Quick question – for those of you who might have built your own houses, or are builders – generally speaking, for mid-level quality construction. What percentage range do materials for the house typically cost as a percentage of the total home cost? Assume ALL labor being separated out of the total, and just the house – no site work or land/water/sewer costs.
I’m guessing the numbers are in the 35-50% range for materials – the labor is the biggest part of the cost of the house.
Self-installing an HVAC system requires a lot of thought and planning.
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Replies
Wrong!
but this depends on how much you sub out on things like the mechanicals.
If you go the primitive way and do ALL ( like you say) the labor yourself, the materials might only be 40% but there are so many built in labor costs that it is hard to do this one.
Someone very handy like Junkhound might be able to build a hogan in five years and do it for 25% material cost.
I did most of the labor on my own and probably spent 60% out
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I'm with Piffin - I think your labor figure is off. But it depends on what you do yourself, too.
When I built the "spec house from hell", it cost me $138,000 to build. I think $22,000~ was labor. I subbed out the HVAC, electrical, foundation, and plumbing.
Subs were $48,000, materials were $50,000, and the balance was "other" - Like permit fees, landscaping, and such.
If I remembered your name, I would have asked you where I left my car keys.
Like I said, it was just a guess. I am building my own house right now, just getting started, and there are some things I will have to sub out (plumbing, heating and electrical). It's simply a point of curiosity for me. I plan on putting in a lot of my own hours on the construction, from footings to roofing and everything in between, and I count that time as zero cost. If I don't have to pay someone to do it for me, I consider it free.
Let's maybe pose another question - if you, as a builder, were building your own house, what things would you definitely sub out and what would you definitely do yourself? I've nailed down the DIY parts, but there's some things like roofing that I'd rather avoid, and tiings like rough-in plumbing and snaking wires that don't require a lot of skill, more like simple supervision and instructions from the master plumber or electrician. I don't want to take money out of someone's pocket, but if I can do basic labor, I will. I just don't want to foul up something I don't know enough about.
"If I don't have to pay someone to do it for me, I consider it free."
I wouldn't go that far. You need to consider some value for your own time. Have you read the Spec House from Hell thread?
When I built that thing, I gave up virtually all of my free time. I missed all kinds of get-togethers, parties, soccer games, etc. Even when I was home, I wasn't always "there". A lot of time I was so tired I was asleep in the recliner in front of the TV instead of spending time with DW and the kids.
Since then I've spent many weekends away from home trying to earn extra money to keep up with the mortgage payments. Since you're building for yourself, that may turn out differently. But if you go over budget...
You time may have zero dollar value, but it has other value. I wouldn't suggest blowing that off too easily.
I'm not trying to bust your chops or anything - Just trying to be realistic about what happened to me.The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. [Helen Rowland]
"If I don't have to pay someone to do it for me, I consider it free."
That will have been your first mistake on this project...LOL
Have you ever seen the humourous articles about how much it costs to heat your home for "free" with firewood that you cut yourself?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"Have you ever seen the humourous articles about how much it costs to heat your home for "free" with firewood that you cut yourself?"
Hey now! Cutting firewood is different.
It's different because.....................Well.....uuhhhhhhhhhhmmmm..........You know.
And if you don't know, Tim Mooney will be along to explain it shortly. (-:It's not true that I had nothing on. I had the radio on. [Marilyn Monroe]
This is not meant as criticism but merely an observation.
I read here and elsewhere professional builders sometimes chiding DIYers. Sometimes we do it for the cost savings, but in some cases (like mine) we do it for the satisfaction.
I am renovating my 1916 bungalow and doing almost everything myself. Sometimes I save money, sometimes it costs me more (gotta factor in those mistakes) but in the end I am doing this because of the incredible satisfaction I gain in doing the work.
i can see both sides of the "consider it free" arguement. In my case the work is more like therapy so I actually see it as saving me money. Of course if you asked my wife...
who knows, maybe deep down I am just a struggling builder waiting to breakout of my current career. On the other hand I can't imagine doing this fotr other people. :)
I don't chide the DIYs. I help them in my own neighborhood. I have worked for them a lot in my life to save them from themselves with little reward for it other than the gratitude they show.
I'm just pointing out that reality is far removed from the innocent ambitions they hold dear.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Sorry I should have posted to ALL as my comments were in no way meant as a criticism of you personally. Just intended as a general observation.
Jon,
I'm in agreement with the other guys. Your time is worth something, just ask the family when you don't see them for two weeks or if you do see them, you're exhausted. I used to pull those 7A to 9P hours working, not any more. Working solo I pulled those long hours to make up for what seemed like little production. Now the wife has a curfew, and for the most part I stick close to an 8 hour day (employees are on the horizon so hopefully with good management that will insure my arriving at home in time for dinner every day or make it worse).
