I will post a few more photos as the job progresses. This top will eventually be 15 feet long by 4-1/2 feet wide. Made with full length maple. There is supposed to be a sink installed in it. Any comment on undermount vs. traditional set-in….
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Yes.
What kind of glue are you using, for my information.
For sinks, whether under or over, I always seal the cut edges with epoxy so water absorption does not create separations and other damage.
For undermounts, I Dado the bottom to leave about 3/4" or so deep in the top and round over the edge. It looks better that way
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I am using Titebond III.I will suggest the thinner edge to my client as the 2" top does lower the bottom of the sink an equal amount.
That top is going to crush some particle board cabinets!
I doubt that as there is 15 vertical support directly to the base frame. The top should weigh about 1000-lbs or less than 100-lbs per support.
I recall handling my last eleven footer that was delivered. One arm was longer than the other for a couple of days! Two of us doing it and it felt like about 150# or so on each. That would make yours maybe 500#?
I'm just guessing. I'm sure the Woodweb site has some tables to go by.Have you used the TB III much? I just got my first jug of it last month for small things. Still getting forst impressions. I am conservative about tryiong a new product on such an expnsive project. I can understand DIY tho. the longest I can get delivered with full length stock is 12'. Only once did I need longer and that was more like 22' straight run. We seamed itLet me see if I can find photos of the sink details...
well spank my bottom and call me silly, I have several; of th ewhole process , but can't find any of the finished poroduct, but i know I have them in here someplace...
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I have been using TBIII for about one year alternating it with TBII. So far so good. I am using it on this job because of the slightly longer open time. Some of the joints are 16 feet long and I need some time to go the full length and adjust for slip as I go. It take time. I was surprised when my supplier could find the full length wood. I have needed it before for stair stringers and he could not find full length.
You applying with rollers or a spreader?Where you at? easier to find long maple in NH
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I apply the glue to both surfaces with a regular glue bottle then roll it even with a 3" sponge roller. No fuzzy stuff comes off of these rollers. I use the same when veneering. I usually use the 3" but depending on the size of the veneer sheet I may use a full width 10" roller. I live north of Montreal, Quebec
i've almost finished bulding most of my cabinets and the island will have a butcher block top as well. How tough is this to build?
Also can you recommend some sources for reasonably priced finished butcher block. Size is something like 36" x 72" (memory?).
My top is now approaching 20" which is the width of my planer. I will stop laminating to this piece and start another. Concidering that these pieces will eventually have to be glued together, I use this first piece as the backing for the glue up of the first three strips. This will ensure that they are either the same stright line or slightly curved line. When I glue them together I just have to align the alignment marks. The front edge has a 20-foot radius there fore I can use a few short pieces where the center will be cut away. As far as reasonable premanufactured products, there is a company called Boos Brothers who produces great maple tops. I buy these rather than build my own because of thire relative low cost and great quality. I believe they are available up to ten feet.
Thanks. Do you know if Boos Brothers will do a sink cutout for me or do i need to do that myself?
I would imagine that you must do that yourself.
http://www.butcherblock.us/index.html
If you cut it yourself, you will void the warrantee.
Even though they include instructions how to do cut outs with the top.
Had a blowup with boos bros and their distributor here last year over a delam issue.
In the end they were basically reasonable, but, it took a tiff to get there.Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
I built an island for one of those TV chefs on PBS. The island was 5' X 14', top was one piece, 3" thick and must have literally weighed a ton!
I made damn sure that when that thing came in I was very busy in another room and would not be available to help carry it in. I think they had 8 or 10 guys, not real sure because I wasnt within eye or ear shot of any of them!
Doug
If my math is correct and it usually sucks this late at night (10:30 PM) your 5' x 14' x 3" countertop weighed about 700 lbs ( ~1/3 Ton).
5' x 14' x 1/4' = 17.5 ft^3
Hard Maple has a density of 0.63 * water (i.e. it floats) so 0.63 * 62.4 lbs/ft^3 = 39.3 lbs/ft^3
17.5 ft^3 * 39.3 lbs/ft^3 = 687.75 lbs = ~ 700 lbs or ~ 1/3 Tons
HTH JH
jvh
I wouldnt dispute your math! I cant imagine the top weighing anything less!
It was the biggest single piece top that I have ever seen, and I'm sure one of the most expensive tops.
I do know that I didnt help carry it in the house, and my back is happy for that.
Doug
The countertop is cut out and ready for sanding and setting in the sink. The curved cuts were done with a skillsaw. I also plan to inset a dish drain on the right side. All the sink area will be coated with many coats of urethane.
