the voltage at the load) is the pressure at the main less the friction losses in the piping (voltage drops in the wiring).
If you replace one section of smaller pipe with a bigger one then the friction losses will be reduced.
Just the same way that heavy duty #10 extension cords are used on 20 amp circuits rather than #12.
The proper analogy is electrical power wiring
True enough (although all of the electrical stuff I was eveer taught used plumbing as an example <g>).
More, I was thinking of the number of times I've seen the shower valve on nominal 1/2 IP wit ha 3/4" PVC shower arm over it. Sometimes, using 1/2" gives just that little extra--the valve is the sorce of resistance, so, like having #14 & 12 hooked up to a rheostat with #10 afterwards. Is the effect noticable? Maybe. Usually, I've put a brand new showerhead on, too--pick a variable. As long as the shower users are happy . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Thanks to all who provided insights (even if they were a little grim for my client). I am looking into replacements for the showerhead that might have a smaller diameter. The unit does have a hand shower. I will check out the pressure in that next time I am there.
Thanks again.
Jocelyn
Let's not re-invent the wheel Jocelyng! I had the same problem with a rain head we installed in a new bath. What I did was rig the shower head up to a garden hose and show the customer what the flow was at "full flow". It was the same as in the shower stall. Put the hose nozzle back on and washed my truck at 30ft. I hope your customer understands this. Good luck and I hope you are past the final payment.
Just a thought. If you can get to the back side you might experiment with temporarily blocking off two or three outer rings of holes with tape in order to concentrate the spray more to the center. The thing should spray with more force but still look the same.
Once you determine the correct number of holes you need you could block the rest with hot glue or something in any pattern you want.
I'll think about this. What should I used to block it temporarily?
Thanks.
Jocelyn
>> Oh..BTW..diameter changes volume , not pressure..sorry to say.
That might be true if water had zero viscosity. In the real world, if you put a flow restrictor with a .001" orifice in a shower head, the pressure on the downstream side will be roughly zero.
Majic bullet... Lotsa luck...
I believe those shower heads are designed to replicate a gental summer rain. Never saw one work any other way.
New shower head may be in order...
BTW... Welcome jocelyng... Enjoy your stay...
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
on the current project the customer asked about the rain head...
so I asked my plumber ...
he said it had to be 3/4 all the way to the main .. to get half way there ...
said everyone he's installed for isn't happy unless it's 1" the whole way ...
Customer didn't wanna reinvent his plumbing .. so he passed on the idea.
Those shower heads are nothing but trouble.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Maybe their is something wrong with the shower valve. I once had a shower in a new house with low pressure. I tore out the valve and there was a piece of solder partially blocking it. Just a thought.