Hi folks,
My wife and I live in Eastham on Cape Cod. We’ve been DINKs (double income no kids) for the past twenty-five years so now I’m looking forward to a second career. I’d like to start working as a one-person contractor. I have experience – I started working for my builder father when I was fourteen on Saturdays and vacations. I’ve built additions on all of our homes, including a 2000 sq ft one on our home on the Cape. I can do framing to finish, including building cabinets and vanities. I’d like to work on small jobs that are unique/creative (some of you may have seen my “shingle art” in the photo gallery). We don’t need much money to live on since we don’t have too many expenses anymore. We’re all set on “toys” for a while and I don’t have to worry about retirement because of my first career.
So with that as background, here are my questions:
* What are the requirements to get licensed as a builder in Massachusetts? I don’t want to work for someone else, except perhaps as a sub. Do you think my experience is enough to convince the “authorities” to let me take the test?
* Who decides if I have enough experience? I haven’t approached the local building inspector yet to ask his opinion but he’s a very nice guy and supportive of the community.
* What’s the best way to prepare for the test? Is there someplace in the area that offers prep courses?
* What is a reasonable amount to charge for jobs? I plan to emphasize quality but I’m also pretty quick. I’m expecting a mix of small jobs where I’m the GC and others where I’m a sub. Cape Cod is an expensive area and customers exect to pay more than off-Cape but I would just like to make a reasonable wage for the area. I can see charging different rates for “shingle art” vs straight-forward carpentry. [Please PM me if you don’t want to talk rates in the general forum.]
Thanks in advance for whatever advice you can provide!
Cheers! Roger
“When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading.” ~ Henny Youngman
Replies
Hey Roger,
Good for you and your taking on of a new adventure. Getting a license in MA isn't too much of a problem. Look in the back of FHB for the advertisement for the "Nail It" course. Take the course (8-10 wks and about $300), sign up for the test, take the test. Then you pay another $200 or so in fees, fill out the form, send in your test results in and voila, you'll be a GC. Next step is to register with the state as a "home improvement contractor". Don't try to take the test without the class. The test has nothing to do with how much building knowledge you have and has everything to do with being able to find the answers to their obscure questions in that clusterfu#% of a codebook. No matter how smart you are, please don't waste your money on taking the test without taking the course! It has nothing to do with brains!
Here's the hard part, and the part you should probably look into first. Start calling insurance companies and make sure you can get liability insurance in MA as a GC. Most companies aren't issuing new policies and many aren't renewing the existing policies in MA. It is VERY VERY hard to get and will be costly if you do find it. Crunch some numbers and make sure you can stay above water with the insurance rates, taxes, and comp bill.
What to charge for jobs? No way to answer that one. Read "Mark up and Profit" (found in the JLC-Bookstore) and start from there.
Good luck, and let us know how things are working out. I'm heading to West Dennis for a week next Saturday. Gotta love the Cape!
Thanks, dieselpig!
I've been thru the code book a few times and have lots of yellow stickies but I figured the best thing to do was take a course, just as you say. I appreciate the leads!
That's interesting about the liability insurance. I didn't realize that. Is there a benefit to incorporating so that I can separate my personal stuff from the business? I've always wondered why groups of professionals haven't formed their own insurance cooperatives and said "screw you" to the big insurance companies. Seems to me that a cooperative should cost less and would be more responsive, kind of like a credit union vs a big bank.
Have a great vacation in West Dennis. If you're into fishing, there are some big stripers along the backside and tons of blues in the Bay.
Roger
"When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading." ~ Henny Youngman
Those are called mutual insuracne companies.
There have been a number of them setup for doctors. But then you are talking about $50,000 - $100,000 and more per year for a policey.
And the company needs a large amount of assests up front to get started.
"Is there a benefit to incorporating so that I can separate my personal stuff from the business?"
Not a whole lot when you are a sole worker. Now this will vary some by state.
But say Dumas Construction was doing a job and the employee Crash Dumas setup a scafolding with only three legs. The scafolding colaspes and Crash and the scafolding go through the plate glass window and breakers there $500,000 ming vase and the glass shards cut up the face of their daughter who the finalist for Miss Masachuess.
Now who are they going to sue; Dumas Construction, Inc which as $50 in the bank and ownes a circular saw and a hammer with broken hammer or the employee, Crash Dumas, that ownes a 1/2 million dollar house and drive a brand new Escalade as his work vechicle and who is the one that caused the crash.
Point well taken! Thanks!
But what if Crash was distracted by Miss Massachusetts lounging around the pool in that string bikini? ;-)
"When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading." ~ Henny Youngman
Edited 7/11/2004 6:15 pm ET by Roger "Crash" Dumas
One benefit to incorporating is taxes. As a sole proprietor everything left in the company account when the day is done is income and is therefore taxed with both employer and employee taxes. If you incorporate, you will only pay both sets of taxes on the money that goes into your individual account (your pay). So you'd payroll yourself and leave more of the money in the company account which won't fall under such a heavy tax burden. If you can't see the benefits in that, send me an email. I'm not looking to get audited.
I may not have explained all this too well. But, one of your other first connections you'll be making is with your accountant to get your EIN number. He'll do much better at explaining the ins and outs.
Just wanted to mention that the Construction Supervisor's License in Massachusetts requires 3 years of construction experience, they will allow experience that has overlapped(ie two w2'd 40 hour construction jobs at the same time) or non-consecutive construction experience. The home improvement license merely means filling out some paperwork and depending on the size of the jobs you might be able to get by with that for awhile, don't get too worried about the insurance issue as I think you'll probably be able to accquire it. Even on the Cape you will be competing with a lot of clowns with no insurance though, Massachusetts seems to be overrun right now(compared to DC where I was living) with unlicensed, uninsured 'handymen'; mostly laid off workers from other industries.
-Ray
Ray,
Liability insurance for "Carpentry, one and two story dwellings" and "Carpentry, three story dwellings" can be had fairly easily. General Contractor's liability is a very tough thing to get right now in MA.
You right on though with the license and registration information although I know that they don't follow up on the 3 yrs experience part. My roofer worked below the table for a framer for a couple of years and then started his roofing co. He got his license that same year without any experience "on the books".
Roger
Call the MA dept of Public safety they run the contractor licensing
"construction supervisor" is for anything structural and has a test not sure about background experience, that's one for the public safety people when you call
$100. fee for 2 years, need to supply your own photo, they will tell you the photo size go to AAA for a passport picture, they move the camera to get pix the right size can mail it in or go directly to boston for same day license, no cash, need BANK check quincy market is nearby or go for a ballgame
license available 2 ways: 1-3 family homes or unrestricted separate tests on same day in same building, go for the unrestricted, some contractors like to see it vs the 1-3 family consider work for a gc, lots of "punch list" jobs etc. avail, you mention shingle work, always someone looking for a sidewaller gc insurance could be issue like posts said, but even w unrestricted license can insure yourself for 1-2 family homes/limited carpentry
test only given few times a year, so call soon, get scheduled for next time
look in classifieds, announcements section of cape cod times, will see "construction courses" listed costs a few bucks, worth it, they teach you how to go through the code book for the test, show efficient way to earmark sections for quick access.... it was an open book exam, so finding it fast is important.... the test is not about what you know re: construction, it's about properly using the code book so you are in compliance
get home improvement license like someone said for the cosmetic stuff, siding, replacement windows, couple hundred dollar fee requires that you be breathing
http://www.mass.gov/portal/index.jsp?pageID=mg2terminal&L=4&L0=Home&L1=Business&L2=Licensing%2c+Permitting+%26+Regulation&L3=Occupational+%26+business+licenses&sid=massgov2&b=terminalcontent&f=b_license_construction&csid=massgov2_____________________________
bobl Volo, non valeo
bobl,
Thanks for the url! That's just what I needed!"When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading." ~ Henny Youngman
Thanks ed2,
I appreciate all the info. Sounds like an unrestricted makes sense, as you say, and then go for less on the insurance if I can't get GC. I only want to work small jobs anyway.
Roger"When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading." ~ Henny Youngman
When I took the test a while back, the rule was you had to answer 40 out of 50 questions correctly. The test also had us read blueprints and identify parts of said blueprints (which BTW had intentional errors in them). I also recall something about a certain number of CEU (continuing education units) required before renewal of the CS license. Courses must be taken that are related to the construction field.
I agree on the large numbers of unlicensed, uninsured contractors out there. Unfortunately, most people look for whoever charges the cheapest price vs someone who is licenced and insured. I had a client who wanted some major strutural repairs done to a Victorian Carriage house. She thought my quote of $15k was "insane", and had the work done by an unlicensed contractor for $3k. No permit, no contract, building inspector had a bird. Contractor vanished, never to be seen again. The carriage house later collapsed and had to be torn down...
Later...
Renaissance Restorations
Victorian Home Restoration Services
http://www.renaissancerestorations.com
Renaissance,
As they say, you get what you pay for. When I've been doing my recent DIY stuff I've had a bunch of people stop by to ask if I could give them a price on some work. Some of them were just like you mentioned. They had gotten a price from a couple of builders and thought they were too high. They didn't care that I was a pro or not. You could tell they were the type of people who would be a pain in the a$$. Most peopel were really nice though. I definitely want to be licensed before I do any work for anyone. "When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading." ~ Henny Youngman
CCI, http://www.statecertification.com is the outfit I took the CSL course from. All their instructors are former building inspectors, and the instructor who taught my class spend time explaining the ins and outs of certain sections of the MA building code, and provided examples on many occasions.Renaissance RestorationsVictorian Home Restoration Serviceshttp://www.renaissancerestorations.com
I have definitely found in MA there are towns and cities where if you aren't a member of the "clique" of local contractors, you won't stand a chance of getting any work in said town/city.Renaissance RestorationsVictorian Home Restoration Serviceshttp://www.renaissancerestorations.com
WOW! That's discouraging to hear. I do all my work in MA and cover 10 or 12 towns in the Metrowest area and have never run into that. What area or county did you experience that in?
R Man, Diesel,
I remember when I was a kid and my father was first starting out on his own. It took a few years for him to get established. But if you do good work at a fair price, you develop a clientele. After my father eventually retired he still did jobs for some of his old customers. I hope the same thing will happen with me. That said, it’s always hard to break into an established group that’s comfortable with one another."When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading." ~ Henny Youngman
I know this is an old thread, but what the heck, everyone else is at "Rhode Fest," so it's kinda quiet around here...
I prepared for the MA Cosnstuction Supervisors License by taking a course at the local community college. The instructor had been teaching the class for years and took us through the code book line by line and had us highlight all the stuff that would be on the test. I passed the test the first time, but more importantly, I learned a lot about the code and know how to read all those span tables.
As others have said, get your Home Improvement Contractor" registration. I wonder if years as a "HIC" counts as experience?
Insurance hurts. I think I pay about $1200 a year and have never filed a claim in over 15 years of working. I get dropped by the insurance company about every two years and my agent has to find a new one and there are fewer and fewer every year. There must be a lot of crooks and idiots out there filing claims.
Pricing work is always an evolving process. Luckily, I have many loyal customers who trust me to be fair and value what I do. I have zero interest in competing with bozos with no license or insurance. If I suspect a customer is bottom fishing, I won't bother to quote a job. I'm getting to the point where I won't bid on bigger projects for people I don't know. I recently got burned on a major bath remodel bid. I spent many hours and visited the site 3 or 4 times with subs, etc. Mailed the bid. Never even got a phone call. I haven't figured out how to charge for bids yet, but would love to bill for consultation services on something like that.
Al Mollitor, Sharon MA
Yeah I'm kinda prowlin' around here too.....kinda lonely with everyone over at Rhodefest. We're planning on heading down tomorrow morning if my wife gets out of work at a decent hour tonight and the hurricane doesn't cause too much damage down in Florida. She's a little stressed about her folks in Sarasota right about now.
As you know, I'm in MA too. I wouldn't worry about the experience part of the HIC registration, put down what you have and you'll be fine. Unfortunately I suspect it's more of a revenue generator than anything else for the state.
Don't feel bad about the insurance. $1200 ain't bad at all. I pay $26.55 on a thousand for liability and $10.67 on $100 for worker's comp. That's also with ZERO claims. The insurance is a throat cutter here in MA. My liability only covers me on "carpentry, one and two story dwellings". Technically that means no roofs and no whole house GC'ing.
Insurance agent told me he couldn't even get anyone to write a new GC policy in MA for me right now, and if he did it would cost between $29,000 and $30,000 for the year.
Ouch.
learned a lot taking the course, good guys teaching them both instructors we had were in the trades, one now an inspector
re: the bids, best help i ever got was following the lead of a big remodeler after customers showed me their estimator's write-up, always given to HO on the spot noted that when he didn't have a hard price, he gave an ALLOWANCE, SUBJECT TO CHANGE prices weren't real kind, either, but they do big volume, figured he knew something
lot of stuff you know automatically, can make up pricing charts for your clipboard for other items to use in quote, ballpark the unknown noting that it is an "allowance" subject to change
i used to bother subs for info, take the repeat trips and do a typed out quote like yourself, got burned for a lot of time by not getting the job Now it's a written quote on the spot, if in doubt raise the price to where there is no doubt, or give an allowance don't know the difference, maybe customers feel you're more organized, ready to do the job, but i close a lot more jobs since changing over to the "instant write-up / instant gratification" method