Replies

1. 
   TomT226 | Aug 28, 2003 01:58pm | #1

   Pretty big block. I guess it stays in one place all the time?

   IMHO end grain blocks should be smaller than that. It gets down to a flattening issue after you glue it up.

   If you gotta build it, then I'd suggest ripping 8/4 maple into random widths, chop your lengths, and glue the off cuts together. Make as many rows as you need. After they cure, glue the rows together staggering the joints as much as possible. Gotta have a lot of clamps.

   Then you gotta flatten it. If you can find a cab shop with a big planer, use them. You might want to see if they can dimension it too.

   There are places that make these. Try http://www.boos.com.

2. 
   SamT | Aug 28, 2003 04:26pm | #2

   Put a border around it to help prevent splitting.

   SamT

   Be Brave, Be bold.
   Do Right, Do Good.
   Don't lie, cheat, or steal.
   Especially from yourself.

1. 
   fredsmart48 | Aug 28, 2003 07:27pm | #3

   wood expand and contracts across grain so if you have standing on end it will expand both length and width of the bucher block.  you will not contain it with any boarder and keep it flat it will either destroy the boarder if you do manage to build a strong enough boarder the block will warp.   The end grain will adsorbed more moisture the the face grain and it is easer to cut.

   Not a good design.

1. 
   SamT | Aug 28, 2003 07:37pm | #4

   Mea culpa.

   SamT

   Be Brave, Be bold. Do Right, Do Good.Don't lie, cheat, or steal.Especially from yourself.

3. 
   ken1putt | Aug 29, 2003 12:23am | #5

   I betcha you'd have trouble building it for the coupla hundred this one costs delivered.

   http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?itemnumber=G9914

   I've had a lust for some of this in my kitchen ever since I first saw it.

   K

   -

   -

   "Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game because they almost always turn out to be -- or to be indistinguishable from -- self righteous sixteen-year-olds posessing infinite amounts of free time." - Neil Stephenson, Cryptonomicon

4. 
   WorkshopJon | Aug 29, 2003 01:00am | #6

   44,

   I paid $215.00 for a 96" X 30" X 2.25" from C&H Dist. 'bout 3 years ago. Was sold as a work bench top. One light pass through the (48") thickness planer at work and some oil and it looked like a piece of furniture. You can't by the lumber to make one that cheap. It weighs so much, I didn't even have to fasten it to the cabs.

   BTW. that was a friend price, but still.....To fab. that up yourself would cost 1K X $ in time and mtrls. not to mention sanding all the end grain. 

   Jon

5. 
   DougU | Aug 29, 2003 04:09am | #7

   44

   If I read you right you are going to make this top with end grain up.

   If so I wouldnt run it through a thickness planer, I would find a cabinet shop with a wide belt sander, that will work better. Good shops will have wide belt sanders that will acomadate a 36 to 42" wide piece.

   If I'm mistaken on the end grain up go with the thickness planer.

   Doug

6. 
   kaufman | Aug 29, 2003 06:27am | #8

   John Boos Company in Effingham, IL will make a butcher block to your specs. I think they have been in business for about 120 years so they must make them right. They also sell a food safe oil to treat their blocks. They even have some slabs in the white house kitchen.

   http://www.johnboos.com

1. 
   toast953 | Aug 29, 2003 07:49am | #9

   Tom, it's a stand alone island. Ken, thanks. Workshopjon,   is your B Block end grain or ??, and I thank You. Doug, I'am not quite certain which way the grain is going to run, I think I'll check with the ol John Boos Co., which by the way I owe thanks to Kaufman. Thank you Kaufman, and all the other Breaktimers who continue to make these Boards great. Jim J

1. 
   WorkshopJon | Aug 29, 2003 09:11pm | #12

   "Workshopjon,   is your B Block end grain or ??, "

   44,

   No it is not. Here are some pics as well as the C & H catalog link to the page. It lists for $485. Their cost is less than $200. Just pointing out how cheaply you can buy vs. make yourself.

   Jon

   http://www.chdist.com/ecommerce/eComm?template=iCatalog/t190&cust_no=&user_id=?&ship_no=?

   
1. 
   Qtrmeg | Aug 30, 2003 03:26am | #13

   Those are "pinch me details", Jon, thanks for the pics.

   I don't see an end grain top 1" thick, am I wrong here? Well, ya, I guess people make counters out of scrap flooring, so anything Can be done. I wouldn't have made a top out of 4" wide planks either, but that one lasted 30 years.

   Hmm, I'm sure this will all work out just fine.

1. 
   toast953 | Aug 30, 2003 07:49am | #14

   I thank you all, for your imput, I now feel somewhat ( a little comfortable), talking butcher blocks. I talked to Jon boos Co., down Phoenix way, 30" x 60" Mable B.B. = $219.00 plus tax plus $30.00 shipping. Salesman/spokesman told me, "it's 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" x 60" strips, flat grain up, no edge band.  Hmm, I'll  try and find out what that compares to one made up of end grain. Be safe out there, Jim J

2. 
   Dinosaur | Aug 30, 2003 09:27am | #15

   I made a 72"x26" side-grain slab about 15 years ago for myself; at that time my materials cost was 40$ for the wood and threaded rods. I glued it up with std. carpenter's yellow glue and ran four 5/16-inch threaded rods through it to clamp it down. Didn't have access to a 30" planer so I sanded it flat with a 3" belt sander cross grain then with grain, grit from 50 to 120. Total time was probably about 5 hours work.

   It is the main work counter in the kitchen and gets used a LOT every day. I've refinished it once in that time. I used olive oil to re-oil it after re-sanding. It gets scraped regularly with a pastry-scraper and scrubbed with boiling water and a steel scouring pad whenever I've been doing a lot of meat cutting. I usually hit it with a fresh coat of olive oil after the boiling water treatment.

   The end-grain blocks I've used in professional kitchens and butcher shops are usually pretty deep sections: like a foot or more thick top to bottom. You damn near need a fork lift to move 'em, too. These are used for serious cleaver-type cutting, not for where somebody's gonna chop a few onions with a chef's knife from time to time. Unless you're planning to cut your own beef quarters by hand on a regular basis, I think it's overkill for a home kitchen, no matter how well equipped it might be.Dinosaur

   'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?

3. 
   WorkshopJon | Aug 30, 2003 01:50pm | #16

   "I used olive oil to re-oil it after re-sanding."

   Dino,

   FWIW, all vegetable based oils go rancid over time. That's why they are not recommended for use as finishes. I guess if you keep washing it off before it does, and reapply, you're OK. But better IMO to use something that won't in the first place like mineral oil.

   Jon

4. 
   UncleDunc | Aug 30, 2003 02:29pm | #17

   Does that include linseed and tung oil?

5. 
   WorkshopJon | Aug 31, 2003 11:28am | #21

   "Does that include linseed and tung oil?"

   Uncle Dunc,

   Sorry, should have said "edible" [vegetable] oils. If you put toxic preservatives in them, then potentially they will not.

   Jon

6. 
   andybuildz | Aug 31, 2003 05:51pm | #25

   Jon

         So wheres yer brother and his camera....lol.

   I think when the additions are done here I'll be using limestone and wood counters so expect an Email from me.....Been thinking about using cherry or oak.

   Be well bro,

               Namaste'

                        andy 

    

   A soul might say," I dropped by to play at being an ego.....and lo and behold I identified with my ego and forgot I was a soul!"

   http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

7. 
   WorkshopJon | Aug 31, 2003 06:35pm | #26

   "So wheres yer brother and his camera....lol."

   Andy,

   He's actually racing that BMW Z4 (the one we showed up at your place in) up in Limerock CT today.

   If you are planing on building your own cabs, I had good luck with The Cabinet Factory (now Waldzcraft) out of LaCrosse, WI. for a supplier for custom doors and mouldings. Also, I used Wood Workers Hardware for..........hardware and lighting (halo). Of course, you need to get that great Powermatic pulled out and set up to make um.

   Jon

8. 
   andybuildz | Aug 31, 2003 06:48pm | #27

   Jon

        I may build the cabs the way they did it back then......shelves clear across the wall rather than separate cabs and as far as the doors, stiles and rails go....well when we get closer to that point as hard as that is to imagine I'll come up with some design that'll be inovative and in tune with this ol' house.....

