Hello,
I’ve been marketing for window replacements, and getting a good response until…..the h.o. goes to Lowes and sees that they will install windows for $99.00 an opening. How do they do that. How much does the subcontracted installer get paid for this work? Is that price only good for frame in frame replacements? Or does that price go for a SGD replacement that entails full removal of trim on the existing unit.
This Lowes ad makes me look like I’m trying to scam the ho when I quote a price that is twice what Lowes charges.
FWIW, my average install price hovers around $200/opening with sealants, insulation, and trim replacement. (Does not include actual cost of trim).
As part of my sales bait, I make sure that they know I started servicing defective window installations over ten years ago, I am a licensed General Contractor, and I have AAMA Certification for the work I am doing. I also have the list of references from past clients.
Maybe I oughta just sign up as a subcontractor for Lowes.
David
Replies
Ah, you gotta read the fine print:
"Offer limited to basic replacement window installation only and expires on 7/14/08. Price is quoted on a per window basis and is available on vinyl replacement windows and wood renovation windows up to 108 united inches. Basic replacement window installation includes delivery of windows, removal and haul-away of old windows (local disposal fees may be required), and caulking and insulating around openings. The $99 installation price does not include the cost of the products to be installed. The installation price is only valid for single-family residential properties and cannot be used on multi-family and/or commercial properties. Additional charges will apply for services not included in basic replacement window installation such as metal frame removal, removal of storm windows, wrapping and capping of trim and necessary repairs to window opening. Not valid on prior purchases. Mandatory in-home measurement fee (refundable upon project purchase) is required. Offer may not be available in all markets. See store for details."
So, for instance, the aluminum windows I want to replace would not fall under this plan.
might want to shop an install with them....
and get all the what ifs while yur there....
I have this knawing feeling that it is only for window placement in an RO and anything else is extra...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Maybe I oughta just sign up as a subcontractor for Lowes"
That's going to be an interesting business arrangement. You need/want/are getting $200 per opening and they are willing to pay you something less than $99 per opening. Let me know how you do it...I want to tap into some of that magic.
You will never be able to compete with Lowes on price. When the topic comes up and it will come up frequently, you have to have your rehearsed answer to that objection. If you deliver it well, that objection will always become a positive for you because you will get to explain some things about your company that builds value and explain the difference in a positive way for you.
The gist of the explanation is similar to explaining that the price of a car does not guarantee value. If it did, everyone would be driving a Yugo. No one would drive a Jaguar.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
since when does a Jag represent value....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I couldn't think of a high priced car that represent value...so pick your own value and insert ;).Ideally, the window sales guy will notice the cars in the driveway and use them as his example. If theres a Yugo in the driveway, he better not bother trying to sell them $200 installation services when they know that Lowes will do it for $99. That's wasted breath. If theres a Chevy in the driveway, he's got a chance. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
and if there is running Ford thast got all the spare money and then some...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
the Yugo owner are usually way better customers and easier to deal with...
the flatuance on display types usually mean the owners will try to get you to help them keep it that way at yur expense...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I agree...as long as they don't know they can get Lowes to install for $99. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Every one should have a hobby to work on! I know I had an early one!
I have my ford....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
He would probably be getting closer to 50 dollars per opening working for them.
That would be my guess too Tim. Additionally, the vendor will PAY LOWES FOR THE "exclusive" right to install for them for that store. At least that's what a paint contractor here told me. He used to be the regional manager that hired the vendors. He also told me that the vendors are always the one's caught holding the bag when a problem arises. In Lowe's opinion, the customer is always right and they are always right. The only guy left is the vendor who has to do all service, whether it's their fault or the homeowner's or Lowes for free. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
That was part of my question as well. Does the subcontracted installer actually get $99.00 per opening. Or is Lowes taking a loss on the install, giving the sub $150.00 per opening. Or is the Sub only getting $50 per opening.
I know that the local HD Sub is paying his subs/employess $75.00 per opening. He has been advertising for help pretty aggressively, and not getting a lot of takers. I wonder what he is getting from HD.
I was hoping some big box subs would pipe in and let us know what how well the arrangement works from their perspective. I saw the local Lowes window sub picking up an order and asked him some questions about the arrangement. He wouldn't divulge prices, but did say that he is doing well and plans to continue subbing for Lowes. He reccmndd that I try to get on with the new Lowes in our area, as he had that one all locked up.