Some of those basic skills like pulling wire and running pipes don't seem so basic when there's a 2" hole drilled through the bottom of a joist in mid span, or the electrician's run his wires 3/4" in from the face of the stud and there are no nail plates.
You seem willing, but proceed cautiously and KNOW your limitations. Work with your subs. Some of those guys are good and fussy. In my house, wires run perfectly straight in rows of up to 5, all hole locations were marked before drilling, etc. Plenty of folks on this forum can tell you Homeowner from Hell stories. Good LuckDave Otto -- Otto Construction -- PA
I can relate to this thread soooo well. I built my own house, not to necessarily save money but to roll that savings back into a nicer house. For example what I saved in labor allowed me to build slightly bigger, get the big whirlpool tub, better floorcoverings ect. But read my thread on roof framing with I-joists. I am no contractor but I am a pretty advanced diy-er, and got caught up in an unfourtanate situation because of my inexperience with dealing with suppliers and ect. That situation is still in the process of getting sorted but it still is a real headache for me.
Having said that, I would probably build another one, (I am a real glutton for punishment). But I believe you would be better off financialy to just go out and find a second job for 2years and put all of the wages from it directly on your mortgage.
P.S. I dont think that I saved much money at all, but I did get a lot of cool new tools.
I understand what you guys are saying about it eating up all of your free time. In my case, I've been slow, business wise, during the winter and that's given me the opportunity to clear my lot and draw up all my plans. I know my limits, and I'm willing to sub it out if I think I'll get in trouble.
As far as saving the money, I wouldn't have bothered if I was Joe Homebuyer and didn't know a floor truss from a breaker panel. As it stands, I have nothing to lose by staying where I live now; we own the house, but it's too small. I could have spent 50 grand on a nice addition and called it quits, but this is our dream house, and a lot of doing it is the satisfaction of saying I built it myself instead of saying "yeah we paid somebody to build it for us" or, "we bought it as is". We're putting in things that are upgrades from normal construction around here, like radiant floor heat, a timber-frame structure, commercial style "cook's kitchen", custom cabinets (from our own trees), insulating concrete forms for the basement, 9' ceilings everywhere, and enough space to be comfortable. Right now I have a portable sawmill on site, and I'm sawing pine for the frame and floors, and cherry and ash for all my cabinets and trim. To me, time IS money, but if it's my time, it's worth whatever I spend. My wife and kids are supporting this, and participating, 100%.
We want to be in the house by Thanksgiving Day, so that gives me eight solid months to go from footings to finishes. I planned my budget for certain jobs to be done 100% by subs (electrical, plumbing) , and some jobs to be done 100% by me (kitchen cabinets, flooring, painting and trim work). The rest will be a mix, and hopefully we will come out somewhere near budget.
We remodeled our current house prior to move in, and didn't quite get it done. That was 2001, and it's still not done. Learned a lesson there - we aren't moving until the new house is 100% finished, right down to the curtains on the windows.
What to sub out? Depends on what you do well and cost/benefit. For me, I sub out excavation, concrete, roof sheathing, roofing, masonry, siding, HVAC (needs license), gasfitting (likewise, license), and drywall. I can do plumbing. Uglier, but much cheaper and functional. I can do electrical. Likewise, not quite as perfect, but pretty good. Framing, no problem. Trim, takes patience and I use more spackle. Drywall? Nope. Heavy work and pros can do it faster and cheaper. I don't like to be on the roof with sheets of OSB and horse around tons of shingles. Concrete, subs can do it faster and better. I can do nice brick work, but I'm slow.
Get the foundation done. Needs a good crew and forms. I do the framing. Get a sub to roof and try to get it under cover fast. If its going to be exposed for long, I paint the subfloor with cheap exterior paint. Doors and windows I can do. Get it sided. A couple days for them versus a long time for me. Once the shell is up, the rest can go at whatever pace you want. I've found for both insulation and drywall subs can do the whole job for what it would cost me in materials alone.
I'm going to disagree with most of the folks responding to your post.
First of all, I discount the "Spec House From Hell," as an example of how much a house can cost (I'm not knocking the story - I feel for the guy, I truly do - some projects are just cursed from the very start). EVERYONE knows that building anything in the winter will substantially increase your costs.
As far as material costs go... and I may be taking this for granted, ANYONE can get contractor cost (or less) for material, just be willing to play different lumber yards against each other, look for ebay specials etc.
And I DO agree with your labor estimate. Also, the higher quality the house, the greater the percentage of labor. If you are willing to really search for close outs and bargains, than your looking in the 40% range or less for material. However, this figure needs to be taken overall. For instance, framing a wall and installing windows have a higher material percentage than finished trim work.
