I’m sure this has been covered before, so accept my apologies before hand, but please don’t let it prevent you from replying.
I have a client (female, divorced, wants to give me lots of work, and is amiable, too) that has asked me to do four jobs, two of which she states that she would supply the principal materials (porch railing system – $1,200 retail, and lattice to cover her crawl space – $400.)
Normally I provide all materials, with exceptions noted in the contract. How do some of you handle the instances where a customer supplied materials?
I haven’t run into this often, and usually don’t mind the infrequent shower faucet, but the railing system would have been some decent markup. I don’t want to alienate the woman; there’s gold in that house, and I wouldn’t mind being the miner to claim it.
Thanks.
Replies
Nick,
I mark up my labor, in such circumstances. But I also carry most of my O&P in my standard rate. If you count on the material markup, more than I do. The labor markup could be substantial, and raise issues with the owner. Most customer don't understand how our profit is made, and therefore don't realize what we lose, by not supplying the materials. Often the fact that "Owner supplied materials are not warrantied by the Contractor", will cause them to give up on supplying the materials. What ever you decide to do, make sure you make what you need. P.S. Only you can decide what that is. Good luck!
Brudoggie
if the customer want to supply materials then they have to know what to get if not then they should pay you to tell them what they need and they better have their own truck to haul it or they need to pay you to go get it if they supply cheap crap it is their own fault
i always have to laugh at the guys you will see down at the hardware store or lumber yard with their customer paying for all the materials that they just picked out then they go out and load it into their truck and drive it back to the job and not get paid for their trouble
a while back i was on a small job re wiring a section of an old house that had been stripped down to the studs inside customer wanted to supply all the wire and boxes and such my reply was no "I don't have time for that kind of stuff and she should probably call someone else I would recommend one of the unlicensed hack around town" and was about to hang up. no no she says you come well recommended by the local ace hardware and the commercial supply house both we want you to do the work ok I give her a bid and finally at the site doing the work. I have pulled out all the old cloth covered wire and am pulling in new when suddenly a drywall crew shows upi happen to know them we start talking he planned to hang the rock and get a first coat of mud on today but today is my day to do the electric and who is going to hang the insulation then the boss look out in the garage and there is no drywall out there the home owner was supposed to go to HD and get the material he even told her how many sheets and boxes of mud so now he is standing here with two employees on the clock and no work and no material about that time the owner shows up with rolls of insulation that are torn all to heck she got a good deal at HD but didn't have room for the drywall insulation guy was supposed to be here I point out the my contract says I will be here today to do the electrical. and insulation is not getting hung while I am here. how much longer do you need about three hours I will be done by two so the drywall guy agrees to do the insulation after I leave then hang all the rock. he will send a guy tomorrow to tape it.so the customer leaves to get the drywall she is driving a suburban. I go back to work and the drywall guys are just kind of hung up so the guy has his guys help me I show em how to pull wire and place boxes just to get done a little faster so they can get to hanging the insulation maybe not have to work overtime tonight
the home owner has totally put these guys out and hasn't even noticed
insulation guy shows up we know him too he says "what you guys are going to do my job that's what I came here for"looks over at the trashed rolls of insulation an says forget it the stuffs going to be all over you im just going home early.and leaves.finally I am done and packing up to leave the drywall helpers are happy because they got to do some electrical work the boss was getting antsy because he has been here an hour and fortyfive minutes and not making any money about that time the owner shows up with the rock twenty sheets neatly cut into 4x4 pieces so they would fit in the suberban.the guys at the yard had charged her 50 cent a sheet to cut them down and she was upset about that we shoulnt have told her to go there. as I am leaving I hear the dry waller trying to explain why the charge to tape and mud the walls was going to cost twice as much
village........ hah,hah, hah,.... & hah... puleeeeze.. yur killin meMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
That's a classic. I know that lady and all her sisters.Who Dares Wins.
damn that was funny, but you can't leave us haning how did it end with the drywall guys?
I mean did she pay the double taping, have fit and go postal, what?
If our DW guys showed up to a bunch of 4x4 sheets they would just leave.Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals built the Titanic.