   Thing I was speaking about to you was the counter tops actually.....thinkin' black limestone and cherry butcher block....well maybe I shouldn't acal it butcher block....jus' cherry.

   Be a popped cherry.......oops, sorry ; )

                                                           andy 

    

   A soul might say," I dropped by to play at being an ego.....and lo and behold I identified with my ego and forgot I was a soul!"

   http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

9. 
   WorkshopJon | Sep 02, 2003 05:11am | #31

   "Be a popped cherry.......oops, sorry"

   Andy, Andy, Andy,....

   Let's not even go there.

   After all, we're married now and have the Church's blessing.

   But, a cherry butcher block counter top. That sounds way cool and probably period correct.

   Jon

10. 
    donpapenburg | Sep 02, 2003 06:24am | #33

    We have a Boos blocks maple butcher block . 24x24x 12 in. thick It is end grain with two little sliding dovetails on each side of the individual blocks that make up the whole thing.  If you did it that way it would take more than a few hours to build.

11. 
    Dinosaur | Aug 31, 2003 05:42am | #18

    I know about oils going rancid; but you're right--it gets regularly washed/worn off/out and when the board looks too dry (not often as almost all food products have some kind of fatty content in them), I'll hit it with a light smear of fresh oil. If it gets too greasy, I scrape, scub and boil, then start over.

    I don't want mineral oils or synthetics of any sort on that board because my food is in direct contact with it. I spend what is today considered an inordinate amount of time preparing home-cooked foods from fresh ingredients so that I can avoid having polymolydiethylwhatsis in my daily diet; it seems to me I would be defeating my own purpose if I smeared my food prep surface with chemical/hydrocarbon products.Dinosaur

    'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?

12. 
    DougU | Aug 31, 2003 05:49am | #19

    Dino

    The mineral spirits is only toxic in the liquid state, once in the wood and dry it isnt a threat.

    At least that is what I was told when i put some butcher block counter tops in a house.

    Doug

13. 
    Dinosaur | Aug 31, 2003 06:33am | #20

    I don't want to sound like I'm making a smart-aleck comeback, but isn't that basically what the PT lumber manufacturers have been yodeling at us about the copper-arsenic-based poison they've flooded the world with for the past X years...?

    On certain types of questions--this mineral oil is a good example--if I don't personally know the science involved in an issue well enough to make my own informed decision, I will choose to err on the side of caution. My life experience has taught me that putting blind trust in a manufacturer's claims about his product is equivalent to believing the election promises of politicians.

    BTW, I've got this great bridge I picked up cheap in Brooklyn the other day. I bought it for a customer, but they changed their mind and so I can let you have it for only a couple of thousand. Cash only, please, and in small bills....Dinosaur

    'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?

14. 
    TomT226 | Aug 31, 2003 02:52pm | #22

    Mineral oil is safe for human consumption. It's used as a laxative....

15. 
    Dinosaur | Aug 31, 2003 05:00pm | #23

    So, if I were to use it on my food preparation counter, I'd have a laxative in every meal I ate?

    I've often been told I'm full of ****, but I think that solution's a bit extreme, all the same....Dinosaur

    'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?

16. 
    jocobe | Aug 31, 2003 05:38pm | #24

    I've been in the millwork business for over 25 years and there ain't no way you can make them cheaper then buying them already glued up......no way.  We get them from Bally Block Co. http://www.mapleblock.com/ .  We sold customized tops made from Bally's slabs to Home Depot and other mass merchandisers.  We always used mineral oil to finish cut ends or other unfinished areas.

    End grain looks great on a butcher block.  I talked to a fellow woodworker one time and he told me this story.  He was in a woodworking class in the early stages of his career.  A fellow woodworker had glued up this beautiful end grain butcher block top.  They were kneeling down, in front of the planer, as they fed the slab through.  The planer disentigrated the slab and threw all the blocks back at the person's face and knocked out most of his teeth.  Live and learn....but an abrasive wide belt sander would be a wiser choice.

    jocobe

17. 
    TomT226 | Sep 01, 2003 03:13pm | #28

    Ha, pretty good. I've been told the same thing too.

