Local here just did a revamp of the store. Sold off all the old kitchen displays cheap and changed the location to another area of the floor.
Bought in all new cabinet displays that look like sh!t. Every one of them excepting one which was a darkened ‘trying for an off white antique looking’ finish is a dark tone. Wood and manmade materials alike. Dark, dark and then more dark.
What is that? Is it a new trend for this year or what?
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Replies
What is that? Is it a new trend for this year or what?
Probably.
It's what was cheapest on the boat from China.
Politics: the blind insulting the blind.
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man... i have to defend cabinets from china... as anyone who has stopped by my place will tell you... the fit, finish, quality of materials is outstanding... all wood...& plywood... no pressed board... no "printed on wood grain" insides as well finished as the outside... on top of that the forthought that went into them is outstanding...
no one says cars from Japan are junk anymore...
p
no one says cars from Japan are junk anymore... No, they are all junk now.
i'm waiting for some pics and assembly reports on those cabs you bought. when you was talking about ordering those i thought it was one kick butt idea.
i hadn't heard anything ,i thought maybe they was still in the warehouse.larryif a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
Ponytl with cabinet door.
Ponytl's cabinets in boxes. He had just unloaded and sorted them when I stopped by last summer.
Sounds like the same cabs I used maybe 4 years ago. Ordered online from "SUNCO".Solid Oak doors and face frames. Oak veneer boxes on 7(?) layer ply. Shipped flat.
i ordered a container load out of china... doors prehung in the face frame... all the wall cabs can be rt ot left... just flip em over... total time to put one together (i glue but it's not required) just under 4 min on a wall cab... I've yet to have a missing part or a blemish... go figure.... yes shipped flat.... have these really cool little metal locking clips where they snap together then you add a screw... i add a few brads also...
p
I GUARANTEE that the Blowes cabinets are Nowhere near the quality of yours.the plywood sides alone are probably a special order that takes 14 weeks and comes wrong and damaged..
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"After the laws of Physics, everything else is opinion" -Neil deGrasse Tyson
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.
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If Pasta and Antipasta meet is it the end of the Universe???
the plywood sides alone are probably a special order that takes 14 weeks and comes wrong and damaged.
BTW, did you know that for an independent showroom, general delivery times from most of the big box's "name" cabinet lines average 3 weeks? Lowes/HD take a minimum of 6 weeks. Been told it's because so many people order on CC, they wait to make sure a billing cycle passes before releasing the order.
I've seen a KD line from China carried by a distributor in TN, and it is a very impressive product. Nice doors, pretty hand glazing....all produced for the American market in a country with no environmental responsibility, extremely cheap labor, etc. All this means that the builders can buy really, really, cheap and sell at the same price they would if they were buying American-made product and make more money.
I like to make more money, too, but I'd rather do it by selling my locally made cabinets that help keep people in my community employed.
Made in China products are just like anywhere else, you get what they're told to make.
I have a friend there who made a business of organizing shipment for overseas buyers. The go there to do the shopping and she arranges the shipping, also helps them with the shopping by translating, advising and such. Some of her clients buy the cheapest #### they can find while others want only the best and are willing to pay for it (albeit at much lower prices than the very best would cost elsewhere).
Some years ago it was pretty much true, that almost anything made in China was junk. At that time most of the companies made and sold their own products. It's different now, as much of the products are made to spec by overseas buyers. So, when a product is junk, that's often what the buyer specified. In other words, if Lowes is selling junk that's made in China, it's because they specified junk. Can't blame the Chinese manufacturer for delivering what they were hired to make.
It's kind of like on a jobsite. When you see crappy workmanship, slacking workers, etc.. don't blame the workers. They're only doing what is expected of them. It's the person in charge (forman, general contractor, builder..) who is ultimately responsible for qualtiy control. --------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at AWorkOfWood.com
Made in China products are just like anywhere else, you get what they're told to make.
only till the product passes the buyer's QC and the order for production is secured...
seems the chinese don't think twice of changing suppliers and subs to get it out the door cheaper ...
look at Matel and a few others recently....
manufacture a product to specs...
get it accepted...
change the specs and do not advise the client...
happens over and over again...
read up on the lead in everything and how it got there....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
This happens because it's allowed to happen. If they knew it would lose the business they would think twice about cheaping out on the specs. But they've learned over time that the buyers of their products tend to turn a blind eye, more concerned about getting the products on the shelf. In the case of Matel, who was in charge of making sure the products produced in China remain up to spec? Where was the quality control at the buyer's end?
