A friend of mine (swear it’s not me) had a bathroom that he recently remodled. Part of what prompted the remodel job was that he had floor joists that were bacically rotted to nothing. Also, years back a plumber cut away quite a bit of a bearing wall.
He called me over for advice after he gutted everything and I had to convince him that the entire floor needed to be structurally repaired. The cast Iron tub was over 1 joist that had beed hacked from a 2×10 down to a 2×4 and was completely unsupported at one end! I think the only thing holding the tub in place was the plaster and the tile.
Anyway, I prescribed what he could do to fix it which involved sistering joists and re-leveling everything and I emphasized how important it was that he get the new floor height correct if he wanted to leave the existing toilet flange in place, which he insisted on doing.
Anyway, he missed the mark and now of all things the toilet flange is about 1/4″ too high above the finished marble and the toilet rocks pretty bad.
I told him his problem is now beyond normal shimming and he is asking me for advice.
I have two thoughts: 1. trace the tiolet over a 1/4″ sheet of plywood, cut it w/ a jigsaw, and create one big shim. Calk around the edges and viola!
Or is there a way to lower the flange? (probably not likely right?) I should say is there a way to lower the flange w/out ripping apart his floor he just finished too badly?
P.S. there is no access from below
edit: I also remember him mentioning that he had gotten the extended length toilet and dropped it over the flange, but realised it was too long for his tiny bathroom and rather than have his knees hit the wall, he went with the standard bowl length. The extended length toilet was apparantly not rocking, where this one now is. Are there any toilets that are more forgiving for a higher flange? that may be an easy solution.
Edited 12/30/2005 12:13 pm ET by xosder11
Replies
In a similiar instance where I had a toilet flange that was sticking up to much coupled with a slope in the floor I made a plate using 3/8" ONYX material, if you're not familiar it's the same type of product as Swanstone.
Using a piece of foam pipe insulation as an offset from the toilet base I was able to match the footprint of the toilet, functionaly it served the exact purpose I needed but truth be told it wasn't a perfect fix, It didn't look bad but it didn't look great either, though the homeowners seemed to love it.
I wouldn't recommend using plywood and caulk, over time the plywood could rot and quickly after installation the caulk probably won't look so hot either.
I think that's a good idea to use a better material than plywood. I'll look into that. Thanks.
Oooo Oooo
So I take the piece of swanstone and trace the base of teh poilet and add like 1-1 1/2" around it using the pipe insulation or something to that effect, then give it an ogee edge. Is that like what you did? That might dress up the base of the toilet a little. I think we are getting somewhere here.Now the question is how do you work with swanstone. I need to research the product a little. Where do I get it and how do I cut it?
Edited 12/30/2005 12:40 pm ET by xosder11
I've never worked with Swanstone, from what I'm told it's the same as ONYX which is basically resin and colors. ONYX cuts and tools with wood working tools, I cut it with a jig saw and sanded the edge into a round over working though sanding grits starting at 120 up to 600, the edge did not end up near as glossy as the top, but it also was not very noticable unless you were on the floor looking.
To get it we have a local supplier of ONYX however HD also sells it as a speacial order, they also have Swanstone around here. You could go in and talk to them and see if they could order you a small sheet of it, though I would try to find someone local first as I do not enjoy having to order anything from the box store.
http://www.theonyxcollection
http://www.swanstone.com/
Before doing any of that I'd call my plumber explain the situation and see what he could do with out doing to much damage. Our plumber has lowered PVC flanges with out any damage to the surrounding surfaces but I do not know anything about cast iron.......other then it's heavy. ;)
Thanks for the helpfull advice. So you think I could put a nice beaded edge on it with a router?
don't know, never tried a router on it myself.
Like someone else suggested, I do recall seeing marble "risers" under stools in a magazine, might have been an add in the back of fine home building? If you called a marble/granite fabricator they could probably make you exactly what you want...for a price
What I did worked, but I really didn't like the way it looked in the end. I have a picture of it somewhere if I can find it I'll post it.
I also had a problem of the floor dropping 3/8" from the back to the front of the stool, I was able to shim the plate a little, and the stool a little, and have it not be as noticable as just shimming the stool itself.
You know, another option is to call a plumber and have them lower the flange.
happy?
Oh Right! I haddn't though of that : ) Before we call a plumber I was hoping one would come along at this site and suggest how that may be done without ripping apart all his work, or his downstairs neighbors cieling. I mean, how much room do they need. What is the most minimally invasive way of doing it. I don't know what is involved.I just was trying to get an idea of what to expect
Edited 12/30/2005 1:08 pm ET by xosder11
In the olden days, they made marble "safes", a rectangular platform about 1/2 or 3/4 inches thick, and it went under the bowl. It had a hole in the appropriate location for the waste line. Unlike the other material suggested, this one does not match the bottom of the bowl. I think I gots one in the basement. Interested? Where in the "Northeast" are you and your friend? I'm on Long Island. By the way, plywood is a definite no-no. It will rot, compress and get messy in a heartbeat.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Thanks Don,
I'm in Boston
I missed the line about no access from below, but a clever plumber may be able to cut out the flange from above and fit a new one. Or simply pay the downstairs neighbors to live in a hotel for a couple of days (and maybe see a show) while the deed is done.Toilets do differ in terms of how much clearance they allow for the flange. But there's no real rule, so you'd have to check each one individually. (Probably best approach is to make up a jig with a flange on it and try it on each toilet at the store.)Also, don't use a reenforced wax ring, but rather just solid wax, as the reenforcement takes away thickness.There are several different schemes for raising a toilet, but none that are particularly attractive. Probably the best (least unattractive) would be to remove the marble in the toilet area and raise it up, with a slight "step" of 1/2" or so between that marble and the rest of the floor.
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
Thanks Dan. I think now your seeing our dilemma.
Just did two baths with cast flanges. One I removed since I was relocating crapper but before that I removed it because I thought I could save the floor. The other had a similar problem. I worked it with a hammer and block to remove the flange and cut some off the pipe with a grinder. It is just a collar slipped over the pipe with some oakum dam and lead. If careful you can put it back on and stake the lead back tight.
At least that is what I have seen. Good luck.
I don't think that someone without a lot of experience with this type of hook-up can do. If you decide to get a plumber make sure he is old school [Most plumbers nowdays don't know anything about pack and pour]. Sorry for the negative.
Thats just it, the experience thing. Most people saw it can't be done, but then there are a few people who talk about "banging it down". I don't know anything about pack and pour myself so i guess if we call a plumber I'll make sure they know a bit about that before we have him over.
Thing is, there are about a dozen different ways this thing can be put together. Sometimes the elbow is lead and can be easily bent, sometimes the flange is separate from the elbow and can be removed without too much difficulty, sometimes the flange is cast onto the elbow. You do need an old plumber, or one who's done a lot of work on old buildings, to figure out the situation and decide if there's a fix.
Also note that some of these old installations have a 5" flange rather than the 4" one. This type of flange has a slightly larger outside diameter and can interfere with the toilet somewhere other than at the flange meeting face, and simply grinding down the corners of the flange may be all that's needed.
BTW, just how proud of the floor is the flange?
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
About 1/2", maybe 5/8" at the most.
I'm glad glad you understand my point, lots of luck.