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Makita LS1013 Blade Brake

kweitguy | Posted in General Discussion on March 6, 2015 08:56am

This is rather simple. My LS1013 is probably 15 years old, maybe more. It has sat unused for the last 5 years. I brought it out the other day and disovered it wouldn’t start. I initially thought the switch, but through disassembly I discovered the brushes were stuck and there was a ‘haze’ of corrosion on parts that are susceptable. I replaced the brushes and cleaned it up lightly but thoroughly. It runs again but there is no blade brake. I’ve Googled and read countless pointers to get the brake operable again, but nothing has worked. Some ideas involved just running the saw for ‘x’ periods of time. One even said to run it for ten minutes which I couldn’t do – I managed to let it run for 3 or 4 minutes but longer didn’t feel right. Another was to swap the brushes and another was to flip the brushes. I did these despite the brushes were new.

Eventually I found this pdf which is as good a schematic of the LS1013 as I have found.  http://www.makita.nl/images/files/onderdelen/nl/LS1013L-TE.pdf  The problem for me is this pdf includes the LS1013L which is the Laser model and there is considerable difference in the wiring between the two.

This post is longer than I intended. Bottom line is does anyone know how the elctric brake works in the LS1013? In the disassembly of mine I didn’t see anything I wasn’t able to ID – sooo, I’m confused.

Thank you.

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Replies

  1. DanH | Mar 06, 2015 09:08pm | #1

    Have you determined if the brake switch is operating properly?

    1. kweitguy | Mar 06, 2015 09:14pm | #2

      Hello DanH. I have not determined if the brake switch is operating properly, because I haven't found the brake switch. In the linked pdf I have found 'a brake switch' noted, but it seems to be part of the 1013L model.

      I don't know, maybe I need to open it up again and look closer. Thank you for the reply.

      1. DanH | Mar 06, 2015 09:45pm | #3

        Well, can't help you with where it might be hiding.  Just saw it in the wiring diagram (which is otherwise indecipherable).

        1. kweitguy | Mar 06, 2015 11:09pm | #4

          Hey DanH,

          Yeah, I'll assume the one you saw is the same as I saw and I believe it may be part of the 1013L model. There is considerable more wiring in the diagram than actually exists in my 1013.

          I just checked with ToolParts Direct and checked their exploded view hoping to find a 'blade brake' item listed, but no such luck. For my model there is no 'blade brake' in their parts list. Hmmmm. Wondering now if it's part of the 'Controller' that sits on top of the armature, but wow, $58 - a little hard to imagine.

          Well, I appreciate your time anyway - thanks for taking a shot.

          Kweitguy

          1. DanH | Mar 06, 2015 11:24pm | #5

            One way to get braking action from a motor like that is to basically short the motor when turned off.  The motor acts like a generator as it "spins down", and shorting it drains the power faster and causes it to stop more quickly.

            This could be done through the switch, using some sort of a double-throw arrangement, or the controller module could do it, or some sort of separate switch.

            It's vaguely possible that something like an extra set of brushes would factor into this, and there might have been some sort of apparently useless appendage on the motor that you removed and didn't put back or didn't get back in the right arrangement, and it's really part of the brake system.

  2. junkhound | Mar 06, 2015 11:33pm | #6

    Stupid question, but did it have a brake before it was stored?  From the schematics, some models do not have a brake switch.

    edit - looks like Dan beat me to the brake definition.

    For models that do have a brake, check your brake switch to see if it is closed when the trigger is not pulled. 

    The brake appears to function by applying a short across the brushes by way of the brake switch when power is removed.

    Coasting motor thus acts as a generator, the short slows it down faster. 

    The internal contacts of the brake switch may be oxidized or damaged by arcing. 

    1. kweitguy | Mar 06, 2015 11:41pm | #7

      junkhound,

      Not a stupid question at all and I haven't mentioned one way or the other whether it had a brake prior to storage. Yes it did, it was a very effective brake as well meaning it spun the blade down fast.

      It's obvious to me at this point I'm going to have to open the motor housing up again and have another look around, checking connections etc.

      Sometimes I need someone that will listen to my head rattle so I can come up with plan 'B'. :) 

      kweitguy

      1. User avater
        coonass | Mar 08, 2015 05:03pm | #8

        Kweit,

        I don't know your saw but worked on a friends Makita sidewinder that he had messed up replacing the switch. The brake was a function of the switch where it momentaryly (sp) reverses current to the brushes. Blow out your switch and try some electrical contact cleaner before you replace.

        KK

        1. kweitguy | Mar 08, 2015 08:00pm | #9

          Hello c.a.,

          Today, I tore the switch handle and motor down to as small of pieces as they would go. I checked connections on the way in as well as put it back together slowly being sure to get it right. There is no individual brake switch on this machine. I figured maybe it was part of the controller, but no way to be sure and since they're about $60 I wasn't rolling the dice on that.

          So c.a., you say it's a function of the main switch ... well certainly hope so. The switch is about a third of what the controller costs - the switch is $18.50 .... more likely to roll the dice on $20.

          I'm grateful to have gotten the old saw going again, but I feel only partially successful without the brake working.

          1. User avater
            MarkH | Mar 08, 2015 08:09pm | #10

            How many wires go to the switch?

          2. kweitguy | Mar 08, 2015 10:35pm | #11

            MarkH,

            There are five. Just happen to have a photo of it. I usually take photos when taking things apart - make great reference when going back together.

          3. User avater
            MarkH | Mar 09, 2015 07:02am | #12

            OK, I'm guessing here, but you may have line and neutral both switched to the brushes, and the fifth wire shorts the brushes together when the trigger is released thus causing braking.  I would check the switch action out with an ohm meter. 

          4. kweitguy | Mar 09, 2015 09:49am | #13

            Hey MarkH,

            I appreciate your thoughts on this, and you may be on to something. My problem is using the ohm meter. I have a Multi-Meter which includes an ohm function but this is one area I fall miserably short in understanding.

            I'll see if I can find a crash course on the internet to at least learn enough to test the switch.

          5. kweitguy | Mar 09, 2015 09:21pm | #14

            Hey MarkH,

            Well, I haven't been able to find a sufficient 'primer' on using an Ohm meter (multi-meter in my case) to diagnose my switch. I figure at this point I'll roll the dice on a new switch. Switch and shipping is about $26, I figure it's a fair bet considering I can't find anything else that it could be. Must be the switch - at worst I'll be the owner of two good switches - :) . I have a drawer out in the shop loaded with spare parts, so what's one more piece. hehe!

          6. User avater
            coonass | Mar 10, 2015 09:50pm | #15

            kweit,

            Q uick primer. All the ohm meter needs to do for you is test for continuity. Switch meter to ohms, touch leads together, see needle swing. That means you have a completed circuit. Unplug saw, touch one lead to black , touch other lead to all other wire one by one. Should be open circuit. Pull switch and repeat, should have closed ciircuit on one wire. Touch one lead to white and repeat. Repeat sequence while clicking switch to hunt for brake lead.

            KK

          7. kweitguy | Mar 11, 2015 12:00am | #16

            Ohm meter test

            Hey c.a.,

            Well I followed your instructions and these are the results.

            Switch Off:

            B : --, --, --, --

            W: Re, --, --, --

            Switch On:

            B: Or, Ye, --. --

            W: Re, --, --, --

            So, B is Black and W is White. Re = Red; Or = Orange; Ye = Yellow. Where I list a color I got a reading on the meter.

            Sorry for being such a dunce, but this stuff has always escaped me. Does this say anything to you?

            Thanks for your help.

          8. User avater
            coonass | Mar 11, 2015 02:28pm | #17

            ?

            Put the leads on black and red and watch the meter as you click the switch. I am guessing it will jump for a second. That should be the brake circuit but with out a wiring diagram it really is a guess.

            KK

          9. kweitguy | Mar 11, 2015 07:49pm | #18

            No Wiring Diagram Blues

            Hey C.A.,

            Yeah, guess we're up a creek troubleshooting this long distance and without a wiring diagram. Checking Black and Red and pulling the "On" switch produces nothing on the meter. Black to Orange or Yellow does produce a jump. I found this schematic that may show you something, but again, it's all Greek to me.

            http://www.makita.nl/images/files/onderdelen/nl/LS1013L-TE.pdf

            No problem if we're up a creek.

            kweitguy

          10. User avater
            coonass | Mar 11, 2015 09:24pm | #19

            Creek

            Wiring diagram is not the same.

            I have no paddle.

            Kapex is a nice saw! :)

            KK

  3. kweitguy | May 31, 2015 03:31pm | #20

    No luck

    I appreciate all you guys chipping in on my problem. Seems I have run out of possible solutions and am left with wondering what actually operates the blade brake system on this saw.

    I have disassembled the saw 'head' in it's entirety, from the blade guard through the motor, I've replaced the switch and brushes and taken close note of what else could be involved with the brake - the resiult is - nothing I could see/find.

    I've read elsewhere (maybe here too) that running the saw for a few minutes will 'condition' the brushes to begin the braking function. While I have done this once already, it's all that's left to try again.

    Thanks again you guys.

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