Manufacturers under contract will deliver whatever is accepted and a contract is only as good as the one enforcing it. Even if Lowes (or anyone else) specified a mid-range qualty but recieved something less, it's because Lowes accepted it. The contractor is ultimately responsible for making sure the job gets done right. --------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at AWorkOfWood.com
that was a lot of words to say that you condone the manufacturer attemts to rip off the client "if you can get away with something, go for it"... cause it's cool to eat dunf because 500 bazillion flies can't possibly be wrong....
this tends to be more the norm from the chinese manufacturer and their subs.... they do this with products that put our health and lives at risk... kill yur pets....
BTW .. Matel didn't let them get away with it... nor did a lot of other customers.... a bit late but they were busted... hence the recalls...
why is it their goods are refused admittance at one of our ports here and all they do is try to get them into another port with modifications to the original paper worh??? sometimes as many as 5 or 6 trys.... if that doesn't work set up a different importer here or try to bring them in thru Mexico and/or Canada...
scruples are only a word to them if that... and eat dung...
guess you and I are done here....
EOS....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
that was a lot of words to say that you condone the manufacturer attemts to rip off the client "if you can get away with something, go for it"...
I didn't condone anything. Just pointed out that if Lowes is selling poor quality cabinets that are made in China, it's because they ordered poor quality cabinets, not because they are made in China. Don't put words in my mouth that I didn't say.
Now we're done.--------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at AWorkOfWood.com
Actually the in stock cabinets at Lowe's are American manufactured, can't speak for the materials tho.
Yeah!.
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"Thank goodness for the Democrats! If you are terminally unemployable, enjoy living off of govt welfare and feel you owe society nothing you're in luck: there is a donkey waiting for you."
I've heard the same thing about people spec'ing junk from China. And you're right, factories are going to produce whatever is ordered.
But the cabinets I saw, while certainly not premium construction, were typical knock-down quality. And the doors and finishes, though limited, seemed of nice quality. However, at the time I wasn't in the market and didn't pursue exact specs on the wood or finishes, so I can't make a comparison there.
I don't know what Lowes been buying recently, but theirs and HD's featured lines all have different construction options. But, when I trained at HD, no one spent 30 seconds talking about them. Their designers sell the cabinets assuming the customer could care less about what's inside.
Used to be all the big box cabinets were divisions of Masco (I think) Industries.
that sounds nice... in my case I'm the builder, designer, planner, contractor, developer, bricklayer, installer of... everything...
When you are spending someone elses money it's easy to be noble... how many customers would you keep if you told them... listen... I'm charging you 10k more because i like this guy down the road... when in fact... everyone in the world is the "guy down the road" you just happen to have a smaller view of the world...
p
In my case I'm the designer, planner, buyer, specifier, and on and on, just like you. I just don't install - too old to pick those suckers up, or I'd like it.
I'm not noble at my customer's expense. But my rules are that I don't recommend or sell anything I wouldn't have in my own home, and if I can't get my customer what they want at a price they can afford, I'll be happy to refer them to someone who might. In that case, it might be the supplier that has the Chinese product. The decision not to sell the product is mine. The decision not to buy the product is my customer's.
What I was referring to is a situation I know first hand, because the builders in this area hop from one supplier to another for cheaper and cheaper. If they could get cabinets at the guaranteed lowest price buying them from a manufacturer using forced labor, I'm sure they would. And smile all the way to the bank....
And, no, I don't have a good opinion of most builders here. No reason to.
I'm the installer...
and I ain't getting any younger! :)--------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at AWorkOfWood.com
I hear ya!
BTW, Chicago's my home town, but been a long time since I've lived there.
My installer, Mike, is probably in his late 30's now. He says it's not the years, it's the miles!
If you ever stop by be sure to look me up. We can have some coffee and talk dirt about other breaktimers. :)
I've also learned to watch for the glassing over of customers eyes. Some are totally entranced with every detail about materials, products and methods. Others just want to hear how nice it will look when I'm done (or how much it costs, how long it takes, etc..). I really enjoy discussing in detail all the aspects of my work, but to a lot of customers it's like going through their least favorite school subject all over again. I've learned some time ago when to cut to the chase and just tell them what they want to know. --------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at AWorkOfWood.com
Believe it or not, I've read at least twice in the past month or so that the trend is dark.
[email protected]
So much for trends.
