Replies

1. 
   MSA1 | Nov 15, 2006 02:56am | #1

   Personally i've found that i'm more pricey than premades. Think about it. they're set up to make cabinets all day. They have miles of preripped face stock and all the jigs you may need.

   I'll make them if its a special application or an odd size cabinet but other than that I just buy them premade.

2. 
   dryhter | Nov 15, 2006 03:09am | #2

   Hey,

    

   A tuffer question than you might think to answer.

   But....., Do you have a shop? Equipped?Buying from suppliers or other?

   Can you Finish the cabinets? How much room do you have ?

   I can usually build a cabinet for alot less than I could buy it, But by the time I finish it, it costs about the same as what I could buy it for, if that makes sense.

   What I can do, that you can't buy, is make oddball sizes,custom details, and any thing you may think of.

   Materials are the inexpensive part of the equation and the labor is your own. So go buy a sheet of _________ (your choice) and build something, All your questions will be answered. And you will have the experience to reflect back on.

   DPR

3. 
   nikkiwood | Nov 15, 2006 03:30am | #3

   Kitchen cabinets are a commodity item, and it is very difficult for an individual to compete with factory made items.

   If you have a well-equipped shop, the requisite skills, and the desire to do cabinet work, you might do quite well by spreading the word that you are available for custom projects -- the kind of stuff of a size and style that someone cannot easily buy off the shelf.

   Personally, I have found the money is better in remodeling than cabinetmaking.

   ********************************************************
   "It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."

   John Wooden 1910-

1. 
   CapnMac | Nov 16, 2006 11:03pm | #17

   and it is very difficult for an individual to compete with factory made items

   Wow, that's exactly the opposite of the claim the local factory builders makes <g>.

   As with most japes, there's some truth there.  A factory thrives on "sameness," but houses, even to identical plans, tend to "uniqueness."

   I know of a small shop (3 hands) where they just picked a vacuum bagger so that they can better laminate veneers on MDF & MDO--those veneers being "mapped" across entire runs of cabinets in an almost geologically-striated effect.  Not something a factory could turn out well at all.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

4. 
   IdahoDon | Nov 15, 2006 03:52am | #4

   As others have said, competing with shops that do this full time is tough, especially since many of the kids working in cabinet shops are making less than $10/hr.

   It does make sense to build custom sizes, built-in furniture, and short notice items.  Also, matching an existing odd-ball cabinet can be tough if it's not homebrewed.

   A huge advantage to building cabinets yourself is the flexibility in routing over, around and through pipes, wires, and ductwork.

   To young finish carps I recommend finding a basic style of carcuss construction, face frame and hinge that works for them and stick with it to minimize the amount of rethinking required for a project.  So instead of a carp working out the dimensions for an hour for a single cabinet it only takes 10 min.  Many times a traditional cabinet will work for 80% of all situations.

    

   Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.

5. 
   Summit | Nov 15, 2006 04:11am | #5

   You could check out Conestoga (conestogawood.com) they make a cabinet system, I think it comes knock down.  One my GC's uses it for built-ins, libraries, etc...  He still buys kitchens, vanities from me.  Finishing is definately a big concern and can gobble up a lot of time.

   This particular gent has a well equiped shop and maybe 3 guys. When he sets up to do cabinets, that's all the shop produces.  Then it's back to installing,trimming, etc...

6. 
   USAnigel | Nov 15, 2006 04:31am | #6

   After seeing some of the cabinets from the so called high end makers. I went my own way.

   Not bothered to make face frame cabinets, too many parts, stuck with a standard euro box made from five pieces of plywood prefinished one side for most.

   I use Sheetlayout for getting the most from each 4x8, as a bonus it makes cutting much quicker.

   Delta 13 spindle drill press for the shelf pegs. Well worth the money.

   Doors from Walzcraft. No way can I meet their price and top notch product in what ever size I give them.

    

7. 
   DonK | Nov 15, 2006 05:34am | #7

   I've worked on cabinets before, and have built small cabinets and parts of kitchens. A few weeks ago, I decided that the redo I was on warranted custom cabinets and I figured it would take a week or so.

   The cabinets are done, and installed. Countertops are in, and most of the doors are finally ready to be sanded and finished. Framed maple cabinet with overlay doors. (I'm not happy with three of the doors and will likely rework them.)

   It took lots longer than I planned - not weeks but too many days. [We switched to outside work to grab the wweather.] Learning curve can be steep at the bottom. Some of the tools and supplies are expensive and getting the jigs set up to do the job right is a pain, especially the first time or two. 

   I know I would not have gotten the same cabinets if I had purchased them, and I'm proud of what I'm doing. It's an experience, one that I'm glad I did. I know I'll be building another kitchen in a couple  months when we get down to the new house in VA.

   A couple years ago I did a hose for resale. I needed some doors and had them made. At the last minute, two more doors needed to be replaced and when I went back to the door maker, he refused under any circumstances to hurry the order - 8 weeks. I had a closing. I went out and got the oak, the bits, set up and made them myself. It was close to impossible to tell the difference. Being self-reliant is a good thing.

   OTOH, a friend of mine had a shop and did woodworking including cabinets for about 20 years. He said he'll do the installs now and doesn't bother with the cabinetmaking. Makes more money too.

   Don K.

   EJG Homes     Renovations - New Construction - Rentals

8. 
   JDRHI | Nov 15, 2006 06:40am | #8

   If you plan on making your own cabinets, you will also have to start planning to have others do the rest of the projects on the rehabs.

   Unless of course you are also planning on cutting the total completed per year in half.

   Just some food for thought.

   FREE SPONGE BOB,SANCHO PANTS!

9. 
   Jer | Nov 15, 2006 06:50am | #9

   I tried it and it's hard to turn a good buck, to compete with the stock stuff.  You gotta have a great shop set up.

10. 
    junkhound | Nov 15, 2006 07:04am | #10

    Blodgett needs to reply here, he even makes his own cabinet doors (or used to anyway).

    Since I have no business head, sure I'd lose $$$ trying to make doors for a living.  Have made a lot of teak, oak, and birch plywood doors, plus some walnut and oak paneled doors but only for own and relatives houses. They would cost at least 3X purchased door if any time was included, but most wood and hardware was free or close to it.

    Last run of doors was for DIL's craft room;  made 12 ea 30 inch by 4 foot cabinet door s out of 3/4 african plywood (wood was free) but it probably took 1-1/2 days (16 hours is my 1-1/2 day) total to  cut, rabbet, finish,  then transport and hang them all. Say $60 per door in time and overhead if pricing it all? Hardware at retail probably $50 equivalent gets it up to $64 per door, not even counting the cost of the wood.

    Of course, I'm old and slow?

11. 
    Jer | Nov 15, 2006 02:51pm | #11

    I found that if you want to build your own cabs and turn a buck, you really have to have the equipment and shop for real production work. This means quite an investment in equipment, and the sky is the limit there. This also means hiring people for specific stations and tasks in the shop as well as installations, and it ends up being more paperwork and managing than the hands on. If that's what you want, then go for it. I learned that it's very difficult for a single shop to compete with the high end stock cabs that are out there in today's market.

    However...If you want to have a smaller single man shop and make one of a kind or custom to fit cabs, you might find it easier to suppliment that with stock kitchen installations. That's what I eventually fell into doing for the years that I had my shop, custom builtins, one of a kind furniture pieces, architectural woodwork, unique projects that a small shop would usually handle. That is very satisfying because each job was different, I wasn't always standing in one place year in year out cranking out pieces for just kitchen cabs. One week I would be building a deck, the next would be making living room built ins, then restoring a Victorian porch, then making and copying the millwork for that porch etc etc. Once in a while somebody would want a complete kitchen and I would hire my buddies to help out.

    It sounds like you are pretty much a shop person. How big do you want to go? Kitchens only?

    Good luck.

12. 
    novitiate | Nov 16, 2006 05:43am | #12

    thanks for all the helpful advice. I think for my needs I'll stick to buying ready mades.  

1. 
   alwaysoverbudget | Nov 16, 2006 08:10am | #14

   i'm not a cabinet guy,just a landlord.but i just did a kitchen with a total of 21' of cabinets,plus the same in uppers. 1 L shape and one that was angled to clear a stairway from basement. took 2 days and it seems like 6 sheets of oak and probably 200' of oak stiles to build the carcasses. then ordered doors [23] cost on them was 1100. so with hardware i would guess i had about 2k and 3 days in building cabs and installing. another 2 days in finishing.probably could of bought pre made and hung them in a day and been done.but i like doing things the hard way!hand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.

13. 
    strongandco2 | Nov 16, 2006 06:08am | #13

    A relitively simple way of building your own cabinets is to use pre-fab kd cabinet boxes from someone like CABPARTS http://cabparts.com/main.html. They have a wide range of options and will also custom build boxes to any width, height, depth etc or to custom box designs based on your drawings. You can have the boxes shipped directly to the jobsite and put them together on site using std finish carpentry tools. You can also buy the hardware (euro hinges and slides and have them ship with the boxes. Cabparts will make slab doors but if you want Frame and Panel you can order them from a local/regional cabinet door mfg. Cabparts has a list of these suppliers or you could Google them. We typically have a painter pre-finish all of the doors, end panels, mouldings etc prior to installing the cabinets. This is a simple (not necessarly inexpensive) way to build custom cabinets with your finish crew on-site and keep the costs and controll in-house. Like many things the cost is a function of the complexity and detailing in the job and it becomes more cost effective as the job gets bigger and more complex. You are not going to compete on price with low end pre-fabs, but with some practice and organization you should be very competitive with higher-end pre-fabs and custom shops.

14. 
    mikeingp | Nov 16, 2006 08:40pm | #15

    I think you might find that buying the parts would cost you more than you think. My guess is that KitchenMaid pays a lot less for doors, given their volume, than you would from the same door maker. Same thing for hardware like slides and hinges. The other aspect, that you're probably aware of, but just in case, is the incredible precision required in kitchen cabinets. If the cabinets themselves are not perfectly sized and square, the installation becomes a nightmare.

15. 
    CapnMac | Nov 16, 2006 10:50pm | #16

    making own kitchen cabinets from quality plywood and purchased doors

    Sometimes the issue is in buying doors/drawer fronts that are as good as your carcasses are.

    You did not say whether you meant framed or frameless cabinets, either.

    If your market regularly uses (expects) frameless, reversing your plan can make a lot of sense.  That is, get pre-milled base, vanity, tall, & wall end panels; then fit those with shelves & doors of your own manufacture. 

    Door & drawer fronts are the most visible part of cabinetry, and really where a person can "sell" their aristry in woodworking.  The "average" customer may not appreciate the fineness of the carcass jointery if the doors you bought have obvious glue-lines and poor color & grain match in the doors.

    Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)