I suppose this is somewhat of a regional thing but I run into this on occasion. It is due in large to customers being able to go to the big box and pick out what they want, and that is what they want, no substitute. Now they know the product and price so when you mention mark up they want to order it and have it delivered.
I just finished a kitchen and bath remodel like this. I supplied labor and a few specialty materials but they supplied cabinets, subs, fixtures etc. I simply calculated my labor rate higher to make up for the loss of markup revenue and some for added delays. I also included a section in my contract that stated if there are any problems with materials you supplied, then it is your problem. Not mine.
I have been debating the value of this approach though. Even though it was a good profitable job it still was aggravating as hell. They bought the tub and surround from Lowes who screwed the tub order up 3 time and the surround up twice. They kitchen cabinets were not layed out properly and the doors hit. We were able to make it work but man, how agravating!
Its not that these folks were stupid or didn't care. They just wanted to stretch a limited budget and get more for their money. I can't help but be simpathetic to that cause. But they simply don't know enough to watch over some kid at Lowes that is ordering their material and so when the product arrives its wrong. I finally bailed them out on the tub/surround deal but when they asked for help on another issue I declined. Anyway, tough issue. I don't know but suppose if my busieness level continues I may decline owner supplied jobs in the future. DanT
she could not understand why the taping should be more seemed to think it would be easy to hang the rock because it was smaller and lighter the drywaller left without doing anything. insulation guy would not come back. two weeks later i come back as schedualed to finish the electric the insulation was out in the yard and had been rained on so they spead it out to dry the sheetrock was in the garage leaned up against the wall bowed pretty good ready for the trash heap.so i just start putting in my outlets and switches i hung two light fixtures on the open ceiling.call the owner and tell her i am done and need a check for 750 so she comes down to the job to pay .tells me that she tried to return the drywall and was upset the the lumberyard would not return cut material was very upset at the drywaller for walking away and could not understand why the insulation guy would not come back and blamed him for the insulation getting wet. her husband is going to put up the drywall and insulation.do i now anyone that would do the taping. no.as she is handing me my check she starts ranting that it is just getting impossible to find good craftmen to work i just bite my tounge and smile. a good ending to this story would be if the buildin inspecter was to walk up and ask to see the permit
That has got to be the funniest DIY-HO/GC story I've ever heard. LOL. Thanks for lightening up my day. Glad you got your check!
There's an older thread in here that has you pros telling "nightmare" DIY stories that's a hoot as well. Since I'm on the DIY side, don't have any stories to renew the thread...this one would be a good starter though.
Nick,
Used to be I could buy almost everything cheaper than the HO because of contractor discounts. Then the conversation was easy:
HO: 'Do you mark up materials?'
Me: 'Yep. To what they would cost you to buy them.'
I can still do that on plumbing, electrical, paint, roofing (mostly) and a few other things, including (vinyl) deck railing. But commodity items are the box store's low priced loss leaders.
I would let her get the stuff, have it delivered, and then go through the order with her, gently explaining how you select material versus the delivery knucklehead. Have her call them to pick up the damaged lattice, and replace it. (You know there will be some.) Have her arrange for and meet all deliveries, because this is her purchase, not yours.
My guess is that she'll get the idea pretty quickly. If there are multiple projects at this site, you should be okay in the future. As a previous post noted, do not warranty the material which she purchases. You may lose a couple of hundred in the mark-up on the railing and the lattice, but only this one time. Look at it as an investment in customer education.
Good luck!
skipj
I've known guys who just use different labor rates on jobs like that.
One guy I know well uses $28.00 if he supplies the materials, and $32.50 if he doesn't. That way he's at least partially covered when the inevitable problems come up.
In love there is always one who kisses and one who offers the cheek. -- French proverb
Have you heard about the HOs that had the neighborhood drywall guy hang the rock first, he was available at the time, and wondered why the electrician and plumbers has funny looks on their faces when presented with the job?
Can you imagine their faces when she tells them that the rock finishers did such a nice job that we were not to damage the drywall?
Can you picture her face when the nice electrician gave her a price for fishing it in without damaging the drywall?
Have you heard the one about the man who wanted to save money on wiring his new house so he pulled the 40+ year old panel, boxes, devices, fixtures and wiring out of his old place so they could be reused?
Its a funny old world we live in.