Click here for access to the Woodshed Tavern
Click here to visit the beginning of Breaktime
So where'd ya put all the old cabinets?[email protected]
heh heh NO SALE!
be but to be truthful I thought about it
Click here for access to the Woodshed Tavern
Click here to visit the beginning of Breaktime
ur slipping.
insert picture of rez on playground slide here.[email protected]
My money says if those cabinets are sitting there in two or three days rez will own em!
Doug
I believe he has been patrolling the dumpster on an hourly basis.[email protected]
more lokely he set up camp in the dumpster...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
You guys are just makin' fun of me because I made some economy ditra out of a roll of orange plastic snow fence.
Click here for access to the Woodshed Tavern
Click here to visit the beginning of Breaktime
Edited 4/30/2008 9:03 pm ET by rez
I knew if I waited long enough my old dark kitchen cabinets would be coming into vogue again. Have they started selling the Avocado or Harvest gold appliances yet? gonna be styling here. ;-)
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Actually Samsung has come out with a chocolate brown washer dryer that is supposed to be the cats meow. I suppose it spread to the refrigerators next. The also is a yellwish gold high end ge wshers and dryer. And......from your fave vacuum cleaner maker, Electrolux appliance, got a sotve than can boil water in 90 seconds.
from your fave vacuum cleaner maker, Electrolux appliance, got a sotve than can boil water in 90 seconds
I'm always amazed by the stupid shows on TV touting the next big thing, including the "new" Electrolux induction cooktop.
My first job in K&B design was in 1981, and guess what.... we had an induction cooker installed in a display. So much for new!
It did actually work great, but it was really pricey, and ain't cheap now. I wish I'd had the opportunity to really use it. I have heard that it's not very energy efficient, tho.
As for the chocolate brown appliances, ......? Why, for that matter would anyone want the appliance mfr's version of "oil rubbed bronze"?? These people, and the others producing faucets, light fixtures, etc have never seen the real thing. Apparently, neither have most consumers.
""oil rubbed bronze" Not only seen the real deal but used to produce the finish. Most often the object with this type finish is rarely real bronze. Generally copper or brass plated object that was dipped into a solution of liquid sulfur. Oxidation is then wire brushed off the high spots then the item is buffed and lacquered to give the effect. A quick dip in a cyanide solution will remove it if the lacquer has also previously been removed.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Interesting! Kind of figured that most of the metal wasn't real bronze. Is this finish something made up recently or is it supposed to replicate something ancient?
Came across some beautiful oil-rubbed "something" hardware (butts, locksets, etc) when I was working for an architect a few years back. Really rich finish, pleasant to touch, almost no rub-through. I thought it was elegant and pretty much a timeless look. Love to have it myself, but it was 4x the cost of brushed chrome/steel.
Next experience, I was referred to a builder's model to look at the ORB plumbing fixtures. Brownish-black with copper showing through, big time tacky.
Real bronze oxidizes to a brown/black color. The "rubbed" part is simply wear pattern through the oxidization from handling over the course of years. Since bronze is 88% copper and 12% tin while brass is 90% copper and 10% zinc one can color the surface of the brass or copper plated object with rapid oxidization. Depth of color or extent of the oxidization is controlled thru either strength of the acid bath or time of the immersion. Too long and too strong and the oxidization will actually fall right off. The technique I was taught is old but only as old as electro-plating.
I have a great grandfather who used it back in 1870 or so . It would definitely have been possible for someone down through the ages to have noticed the effect of sulfur on brass or bronze and to use that effect to instantly create a protective oxidization on the object even many centuries ago.
It is an attempt to mimic the look of the natural patinas and oxidization that occurs through age and handling and to give the impression of age. Age=Value so this is a form of instant antiquing. Silver can be, and in fact is, "aged" using the same techniques. Doing an artful job of creating the finish means having a good eye as to where the human hand would rub or touch an object through daily use or cleaning and how deep to make the color and then only buffing gently though the oxidation in those areas and not overly polish at the same time.
The really nice stuff we handled in fact was hand rubbed down with an lightly oiled rag at the end of the process to help blend the finish and allow the person doing the work to see just what the finish would look like after lacquering. After that the piece was once again cleaned (degreased) then lacquered to protect the finish from scratches and damage.
Naturally occurring oxidization has a flat appearance, the oil which gives the polished look, would have come from the hands of the people handling the piece over the years. The really cheap stuff with a "looks like it finish" is not done this way . I believe it is done through applied finishes. OK , probably more than you ever wanted to know. But there ya go.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
OK , probably more than you ever wanted to know
Actually, in my case there's almost no such thing as "more than you ever wanted to know". (Well, wait, there are some personal areas of life on which I prefer ignorance)
I have to be careful when I'm talking with customers for the glazed-over eyes that mean I have now given them more info than they can process. Since it's my business to know construction techniques, materials, etc. and make qualified comparisons for a customer, I sometimes forget I don't actually need to impart all this info to them!
