Mask tape vs drywall peel & stick tape
jdarylh1
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
Noticed a post recently regarding using 2″ masking tape instead of paper tape for drywall. It got me to thinking that it might really work.
The main difference I see between it and peel & stick drywall tape (I’m NOT talking about the mesh stuff) is the surface finish/texture and the holes, but I’m thinking if you cover it with hot mud instead of regular you’ll avoid any adhesion problems between the mud and the tape.
What do you all think?
Replies
no offense but thats poppycock if you are suggesting put the masking tape down with just its adhesive side to the DW. DW tape is bedded in the mud that is placed on the DW first. The perforated type is so for just that reason so that the mud comes into contact with the DW even though the tape is put on first. It might work but I would be concerned about the M tape eventually delaminating.
In my opinion DW work is so labor and "wait time" intensive why would anyone want to try and save a a few pennies by not using a method that is known to work.
If you don't want to try and mud in traditional paper then use the self stick mesh or self stick paper with the holes in it.
I'm one of the odd ones who actually enjoys doing drywall. So mud & regular tape isn't a problem. But I also enjoy going fast, so I'll use anything that speeds it up as long as the job isn't screwed up. That's why I was curious about whether anyone knew if masking tape has been used successfully...long term.
don't know but wouldn't take the risk for the aforementioned reasons
I use a tape with glue on it..just dip it in water and sticks so well after 15 minutes that when you pull it off the drywall, the facepaper of the drywall comes off. This is faster and far superior to anything out there. It looks just like regular tape. Go to ww.duratape.com and look up "Wet & Stick" tape.
Regular joint compound and thus taping with it is problamatic as it's affected by humidity, low temps, etc. Sealing two boards together with joint compound is asking for trouble in the long run. I suppose those who swear by joint compounding the tape also use it when they mail packages ;-)
All you want to do is to secure the two boards well and and adhesive tape does it the best..just don't ever use mesh tape if you are not using a setting compound with it.
With this tape I'll beat anyone with a banjo or a bazooka!
Zano, have you used peel & stick? If you have, what did you think?You know, unless Duratape has already made one, they're really missing a sales opportunity if they don't make a belt hanger for the tape with a water reservoir in it to wet the tape as you pull it out. Like a smaller version of the taping machines used in mailrooms everywhere.What's your method for using the tape? Tear off a bunch of lengths in advance and keep them in a waterbucket?
What I do first is use a setting compound and fill in the gap between the seams, and then us a bucket and have the tape on a tape holder and just pull it out., dip it into the bucket and apply only with my hand. On long seam over 8 foot, I start on each end and have one overlap the other tape by an inch or so.
On angles, if the corners used nails I prefill them with other regular mud or setting compound. The tape has a crease like normal tape does, so I crease it then dip it thru the water in the bucket and apply it with a 4 inch knife on the angle.
It's super fast and in 15 minutes you can 2nd coat. It saves a lot of energy on your hand, saves mud cost and you don't have to constantly switch from the mud pan to your knife.
You can use it even if the mud is not dried yet.
I will never go back to the old way! The great thing about it is that this method is not affected by humidity and the tape sticks so well to the sheetrock that when you pull it off the facepaper comes of the sheetrock.
The manufacturer states that no prefilling is needed on the seams..I disagree with that.
If a space is large on a angle, just double tape that area as the tape dries rock hard.
So first you mud the gaps in the whole room, then tape the whole room, then do first finish coat?Could you eliminate prefilling if the gaps were small?I guess this method completely eliminates any tape bubble problems.I'm going to call the DW suppliers here & see if they carry it. If not I'll probably have Duratape send me some.
OOOOOKAAAAAAY........
Analogy time boys and girls...
the tape in a DW joint is analogous to the rebar in a concrete pour...
Tensile strength....
Filling the voids is like the keyway between a footer and a foundation...
Shear strength...
Setting compound is like high strength crete...
durabond= 5000psi, easysand=3000 psi, allpurpose is a finish...
Masking tape is like using pipe cleaners for rebar!
not filling joints turns a 1/2"+ joint into an 1/8" joint with the rebar only covered on one side!!!
get the picture class??? "I think natural selection must have greatly rewarded the ability to reassure oneself in a crisis with complete bull$hit."
Witty tagline...
You can do it without prefilling the gaps on a seam, but then you have to imbed the tape with your fingernail into the space or the indentation between the two boards. Then however, after you 2nd coat, you will have a little indentation of the mud which you must fill in. You can do it after the 2nd coat or after the final coat. I prefer to prefill it with with a setting compound..it's real fast..just get a 5" knife and pull the knife over the space..it's like pulling nails or screws.
Using a 20 or 45 Easy-Sand, by the time you finish prefilling it's dried and then begin taping which is effortless. After you finishing taping by hand..no knife needed you can begin to 2nd coat. I'm a drywall contractor and finish very well and found that the most energy consuming aspect of drywall finishing is the taping. On the angles, it's super fast and soooo easy.
You won't find it in any drywall supply outlet..if you want about 20 feet of it e-mail me your address and I'll be happy to send it to you..but follow my instructions which I will give you in detail with the sample.
How can I get some of that tape and how about sharing the those instructions with me? I'm about to begin taping my house and am always looking for an easier and better way.
http://www.duratape.com/wet_stick.htmlLooks like they only sell bulk. Maybe someone here knows where a person could buy a few rolls at a time. I looked up wet-n-stick +duratape on google and didn't find any USA online retailers.
Edited 7/19/2005 6:01 am ET by jdarylh1
They don't have any distributors as most drywall yards stock a certain brand of tape. Say if a yard is USG affliated or National Gypsum..if the yard sells tape that is not theirs they lose the account. Duratape sells it by the container loads to Australia and New Zealand and England.
Ever thought of becoming a distributor for the tape yourself? You'd be perfect...lots of experience. Just be an internet distributor, no showroom needed.
Last autumn they came to videotape me doing the taping and were going to use it on their website. I guess they didn't like me prefilling it as they say that you don't have to, so that ended that. But you got a good idea there!
Be sure you let us all know if you decide to distribute the tape!What happens if you don't prefill the gaps? I'm guessing a dent might telegraph through the finish coats over time with house movement? Or is there some other issue?
If you don't prefill, that indentation on the seam will show. You have to fill it then either after the 2nd or final coat. I prefer to prefill it with a setting compound then I know that the seam will never be damaged by humidity. In either case whether you prefill or fill in the dent later, it's still has to be done.
Also I use a setting compound on my butt joints, so while I have the EZ-45 or 90 mixed, I prefill the seams.
I'll let you know when I'll start to sell it. OK, so now you will try a roll and Steve will try a case and I'd like some comments on it whether negative or positive.
I have been following this thread with skepticism, but I think I am going to try this some time.
Being union, there is no way my company would use it. I think just showing a taper (the post about being faster than a bazooka) might get me pushed out a window;^)
But this definatly has big potential for the side jobs.
By the way, as a rocker myself, I have always noticed your posts are on the mark.
I've never worked in a union so I don't understand all their ins & outs, but I'd think any business entity would be interested in being more efficient in order to stay competitive. Not so?For something else that's cool, look at Zano's ButtTaper tool at http://www.butttaper.com.
Of course it is true. A lot of inovation comes from within the unions, or individual members.
I was just joking, because keeping the status quo is also a union trait (probablly true of most large outfits).
Most union work is commercial, with dropped ceilings ect., and the bazooka is the tool of chioce. A taper can put up 4000 feet of tape on most jobs in a day.
However we do do some high end residential, and I will be pointing out this product to my boss.
Ruff,
Appreciate the compliment..but what is wonderful about the internet is that now a novice can get expert advice. When I started out in drywall in 1985 there was noone compare notes with..we all did it the the same way and never questioned if there is a better way.
Yes, bazookas are fast but they are a two man operation. I knew a hand taper who could tape 13 to 16 rolls in one day by himself..I could not beleive how fast he was..he had it down to a science. That's about 4,000 feet you mentioned and commercial is a lot easier.
I took a video today..taped 58 boards and 2nd coated them, pulled 19 corner beads once and finished 11 butt joints, that's 8 1/2 hours and lost about 45 minutes in the video production. My son will make DVD's of it..it's nothing fancy..just a normal sheetrock day..if anyone wants a copy let me know...it's only about the Wet & Stick taping.
I'd like a copy. Be glad to reimburse you for it...let me know if you have a PayPal account.
I might get too tired and sore watching it :^)
so...... what would it take for you to come to asheville, nc and knock out my workshop? it oughta be ready fairly soon.
36 x 23 x 9, 3 skylights, 2 windows, 2 doors, one single overhead door. don't laugh- i flew a buddy in from denver last year to help me (okay, he's a pro- i helped him)build new entrances on the back of my house and the shop- although a small rock job might not be as cost effective...
m
Mitch,
A pig roast..hadn't had one since about 1978 in Wilson, NC. I never had pork that good.I just picked it off the barbecued pig..never forget the taste!
Hi Steve,
I'd like a copy of the DVD. By the way did you get my address which I emailed yesterday?
Got the addy and you'll have it in SD on Monday..although the UPS computer did not recognize the address, but how can it not know East Main ;-) I'll send you the tracing number tomorrow.
--------
To all: My son is framing a strip mall today, 1 1/2 hour drive in 110 heat index..give him the weekend and I'll mail them FOC early next week..ya all privy mail me you addresses.
wow! will that cover all your travel expenses AND labor? i really must insist on picking up the tab for the materials. although i'm sure you'd have to bring some of that fancy tape you're fond of- virtually guaranteed you can't find it around here. i had one heck of a time even getting my hands on cardboard drywall shims- it seems that's a regional thing and this is one region that ain't into it. which may help explain, at least in part, the incredibly pi$$poor job done in my house. i'm not sure which i dread more, the prospect of finding someone who's worth a rat's a$$ around here, or hanging and finishing it myself.
m
Mitch,
Sorry I can't help ya out so do it yourself..remember "if you want soemthing done right, do it .........". I've heard about those cardboard shims although never seen one.
uh oh, here we go again...
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=60569.39
this is a thread i started awhile back to find the aforementioned items. it oughta tell you all you ever wanted to know about them.
as far as me finishing- let alone hanging- that much rock, well, let's just say i had other things i want to get around to before i die and if i take that on there won't be much time left. i ultimately do an excellent job, but i'm slow as a snail with a bum knee...
m
I got to get me about 20 cartons of the stuff tomorrow. How many rolls do you need? I can send you some of mine for $1.75 per roll plus shipping. Let me know.
OK here are the simple instructions; proven by me and another whom I consider the best finisher I had ever seen:
On Seams: When rocking, keep your nails or screws just before the end of the tapered edge on the board. Why? Because when prefiiling with EZ-Sand, it's less work to cover the space (indentation between the two boards. Mix some setting compound, don't use joint compound because it shrinks too much. Let it set, it does not have to be totally dry, and fill in the indentation like you are doing a nail or screw head. When the setting compound sets, put the tape on a tape dispenser, and roll out about 6 feet of it from end of the seam. Dip it into a bucket of water, and press it well into the seam with the palm of your hand. Now do the other end of the wall making sure that the tape is about an inch past the first tape. In 15 minutes you can start to 2nd coat.
On Angles: No need to prefill if you used screws, prefill it with either a setting or joint compound. Crease the tape, dip it into the water bucket, stick it onto the angle and wipe it with a small knife.
_______
Hints: You can tape without prefilling, but make sure that any damaged rock on the seam is fixed, that is cut out and mud put over it. You must indent the tape with your finger into the seam indentation. But then you'll have an indentation of the mud after the 2nd coat, which you must fill in.
It works dry or wet on setting or joint compound.
On large spaces over 1/4" on an angle just double tape it. When it dries it hardens firm.
That's about it!
If any of you fellas try it I would welcome your comments here..positive or negative, just let it fly!
I'll take you up on your offer however I don't know how many rolls I'll need. I couldn't find the length of the rolls of the web site.
The house is about 1300 sq. ft. on each of two levels (8'walls) with a 30' x 34' garage. I have no problem having some left over. Maybe this will help you determine about how many rolls I'll need.
I can pay with Pay Pal or any other method you would prefer.
Thanks,
Steve
Steve,
You got the best name in the world!
You need 23 rolls and that includes one extra. I'm on my way to Duratape right now and will talk to the boys, maybe they can ship it or I can for you. Will get back at ya!
Steve
Peel & Stick I tried a long time ago..I did not like the tear off paper all over the place. The "Wet & Stick" also binds much better than the peel and stick.
I have actually seen a drywall job done with masking tape.
I can tell you it doesn't work and is a really big messy expensive job to correct.
OK. In my mind that settles it. No masking tape...ever.
use duct tape instead...
I tried masking tape just the once, when I was caught w/o d/w tape...it wrinkled, expanded, stretched - everything you wouldn't want it to. Since I wasn't doing corners I didn't put my knife thru it - but no doubt would have done with it being so flimsy.
ciao for niao
To those who know - this may be obvious. To those who don't - I hope I've helped.
piko don't feel bad. I tried the same thing once, with the same disastrous results.
Are we a couple of S#&T HEADS or what?
Have a good one. Walker1
saw a guy use tape once.when the mud went on wet it looked like a good idea,but when it dried it dried the tape too. resulted in cracking,peeling and all round mess. i got to take it off and start over. it actually removed pretty good since it was sticking so poorly.larry
hand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.