Thanks for the car analogy, I haven't thought of selling myself from that point of view.
"Or is Lowes taking a loss on the install,"Hahahahahahahahahaha!Stop it, you're killing me. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
"Thanks for the car analogy, I haven't thought of selling myself from that point of view."There was a recent thread on objections in the Biz folder. There's a few gems in there, not as many as I had hoped for. Add some if you have any. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
so you've been there...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Wish I had some gems. For me, the toughes part of self employment is tooting my own horn. I am naturally quiet and introverted. I don't speak well in general, and come across as fake when I try to extoll my virtues. I especially have trouble when I am dealing with potential clients that are way below my tax bracket or just above my tax bracket. I ain't sayin it's right, I'm just sayin it is. I am workin' on it, I just don't have a good way to get the training.
Any advice there?
Yes. I have some advice. Fire your salesperson and hire one that isn't afraid to toot your horn. Get one that is comfortable talking to all socio-economic groups. Get one that is ambitious, aggressive and willing to put in extra hours especially when sales are slow. Make sure they are friendly, driven, interested in the business and enthusiastic. Thats what I did. We are on pace to double last years gross sales with a significant improvement in gross profit.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
One man show here. I network with other one man shows to accomplish projects that require 2-3 guys. We all help each other out. If I get a larger project, I go into GC mode and sub the major trades.
I'm the only salesperson I have. I aim to be big enough to have someone else be the public relations face, but it will be awhile. I can coordinate trades, write contracts, bid with precision, be the P.M. and onsite super, the accountant behind the desk, and even back up a trailer. ;) But I definitely need help learning to deal with the public.
"I aim to be big enough to have someone else be the public relations face, but it will be awhile."It will be never if you continue to rely on someone that "definitely need help learning to deal with the public". You are recognizing a deficiency but standing pat. How's that working so far? Do you not see any value in the things you are good at? If you do see value in them, so would a good salesperson. That is what they would sell. Set them up on a commission only basis. Give them 25% of the gross profit. If you are pricing your jobs right, they will be making 10% of he gross contract but it will be important for them to sell at full price without missing anything or giving anything away. It's much easier to find someone to sell for you than you think. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Jim,
I am recognizing the deficiency, yet I am not standing pat. Not sure what I said to make you think that. I watch those who can sell ice to eskimos, and learn what I can. Not sure charisma can be learned, but I'm gonna try.
I absolutely see the value I bring to my projects. I've learned from the best and the worst. I do charge a slight bit more than the next person, but I make it worth it to the client.
I would try hiring a sales person, just gotta find one first.
Standing pat might not be the correct term. You seem to think that your efforts to learn how to sell is more than standing pat. Technically, it is, so we agree on that. I guess I would suggest to you that we are who we are and each of us possess unique talents. Selling is a unique talent and therefore, I suscribe to the theory laid out in the book First, Break all the Rules. In that book, they studied the habits of 50,000 managers to find out what the best ones did or didn't do. One of the suggestions coming from that book is to hire the best talent for the job that you are trying to fill. What does that mean? It means that if you are looking for a sales person, and three people apply, choose the one with the talent for sales. Some managers would choose the person with the most degrees. Some would choose the person with the most experience. Some would choose youth, some gender, some personality. The best managers hire the talent. They don't hire the smartest person then try to train them. So, when I hear you saying "I'm not good with people and I need to learn more", I'm really hearing you say "My talent is best suited for the work and managing the subs. I relate well with them and get the job done efficiently." So, my suggestion would be just that. Concentrate on your strengths and hire out your weaknesses. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
A good book is something that will keep me thinking for a long time. I will find that book and peruse it.
Thanks
Have you tried joining a local toastmaster club? They help you become a better speaker, and you may find more clients among them once they know you.
you wrote:
Wish I had some gems. For me, the toughes part of self employment is tooting my own horn. I am naturally quiet and introverted. I don't speak well in general, and come across as fake when I try to extoll my virtues. I especially have trouble when I am dealing with potential clients that are way below my tax bracket or just above my tax bracket. I ain't sayin it's right, I'm just sayin it is. I am workin' on it, I just don't have a good way to get the training.
Any advice there?
I've not heard of a toastmaster club. If we don't have one by that name, there must be something similar. I'm gonna look into that.