So, you just go on and explain away...I'm listening!!
Funny you should mention "oil rubbed bronze". In all the lighting lines I rep that's just palin old paint. Typical Lowe's customer want a genuwine ORB finsih for about 39.99 a fixture, not happening.
Most of the Lowe's carry stock cabinets in unfinsihed oak, finished oak, and white. Not top of the line but a least the interiors are finished unlike Deopt's ####. I have seen a darker stock line in one Lowe's called Napa, doesn't look too bad.
I got budgeted about 3,000 for my new kitchen so I'm not looking for custom cabs, can't aford them.
Have some unfinished Lowe's birch cabinets from around 2000 in my living room. We needed something cheap when we first moved in, so used sink bases on the bottom and cabinets made for stereo equipment on top to create built-ins.
Not bad looking and serviceable, but impossible to finish nicely. I'll be adding some trim and painting them soon to upgrade the look.
I've seen the stock oak Lowe's carries. For the price it's pretty good product. Much better than the "all-wood" garbage someone put in this house.
Haven't seen the Napa around here; I'll look next time I get to Lowe's.
It's usualy in the newer and also "upscale" Lowe's stores.
I know all about the #### that passes for ORB and other finishes in Lowe's. I am a vendor rep for lighting and I build all the fixtures you see on display. Even the polished brass will flake off if you breathe too hard on it.
I would say 90% of the "antique" finishes are just paint but once you slap it on hte ceiling and get a little dust on it nobody's gonna notice.
Wait, there's an "upscale" Lowes? Is it like the Home Expo?
Had a friend who was a vendor rep for lighting at HD; know what that's about. Seemed like a lot of hard work; hope the $$ is good.
I'm trying to steer my builder away from the ORB, "antique" whatever. Usually it means a bunch of glommed-on finish over a really horrendous design. His lighting "consultant" at the showroom favors over-wrought iron and the like, usually way too big for the space, with the ugliest globes available.
Really a shame, there are so many good designs available.
Money's all right, better what 90% of the store employees.
An "upscale" Lowe's is one that is located in a high income area. The demographics of the area lead to more of the upscale product lines.
The kitchen display area is usually bigger too.
One of the benefits to the job is getting to give customers advice that actually helps them unlike the clowns that work for the store.
It did actually work great, but it was really pricey, and ain't cheap now. I wish I'd had the opportunity to really use it. I have heard that it's not very energy efficient, tho.
Well, you sure can't upgrade it to NG <G>
So, you nead a pile of amps to drive the induction coils to get the 'speed' of heat responce most cooks want.
Worst part for people marketing to "foodies" is that it only works with iron and steel cookware--so much for that expensive collection of Alclad . . .
That being said, induction and an enameled steel pot will simmer like nobody's business, and only the pot is heating up the kitchen. Were it me, I'd want a gas hob adjacent to start the boil.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I'd heard that these things required a lot of amps.
Maybe Heier (sp) will start making one!! Let's see, every one of their appliances is at the bottom of the Consumer Reports ratings.
I'm getting my favorite, gas, when I replace my miserable electric smoothtop. Even if I could afford the induction, those cast iron pans are getting too heavy and enamel over steel is an invitation to disaster in my kitchen!
getting my favorite, gas, when I replace my miserable electric smoothtop
Well, consider my "price is no object" plan. That would be a two burner electric next to a two burner gas (and, in true ultimate fashion would have a convertable pair as well). Gives the excellent speed & efficiciency of gas with the low and slow, sustainable of electric.
At one point I had that narrowed down to a downdraft 2 burner and a matching "hob"--grille/griddle steals the elegance a bit, but that's survivable.
I hear you on cast iron--mine is only for cornbread in the oven or over charcoal. But, I love my enameled steel le creuset--it's about the only thing I can cook rice in over gas (even with a diffuser/simmer plate).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
get an Elmira...
http://www.elmirastoveworks.com/
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
My "price is no object" plan is a live-in chef!
Actually I like to cook, but I get frustrated by electric only. I do agree that a combo is the most suitable for a serious cook or just a picky one like me.
