Replies

1. 
   LIVEONSAWDUST | Dec 16, 2008 07:51pm | #1

   The substrate all depends on the finish materials. In a working fireplace all combustible materials must be keep a certain distance away from the firebox, I dont recall the exact distance right now.

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   user-51823 | Dec 16, 2008 09:01pm | #2

   right- i'm aware of that much.I'm wondering what fireproof materials would be available for different jobs; ie, if i want to do tile, what would I mount to the brick? If I want wood panelling to match my trim, what would I use under that to protect the wood? And would there be one I might use in an all-purpose application, that would take tile but which i might also be able to cover with wood panels?

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   YesMaam27577 | Dec 16, 2008 10:07pm | #3

   If you want to do ceramic or stone tile, you need to use a bonding agent on the brick, then the thinset. If you're worried about an uneven surface, you could parge the brick face as an interim coat.You also mention wood paneling or trim. Note that combustibles must be kept at least 12" away from the opening (last time I checked anyway), so you'll need to either leave some of the brick uncovered, or you'll need to use a non-combustible material for those areas (all three of them, right, left, and above the opening)A remodel that I'm working on has a walkout basement that will be a sort of mother-in-law suite. It had a 1970-style brick wall, with a brick hearth and a fireplace. It now has drywall, a wood mantle and front-piece, with granite that will match the kitchenette counters as the "surround".I don't know if granite is a good idea in this situation or not -- the HO didn't ask me, and I don't know if he asked anyone else. But the granite sales/installation guys told the HO "no problem".As for mounting the non-combustibles.....mortar works. Mounting the wood paneling or mantlepiece involves nailers that are mounted with anchors into the brick.

   Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.

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   user-51823 | Dec 17, 2008 01:47am | #4

   i don't know what "parge" means, but i had it in my mind that i would probably cover the entire thing with some sort of non-flamable sheet material (using screws and adhesive?), then tile or panel over that, with your 12 surround around the opening.

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   BobinMaine | Dec 17, 2008 04:48am | #5

   Hey we have a similar situation with a bunch of plain and ugly brick with no real design concept. 70's house. My plan is to use HardieBacker to help provide a flat surface more easily tiled than parged brick. We are leaning towards 3/8' granite 12x12 tiles surrounding the woodstove insert with a wood mantle surround around the tiled opening set back far enough for fire code restrictions. I'm thinking 8" wide is enough for the tile on the sides, but the height above the firebox or in our case the wood insert is very specific depending on the projection out from the wall. In our situation I think it is about 48" above the hearth. All this needs to be doublechecked. All of the work is pretty easy the real trick is, as it usually is, to get the proportions, design and the materials to work together.
   With an insert it seems obvious to lay the granite and let the insert or glass doors overlay the stone tiles. The wood surround usually overlays the tile, marble or stone on the outside.
   That was our plan, but we got sidetracked with more urgent projects. Still need to check if hardibacker is acceptably noncombustible. If not I would guess cement board is probably okay, you would have to check. I used Hardibacker under a kitchen tile floor and liked it pretty well. It seems easier to me as an amateur tiler if the subsurface is flat and level. A granite place told me that they use a high temperature construction adhesive (without the backer board) I would go that route if I was going to use granite scraps, say 3/4 X 8 x 36" for the side uprights with a 3/4 x8 header across the top and supported by the sides.
   These are just a couple ideas. Lots of examples in magazines, including some very good designs for wood surrounds also called fireplace fronts or mantles. Folks use these terms differently across the country. A person could cover the brick entirely with tile or granite, but it might seem pretty overwhelming or cold and boxy. At least ours would. A combination of Wood, with tile or stone, and glass doors or an insert offers lots of design possibilities. It can be a focal point or just be understated and right whatever you want. The wood surround covers the outside edges of the tiles and can be anchored in many ways. They are sometimes mounted with fasteners that are concealed with trim, pilasters, crown mould etc. and usually have returns scribed back to the wall on either side.
   Hope this helps. Bob

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   user-51823 | Dec 17, 2008 05:32am | #6

   Thanks for the info. Is cement board the same stuff as the "diamond board" (used in my last bath reno under new tile floor)? I figured that it would definitely work, but didn't know it it would be overkill or if there are other products out there ideal for this.FYI, in my case I am not looking to make the fireplace look "updated"; I just want it to look like a better quality job done vintage-style, ca 1922. Around here, they are usually tile, wood, or cast iron. I'm busy with a kitchen reno and haven't thought much about what look i want on the fireplace, i just know it needs to be something else.