Why a circ saw? No jigsaw in town? I'll bet that blade is enjoying retirement in the sunny Carribean now...LOLGreat looking grain and shape!
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The cut is done in several shallow passes. The blade eventually follows its own kerf and leaves an exteremely smooth surface. The blade is in fine shape. No need to retire it. The ends were done with the router and template.
OK, new trick to mark down for long radius...But still, why not a jigsaw and router?
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I have had jigsaws wander when cutting thick hardwood, router and template also works but then I have all that time and materials in making the radius jig. The outside radius is different from the inside radius therefore two jigs. A belt sander with a curved base will clean this up quickly and no one would be able to tell the difference between this c-top and one done with the router.....in my humble opinion..
Good points to learn from.
cut with the jigsaw, slowly and after checking blade alignment and 1/8" or so from the line, then use a router and template to final it. twin radii true, but same piece of stock. one side fits inner, then 4-5" away the other side fits outer. I would not even need a full eight foot template necessarily, but could move and reset a shorter one.anyways, thanks for the info and tips. Might be the way I do the next one, not that things like this come along every week. Be proud.
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Actually these radii are 20' 6"' and 16'3". I have a swept front edge to create more overhang in the center front.
The sink manufacturer supplied an MDF template but it was a male template. This is risky when it is the part outside of the template that you want. The slightest movement away from the template and there is a mark in the side of the wood. I made a female template from their male template and router cut the hole. The stick in the photo was clamped there to support the piece would and not let it fall to the bottom of the cabinet. The drain area was routed into the top with approximately 5/16" slope. I then flipped the top (with help) and recessed the sink 7/16".
Edited 10/24/2006 8:49 pm ET by Barrie2777
To anyone in the market for butcher block. Forget about Boos, prices are out of touch with reality; if you didn't get it for free, you shouldn't have it. I needed a piece for an island 20" x 50" with round over edge and gravy trough. Order it from a place called American Wood Products http://www.awpbutcherblock.com/ . It was shipped UPS and was profesionally packed and arrived without a scratch. They ship bigger jobs via truck frieght. Call them for a quote. I was very happy with the price and the service.
I notice that a lot of their tops are pieced ends instead of full lengths in the photos. That what you got? The prices are good, and I bookmarked it for further investigation
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By pieced ends do you mean end grain butcher block? I got what I call regular butcher clock, long strips about an inch wide laminated together. I believe the end grain block is more expensive. As I said, I thought their service and product were very good. I was a bit apprehensive about having it shipped UPS, but they assured me it would be packed well and it was; double wrapped in cardboard, special corner blocking, etc. Try them for a small island type of job and see how they do for you, then consider bigger jobs. My small order was turned out very quickly, less than a week if I remember correctly. As with most things you measure you should triple check to avoid any mix ups. You know what a mix up is---something you end up eating.
Not end grain. What I mean is this - on a ten or twelve foot long countertop, some outfits use maple pieces 2,3, 4 foot long, while others make them up as shown in this thread with pieces the full length of the top. Enf grain is more expensive and is a true butcher block top. the end grain will withstand the constant blows of a chopping knife over a hundred years without letting chips of wood end up in the ckicken meat.
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On my island top all my pieces are full length, but my piece is not that big. If you called them I sure you could discuss any detail with them. With the ready availability of digital photos, you could have them send you a picture before they cut.
What router that? I'm a fan of D-handles
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No it won't crush 'em.
Granite counters are used over PB cab carcases all the time, and I'll bet the stone outweighs the wood.
How about this. Picture two 250 pound electricians, standing atop the granite counter that caps an island of PB cabs. They are helping each other install the light track on the ceiling. No problemo for the PB.
What has been your experience with particleboard cabs? Except for some instances where the cab outer sides are exposed, all our carcases are done with PB.
Spend some time over at Woodweb's forums for professional cabinetmaking and architectural woodworking, and observe what the pros are doing.
I am just not a fan of it.
There is a reason plywood carcases are more expensive, because they are better. :)
Are you serious regarding the two electricians on top granite top? We had a marble top installed and one light weight cleaning gal, for final before HO settles in, cracked it just above the sink inlay. Not a good day and will never allow that again on any counter top. We didn't lay the top but had it done by pros and they use shims and I guess it wasn't supported completely evenly and, well, that's the story.
If you must have a sink in a wooden counter, I would never use an undermount. That will expose endgrain to water and will lead to mold & rot very quickly. Even with a drop-in, the owner will have problems sooner or later. I love wood counters -- I have a cherry counter in my own house. I would just never use them around the sink or stove. YMMV.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA