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Masonry question

Aaron | Posted in Construction Techniques on February 21, 2007 11:40am

We have a 15-foot section of brick wall on our house that we want to remove in order to add an attached garage/mudroom.  The brick is two stories in this section of wall, so we need to remove the lower 10 feet or so.  If it makes any difference, the brick is limestone of varying thickness between 2 and 6 inches. 

How do you support the brick above the lower section when you remove the brick from below?  Is it self supporting long enough to get a lintel into place, or is there something else that needs to happen.  I am trying to envision what we need to have done before we actually get started.

Thanks in advance,

Aaron

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Replies

  1. Piffin | Feb 22, 2007 01:46am | #1

    I think it would be wise to get a mason to take a look and advise you

     

     

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    1. User avater
      Sphere | Feb 22, 2007 02:27am | #2

      It ought to be a WISE mason as well.

        

      1. Piffin | Feb 22, 2007 04:23am | #3

        Know any? 

         

        Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

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          Sphere | Feb 22, 2007 02:57pm | #5

          Actually, I have met one. A job we did last summer, I picked his brains about laying up stone for a mas. Heater.  Ironically, both Grant and I realized he resembled YOU!.  His name was Ron , IIRC. Looked just like ya. 

          1. dedubya | Feb 22, 2007 04:53pm | #6

            I,m neither wise aka.(IMERC)-- wealthy aka.(txlandlord)--or good looking aka,(Piffen) or have a commanding grasp of the english langage like you do Duane ;)

            but I do know how to punch a big hole in a existing masonry wall :) Lets see masonry will crib itself if given a chance, so on a 15'X 10' wall I would find the linear center of the wall which is 7.5' start taking material out 2' on each side of the center mark in a arch pattern,gradually taking bricks out until I had a 4' "door", then when I get to a heighth of about 7' to 8', I would stop making the opening any wider and start concentrating on working an arch on top, when the heighth of the arch reaches in this case 10' stop work and shore up the center " I use basementjacks" then I start the bottom of one side or the other working my way up the opening at about 2 to 3' from the side until I get to 2 ' from the top ,then start arching the opening again till I reach the required heighth again then place another jack 2' from the first one this time with a oak header beam between  between the jack and masonry, alternating and repeating demoing and jacking on both sides of the opening until you reach the required lenghth of opening. When you are done with that you will have jacks spaced 2to 3' apart if need be you can go back and remove every other jack replaceing the 2to 3'wooden beams with 4 to 6' beams , then as a matter of judgement you can remove and replace as many beams as needed temporeliy for short pereids of time  just reshore the opening when leaving for the night .  this is probley clear as mud.DW

          2. Piffin | Feb 23, 2007 04:34am | #9

            It's clear to me but hard to explain to a DIY. Lotta little things to keep an eye out for doing this sort of thing...like a bunch of wise guys looking over your shoulder. 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          3. dedubya | Feb 23, 2007 04:52pm | #13

            You and mr. Clarke are right, the pic was posted after my reply, there is a company that makes limestone "bricks"2x4x8 that I have worked with before "very expensive'. I assumed that was what he was talking about ,then again looking closly at the pic. he posted, is that real limestone or that material that they installed back in the 30'sthough the 50's that is like the cultured " fake' rock that everyone uses today?If it is the real rock veneer needling plus jackposting is what needs to be done , or again like you say just take the whole side off since he is going to take it done gradually anyway. I would try to salvage as much off that rock as possable ,its still got a lot of life lrft in that stuff.

          4. User avater
            Jeff_Clarke | Feb 23, 2007 05:52pm | #14

            If you look at the heavy shadow lines in the back portion and variable rustication it would be reasonable to conclude that this is real bedded stone, not Permastone.  But sometimes the Permastone is pretty good ;o)

            Jeff

          5. Aaron | Feb 26, 2007 06:16pm | #15

            Thanks for all of the responses.  Yes, that is real limestone.  Lots of houses around here that were built in the 50s and 60s used that since it is quarried in Bloomington (hour away from Indy).  The largest blocks are pretty heavy--they are probably 4 inches deep by 6 inches wide by up to 4 feet long.

            From a construction standpoint, it seems like removing a 15-foot section of limestone to the roof would be the cheapest and easiest solution, especially if "wise masons" are hard to come by.  Removal of the whole section would allow us to tie into the existing framing.

            In trying to look at all of our options, if we just cut out a 4-foot section for a doorway and had a detached structure, would you have the same concerns for supporting the limestone?

            Aaron

      2. Jer | Feb 22, 2007 04:24am | #4

        I think Piffin is wise.

  2. Dudley | Feb 22, 2007 05:04pm | #7

    is this a double masonry wall -- weyth of brick to the exterior and 4" 8*16 cmu on the interior?  What is the brick bond -- is there a header course every 6 courses?

    I have done this but I need to know these answers.  If it has a header course -- and is double walled masonry, take out the portion all below the last header course you are going to save on the exterior and place a lintel, fill in above the lintel and do the reverse on the interior --

    Although thinking about this 15'-10" is a pretty good spread -- most I have done it 10 feet

    1. Aaron | Feb 22, 2007 05:40pm | #8

      I have attached a picture of the wall in question.  It is a 295kb photo.

      The limestone is single course over that asphalt coated sheathing and 2 by 4 walls.

      It sounds like if we are thinking about adding a second story to the addition (in the future) that will be connected on the second floor, it would be cheaper and easier to remove all of the limestone to the roof in the section that will connect to the house, even if we only start with a single story garage addition.

      Edit:  Sorry, meant to post to ALL

      Edited 2/22/2007 11:53 am ET by Aaron

      1. Piffin | Feb 23, 2007 04:40am | #10

        field stone Ashlar bond like that will be a lot harder to support cribbing up at the angle like a brick running bond would be. I'd take that all the way to the roof and reside with wood since you'll be adding more later anyway. 

         

        Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

  3. User avater
    Jeff_Clarke | Feb 23, 2007 03:32pm | #11

    How do you support the brick above the lower section when you remove the brick from below? 

    You get a very good mason who will 'needle' it.

    Is it self supporting long enough to get a lintel into place, or is there something else that needs to happen. 

    See above.   NOT DIY work!

    Jeff

    1. Piffin | Feb 23, 2007 03:53pm | #12

      Needle - would that be drilling through the mortar joints to set pins into the framing for support above the ponts of demolition seams? I wass thinking of that, but didn't know much about whether it would work which os why I suggested contacting a pro, not wanting to give out false info.Like the lady gossiping at the fence with her neighbor said, "Well, I've got to go now. I've already told you more than I know.";) 

       

      Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

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