3. 
   RalphWicklund | Dec 17, 2008 07:22am | #7

   The original fireplace was only as wide and as tall as the new granite facing.

   It had two layers of 4 1/4" wall tile set in a full mortar bed over brick. I guess the second layer of tile was installed only to change the face color.

   Removing the tile also removed the mortar bed and the original brick was neither plumb nor flush.

   I plumbed up the face with a slathering of new mortar and to get it flat with a consistant depth I used two layers of 1/2" Hardie Backer set to the mortar base with thinset and tapcons.

   Getting the substrate right is more than half the battle and makes installing my shop built mantle a piece of cake. The only scribing I had to do was the back edge of the mantle top to the wall. The wainscoting to the left and right hid the small imperfections where the side panels of the surround met the wall.

   Shameless reposting of my mantle pic:

   View Image

   Edited 12/16/2008 11:24 pm ET by RalphWicklund

4. 
   YesMaam27577 | Dec 17, 2008 04:04pm | #9

   >>"i don't know what "parge" means, but ...."It means that you add a layer of mortar to the face of the brick, troweling it in place to a reasonably smooth surface. Parging is commonly done inside the smoke-shelf area of a chimney, sometimes on the outside of foundation walls.If you want to cover the face with non-combustible sheet goods, then fire-rated drywall is one option. Another might be Hardie backer. I'd have to research whether or not the perma-base backers would be OK, since they use a plastic foam aggregate -- it might not be NON-combustible.You also need to think of the fastening method for the sheet goods. The fasteners must also be fireproof. Tapcons come to mind -- Lowes has them.

   Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.

2. 
   wallyo | Dec 17, 2008 09:04am | #8

   You may want to take a look here at least for some ideas

   http://jerongmarble.com/show_fireplacemantels.asp?cat_id=58

   wood and stone might be a bit fancy for some tastes but there prices are not too bad.

   Wallyo

3. 
   MikeHennessy | Dec 17, 2008 07:15pm | #10

   I had a similar problem -- ugly brick fireplace. Solved it by screwing diamond lath to the brick, and mortaring on some sandstone that I had cut to about 1-1/2" thick. We really like the results. Here's a pic of My Lovely Assistant tapping the final stone home. The plywood you see is a mock-up of the mantle that was installed later -- acted as sort of a form for the stonework.

   View Image

   Mike Hennessy
   Pittsburgh, PA

   
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   user-51823 | Dec 17, 2008 09:45pm | #11

   Thanks for all the advice and photos!FYI, the original wood mantle is fine, though shallow, and continues around the adjacent walls as the top of built-in bookcases flanking the fireplace; I don't want to rip it out or replace it. the problem is going to be doing a "thin" treatment, so i don't bulk out the FP too much.I'll post photos in a few days- my 7-yr old son built me a "retreat" right in front of it that he's very proud of and it's a bit hard to see right now :-) In the meantime, I'm thinking that the best way to keep the new face from bulging too far out from where the mantle starts would be to do some thin wood trim (veneer that matches the mantle) over the substrate for a few inches, then some sort of molding to finish it off, over the tile or other treatment I use. Will try to sketch it out and scan for your consideration later-Thanks again!

2. 
   JDRHI | Dec 17, 2008 11:45pm | #12

   You can't just post a teaser like that and not follow up....where's the pic of the completed project?

   J. D. Reynolds

   Home Improvements

    

    

    

1. 
   MikeHennessy | Dec 18, 2008 01:42am | #14

   LOL!

   Who cares about the completed project? It's all about the JOURNEY, Grasshopper!

   Serially, I didn't have a more recent snap on my PC. So I just took one. Lousy lighting, but you'll get the idea. Quilted & curley cherry, finished with shellac, thank you very much Frenchy! ;-)

   View Image

   Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA

1. 
   JDRHI | Dec 18, 2008 06:23am | #15

   Absolutely gorgeous.....great wok Sensai!

   J. D. Reynolds

   Home Improvements

    

    

    

1. 
   MikeHennessy | Dec 18, 2008 03:58pm | #16

   "Absolutely gorgeous....."

   Thanks, but compared to what was there before, anything would be geee-orgious. ;-)

   Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA

4. 
   coffeymaker | Dec 18, 2008 01:13am | #13

   I just installed a mantle in my home and used granite for the face closest to the firebox.  Because of the size of the peices, I got them pretty cheack form the broken slab pile.  I good heavy duty adhesive should be all you need to attach the peices, if you install them as two "legs" covered by the third.  That way most of the weight is downforce.  Just brace them agaisnt the mantle until the adhesive sets up.