I'm going to try a piece the LeCreuset to see how I feel. My experience previously was with a cheap steel-enamel line and a worse electric cooktop. I ended up throwing away the entire set almost because I literally welded the food to the bottom of the pans!
Wow, cornbread cooked over charcoal...can I invite myself??
Wow, cornbread cooked over charcoal.
Not often, mind you; and it gets a swirl of brown sugar and dark Karo to make a dessert course after the steaks are done (hates a quinelle of haagen-daz Coffee <g>).
Used to have a CI muffin pan, but that was foolishly loaned out <grrrr> . . .
..can I invite myself??
Sure, why not. <g> It only being May, you'd likely get savory from the oven <g>.
Hmm, 'bout 11 hours' down 10, Pensacola to here--might be enough lead time to get the charcoal right <g>Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
mmm...steak....
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"Thank goodness for the Democrats! If you are terminally unemployable, enjoy living off of govt welfare and feel you owe society nothing you're in luck: there is a donkey waiting for you."
might be enough lead time to get the charcoal right <g>
Had that trouble with charcoal myself, but it beats heck out of propane!
BTW, Huntsville is gearing up this week for our barbecue cook-off and festival.
Ya'll come!
susie,
Don't waste your money on LeCrueset, instead look for the Lodge line of enameled. I got one for my birthday and use it to bake bread( a no knead recipe from Cook's magazine) and it works great. Looks really good in the red color too!
Only thing you have to do is replace the pheloic know with a round kitchen drawer pull if you're going to use it in an oven over 400 degrees.
Best of all, it was 40 on sale not like 250 for the same in LeCrueset.
J.
Never heard of Lodge...where'd you get it?
Akkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk........never heard of Lodge? That's me falling out of my chair. Lodge is like the number one seller of plain old cast iron cookware.
I got mine at Cabela's the World's Largest Outdoor Outfitter.
Here's a link, it's available in brown, red, and blue
http://www.cabelas.com
There is a more deluxe when availalbe that still cheaper than LeCrueset
J.
Edited 5/5/2008 9:51 pm ET by leftisright
I had a sales person in William+Sonma trying to sell me
an All Clad frying pan.
No thanks I like my old Lodge cast iron pan.
I had to laugh when she said- Oh, Lodge those are the best!
Funny to hear that in the land overpriced cookware.
Yah I know, the Lodge I was telling Susie about I got on sale for 40 buckes goes for over 300+ in the LeCrueset name. Even my mother in law the former home ec teacher and county extension agent says its just as good. Just about the only good old American made thing you can find these days.
Very cool! Thanks a bunch for saving me $$$$.
Only cast iron cookware I've ever had experience with is my MIL's old, well-used and well-seasoned skillets. I don't know who got those when she passed away, but I'd sure like to have had one!
Be betting they were Lodge!!
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
If you look around you will also see the regular Lodge cast iron, most of it comes preseasoned now. Funny how the old fasioned "non stick" cookware works so well these days.
most of it comes preseasoned now
Note, though, that's only "pre" seasoned--you still want to devote sometime to seasoning that new buy. You need not schedule a whole day to the task as in days of old.
Does make a good excuse to make a big batch of quesadillas or the like, though <g>Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Yeah well bear fat is hard to come by unlike in the old days :o)
Yeah well bear fat is hard to come by unlike in the old days
Well, you can get manteca in the store on the oil-n-shortening aisle (mave have to turn the Armor box aroundto find the "lard" label).
Baking that lard into the ironware can give a house a unique aroma, too (handy to have m/w bacon handy <g>
And, I have to admit to liking seasoning to just about the "water beads on it cold" sort of strength . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
If they are from China, they're probably dark because of all the lead staining them!
"Objects in mirror appear closer than they are."
Klakamp Construction, Findlay, Ohio - just south of the Glass City
That sound you hear is me applauding your point!
The people who work in the factories that turn out these cabinets probably also can't breathe the air for miles around.
I've been seeing a lot of dark finishes (most ugly because they're done on maple with little prep) in cabinet lines recently. Haven't seen anything in the big boxes recently. One of my lines has produced 2 really good-looking dark finishes this year, both on maple, one with red undertones and the other a charcoal. Nice accents, but I can't figure a whole kitchen in them.
Around here the owner's picks for cabinets in new houses are running 90% light maple. People still like off-white, and glazes are popular. I tell my customer to do what they like; who cares what the rest of the fashionistas think.
I'd be curious to see what percentage of this new "trend" the big boxes actually sell. Apparently Lowe's and HD haven't caught on to the fact that they're not the harbingers of design they imagine themselves.