Thanks
I cannot compete with Lowes HD or any large corp who has two dozen laborers
not skilled tradesmen sticking windows into holes. A person who hires LOwes or HD to do the job might as well hire the kids down the street ,IMHO. Dont do it for anything less than you think the job warrants. To do it any cheaper means you would have to cut corners and you dont want to be known as the cheapest guy in town
Two hispanic guys put in some carpet for me from HD. They got half of the install dollars. I asked why didnt they do business on their own. He said he couldnt afford the $1000 a month for a bond.
Tell the H.O. to simply get a full estimate from Lowes or H.D. and they just might be surprised to find out that your estimate was better to begin with.
Never fear the box stores, their whole approach to this is marketing, like offering a really low price just to bring you in.
http://joes-stuff1960.blogspot.com/
They probably pay the installer the "standard" rate and eat the difference as a promotional cost (maybe splitting it with the manufacturer.)
Remember Mary Dyer, a Christian Martyr (Thank you, Puritans)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Dyer
May your whole life become a response to the truth that you've always been loved, you are loved and you always will be loved" Rob Bell, Nooma, "Bullhorn"
They guarentee me 40 a week and I will take the contract. I think that the price is just a vinyl replcement install. If you don't have to replace the blindstop, it's between a 20-30min job each. Man with a helper could make out well under those terms.
First find out what exactly Lowes is doing for $99.00 and what, if any, extra charges apply.
Then explain to your customers everything that you do, that lowe's doesn't do, and explain how long it takes, the more detail you can provide about the quality of your installation the better. Most homeowners will have no idea as to how to properly install a window and probably think a window install is a window install.
Ask them if Lowes sounds so good anymore, and if they would rather have it done properly or cheaply.
If they still bite on lowes, you don't want to work them and they get what they deserve. I'd like to qualify my statements that I have no idea how lowes installs windows and if they are any good, but you can't get much for $99.00. The other option is lowes is using installs as a loss-leader to sell more windows.
my thoughts anyway.
Talked to a guy the other day that said crews are installing replacement windows for $30 a piece in Hudson Co, NJ. He said that he's losing money on every job to compete with labor costs like that, time to get some more upscale work I'd think.
This reminds of the old Earl Sheib $99 paint job.
What ever happened to Earl? Havent seen him around lately.
If you ever saw one of Earls paint jobs you would know why.
There are plenty of good bodyshops still in business, and charging $$$ for it.
I havent seen the Lowes $99 installation, but I'll guess its a quick sash replacement with el- cheapo vinyls. Labor only. The rotten sill or brickmold will still need replacing and painting, and add more $$$ to wrap it.
I dont see a good value here, kind of like taking the Jag-wear to Earl.
Actually ES used to start at $29.95.This came up in the truck painting add. They are still around, but more limited areas.Still have multiple levels of paint jobs starting at $269 up to $769 plus extras..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Wow, 29.95 was bfore my time. I didnt know they were still around.I did hear they charge extra to wash the car and cover the tires, LOL.The runs and paint on the trim is still free as always.
Edited 7/12/2008 11:58 am ET by wood4rd
Wow, 29.95 was bfore my time. I didnt know they were still around.
I'm a year or so younger then you but when I moved to the city I remember ES signs at $29.99, seamed every year or so the price went up another $10. Didn't know they were still in business either.
Never did know anybody that admitted that they took their car there to be painted though!
Doug
the Springs and Denver have those outlets..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I knew some people who used ES for paint. The rule was, whatever you brought them they painted. If you did a decent prep and got the car there clean it wasn't a horrible job but it was still one coat.
If you brought them a car with bugs in the front and didn't either remove or mask the chrome, they shot it bugs and all. As for windows, I am not sure you get a great job from more expensive places. We were curious about some of these companies and had a couple salesmen come out. (New Code and another smaller guy) Most replacement windows do seem to fit inside your existing finished opening. They brag about not disturbing the finish. They seemed pretty soft on questions like "what do you do when the existing bucking is rotten"?
They also were more than twice the price we ended up paying through my wife's construction folks, even on the new construction windows and doors we have in our addition. (3 MI windows and Windoor 8000 corner slider all impact rated) It was over $20,000 vs the $9541 we paid, installed.
This is a classic case of "The large print giveth, but the fine print taketh away!"
Most of the work needed to actually "finish" the job will be "extras" so the real cost will be much higher than $99.
Give the customer a detailed list of everything included in your offering then have them get Lowes (or HD) bid to your "specification". Don't be surprised to find that you're very competitive.