    No, but seriously, I've been using mineral oil on my boards for years and never had any complaints. John Boos Inc. encloses a instructon sheet with all their boards specifing the use of mineral oil for the treatment of their boards.

18. 
    Clay | Sep 01, 2003 11:54pm | #29

    I have personal experience with several types of oils and I can assure you that olive oil will NOT become rancid when used to treat a butcher block top.  In fact I have never heard of rancid olive oil.  I prefer walnut oil myself which will dry. though it is slow drying.  Walnut oil will not turn rancid either, I have used it on many food contact wooden items including butcher blocks.  Tung oil and Linseed oil are not the best choices for butcher blocks because they are not food-safe to begin with and then they often have additives that are even less safe.  They will not turn rancid either.  Mineral oil is more similar to olive oil in that it doesn't dry.  It doesn't turn rancid either but I think it offers less water resistance than olive oil.  Walnut oil offers a more water resistant surface than the olive oil or the mineral oil.  These three are all good choices for butcher blocks, spoons, salad bowls, etcetera.  I think the Walnut oil is the best choice and I have used it for most of my projects.

19. 
    Dinosaur | Sep 02, 2003 12:11am | #30

    Thanks for the vote of support.

    OLIVES OF THE WORLD, UNITE!!! You have nothing to lose but yer pits....

    Dinosaur

    'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?

20. 
    Megunticook | Sep 02, 2003 06:23am | #32

    For what it's worth--just installed a 60 x 48" Boos maple block, cost about $500. Looks gorgeous.

    For finishing, Boos has their own oil they sell (not sure what's in it exactly) but I've been using a food-grade linseed oil (a Danish Oil made by a cabinet maker who manufactures "Tried & True" brand finishes, totally non-toxic and much-loved by furniture/cabinet makers).

    Have also tried a mineral oil/lemon oil mix with good results. Whatever you use, just make sure you know exactly what's in it and that it's something completely safe to ingest.

21. 
    toast953 | Sep 02, 2003 07:18am | #34

    I'am not particularly fond of guessing, but here goes, on your 60 x48 BB, your wood is 1 1/2" x 1 1/2", with the flat side up. Or is it with the edge grain up- 2nd guess/choice. Did you get an edge band all the way around??, or does it just go with the end grain showing??  Be Safe  out there Jim J

22. 
    Megunticook | Sep 02, 2003 07:35am | #35

    1-1/2" square, vertical grain up (most, but not all strips appear to be quartersawn), no edge band.

7. 
   Clay | Aug 29, 2003 09:24am | #10

   The end grain up in rock maple is considered the cadillac of cutting boards.   I reccommend walnut oil for all cutting board finishes.  You will find that it is much more durable than the mineral oils commonly sold for the purpose.  it is at least as safe as anything else, being totally edible (and tasty too).

8. 
   wflather | Aug 29, 2003 05:04pm | #11

   Here's a few more links for end grain butcher block:

   http://catskillcraftsmen.com/butcher_block/

   http://www.brookswood.com/Butcherblocks.htm

   http://www.mapleblock.com/foodequip.html

   http://www.glumber.com/CuttingBoards.htm

   http://www.timelesstimber.com/contractor/ContentPlus.asp?cmd=CONTENT&articleID=207

   http://whatscookingamerica.net/CuttingBoards/BenchMenchMain.htm

   But John Boos comes up most often: http://www.johnboos.com/

9. 
   poorsh | Sep 03, 2003 02:26am | #36

   Hi 44

   Grew up in Montreal where the local steak houses served them on plank boards. Cut the steak score the surface. Government inspectors said to replace them with plastic!. Guess what? Dishwashers couldn't penetrate microscopic cuts and the bacteria count was worse. It seems the wood had a natural biocide. Use the end grain for the block.

   I have used Tung oil for salad bowls, wooden chopsticks from http://www.leevalley.com non toxic

   Cheers

   Mac

1. 
   toast953 | Sep 03, 2003 09:31am | #37

   Monsiure Ed and Mac, thanks for your replys, Jim J