Roofing though, is an entirely different matter, which is why it surprised me that you seemed hesitant to tackle your roofing. If you will be using asphalt 3 tab or architecturals, the material cost is extremely low. I would definitely consider doing your own roof. It's quick, (somewhat) easy, and you will save a couple grand in labor costs.
Painting is another example where labor costs far outweigh material costs. Flooring is yet another example where labor is often in the 75% range.
Think of it this way - I live in a relatively cheap area of the country as far as labor costs go. I pay my grunts about 9$ - 10$ per hour and bill them out at $25.00 per hour. I pay my higher level guys 15$ to 20$ per hour and bill them out at $35 - and these rates are cheap! Many areas of the country are much much higher!
The other guys are right though - if you don't factor in your time spent, you could be screwing yourself in the long run.
Your post makes a lot of sense to me. I have never done roofing, so I'm hesitant. If a good roofer were to teachme, I'd be all set. I'm comfortable on a roof (vol. firefighter) so the only hesitation is that I'd mess it up, and I have seen enough bad roofing jobs to know that that's very important to me that it's done right.
I had every intention of starting my project last fall, and was told by nearly everyone I sopke to that I was wise to wait. That way, I don't have concrete spalling, heating issues, or cold working conditions.
Painting and trim I'll be doing myself. Flooring I'll have minimal costs since I'm manufacturing my own - basically nails and a nailer, a finish, and labor.
I have a guy who is an experienced "handyman" type - kind of a jack-of-all-trades, who works for me fulltime (we do surveying and site design), and he gets a decent rate of pay, probably twice what local laborers get. I can pay him to help me, and it will cost me half of what other contractors would charge me for labor. He's built houses before, so I trust his work. Shoudl work out fine. Even if he works 40 hours a week for the next six months, only on the house, it's still only 10% of my estimated costs for the entire project.
I built a 5000 sq. ft house with one guy working part time while i worked full time at night .I would get off work go to the lumber yard load up and frame all day then nap in a hammock and go into work that night. I took 14 months and was never completely finished. If I do it again I will hire a framing crew and speed that part of the process up. Framing crews seem to make the least out of all the subs and get the most accomplished and the reduction in physical labor alone would be worth it.
ANDYSZ2I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
Remodeler/Punchout
I just had LOML run a moderate sized addition thru quickbooks--
We did ALL of the work ourselves including footers, masonry, framing, roofing etc. (this includes all the cabinetry, laminate countertops, rock etc.)
Total project was around 90k - material costs were about 40k - this included approx 12k worth of windows.
We had pretty much 4 - 5 guys working on the project. I did all of the cabinetry myself. The home owners loved everything, but I'd rate the job as mid to low level. Higher quality finish work and cabinetry would have jacked that labor cost up quite a bit.
This was the first project that I we decided to do EVERYTHING on and we definitely learned some important things.
While hanging rock is child's play - finish work should be done by a qualified pro!
It was my first cabinetry venture, and while they turned out well for cabinets of a rustic nature, the time involved just wasn't worth it! However, just as in framing and roofing, if I had spent another 8 hours on figuring my cut list and assembly procedures, I could have saved probably 30 - 40 hours of labor costs in the actual manufacture of the cabinets!
I know it sounds strange, but my whole goal when I started in biz for myself 10 years ago, was to acquire the tools and knowledge to build my own house. My reckoning was that I could build a house that would appraise out at around 600k for about 200k. I still believe that under the right conditions this could be done, but realistically speaking, it probably won't happen like that.
So, back to your original question, it seems like the material portion was around 40% of the project. Although equipment rentals ran us about 4k for excavator, skid steer etc.
I bought an old home with a couple of acres a few years back that needed lots of work...gutted the whole house, ripped out the walk up attic & roof and added a 2nd floor. In the mean time my wife had our 2nd child (to go along w/a 1yr old) and I worked full time. Yeah maybe my labor was "free" but I missed out on alot of family time and a boat load of sleep.... it was definately more expense than I planned material wise, and I subbed out the elec/plumbing/hvac and drywall/plastering...everything else I did myself our with a helper, so my labor costs were kept to a minumum. Though I would tell those that beware of hiring family members..the "uncle" I hired as a carpenter was a lazy-#### complainer who I had to fire after (the 15yr old goofer that cleaned up the trash) told me was hangin' around drinking coffee until I showed up and charging me for his beverage time....that caused quite a problem at thanksgiving and christmas let me tell ya!!
but I'd do it again because I have a beautiful house thats I bought for $120,000.00 in '98 and was recently appraised at $490,000.00 by the bank.