<BTW, what’s the next project?>
Three bathrooms to renovate for a long-time client. master is to take this
And turn it to something along the lines of this
Then, combine or just reno a three-part “Jack & Jill” bathroom (Jack & Jill & Judy?).
Should start within three weeks; as soon as I can trim out and paint that attic.
Forrest
Edited 3/28/2007 7:22 pm by McDesign
Edited 3/28/2007 7:22 pm by McDesign
Replies
Here's the other bathroom(s)
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Here's one possibility to get rid of three doors and get some wall space back to the bedrooms
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Forrest
Edited 3/29/2007 7:43 pm by McDesign
Edited 3/29/2007 7:43 pm by McDesign
From a use point of view, you might want to add a door between the toilet/tub and the sink/prep area. This would let one person use the potty or shower without interfering with another persons ability to apply makeup and hair.
If you want to keep the open feeling, you could make it an extra long pocket door.
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Edited 3/29/2007 8:43 pm ET by xxPaulCPxx
It's a bit tight on the toilet user's left shoulder, but I agree, it needs to be considered.
Forrest
How about moving the right JnJ door down and reversing the swing so that it swings against the wall? It may allow a longer vanity. I also second the recommendation for a wall and door between sink and stool area if space allows.John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
Hmm - there is a door to the right of the right door that's in the way anyway.
Like the bigger vanity though.
These two bedrooms and bathroom have 13 doors in total. Strange house!
Forrest - workin' on this
Thought that "13 doors" existing situation might need a sketch
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Forrest
Edited 3/29/2007 9:26 pm by McDesign
hmmm...what a mess. Personally to minimize the renovation I would leave both sink area doors where there are, demo the wall between both, insert a dbl vanity where you have drawn but make larger and run all the way against the right wall with a linen closet to the left of the vanity. And then do the wall with door between sink and toilet/tub area providing that you have about 6' inside. The tiny closet in the left bedroom is driving me crazy. I would either incorporate it into the closet to behind it or move the bedroom door down (if space allows) so that the tiny closet is outside the bedroom. This way you only end up with three doors in each bedroom.John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
Thanks for the update Forrest. Also, thanks for the drawings. You just saved me a he!! of a lot of time planning a shared bath we need in our upcoming flip house.
BTW, where do I send the check?Live in the solution, not the problem.
Nice drawings.
What CAD program do you use?
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Old copy of AutoCAD - version 14, I think. I'm just so used to it I don't have to think!
Forrest
Forrest,
I've always liked AutoCad; probably because it was the first one I learned.
I don't use it anymore in my work but started with version 2.18 back in the mid-80's.
I understand staying with something that you can be on "autopilot" with.
Marc
Forrest, re your usage of Acad, you oughta try Sketchup. The short learning curve is well worth the effort.
I divorced Acad a long while back, and subsequently dumped ProEngineer, and Intergraph's Solid Edge. I have an old version of Cadkey (a lot like Acad), and we are working on a separation.
Take a look at this little flythrough of a Calatrava roof structure, all done in SU. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeeeGZuTxWY
For remodeling work, the way SU can integrate with photos give it a real edge, IMHO.
Here is a Jack and Jill upgrade we designed, for inspiration. We call them Hollywood baths, I don't know why. Jack and Jill makes better sense.
We have done some similar to your design, opened the doors from the bedroom into the bedroom or against the wall opposite the vanity. We also close off the toilet and bathtub with wall and door, as others have suggested.
Cool! Okay, how about this? Back to the master bath; I'm trying to keep some light in the bedroom area. Right now, it gets some light from the paired windows on the right (facing north), that now will be in the bathroom. I'll have a skylight over the shower, so I was thinking of a fixed window above the shower into the bedroom. The ceiling does follow the roof plane as drawn (to scale), and the stair is open on the near side, with an angled knee wall as a balustrade.
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Thumbs up? Better ideas? Anyone? Buhler?
Forrest
Edited 4/1/2007 9:36 pm by McDesign
Your plan seems like a good one to allow some light in the MBR.
When we have a window at a large MBA tub, we use obscure glass block. We buy units that are assembled, and install like a regular window. See pic.
Where do the stairs go from the MBR?
Although your bathroom is perhaps too small, we sometimes have connection from the MBA to the MBR Closet, and seperate the spaces from the MBR with a door. This allows the early or late use of bathroom and closet without disturbance of the other partner (who may be sleeping).
The attached plan is a large space designed for such considerations.
Also, note the dual shower heads (they are actually vertical spas), the large shower with seat, the enclosed toilet, and rolling dual sided chest in the closet.
Perhaps you can not use these ideas in your situation, but they may inpsire your future.
Edited 4/2/2007 9:19 am ET by txlandlord
<Where do the stairs go from the MBR?>
They go up that half-level, and are then on the kitchen level. If you look at the other bathroom drawing, they come up just at the top left of that drawing, above the closet with the bi-folds.
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Interesting house, with five living levels. Every room has a walk-out door to grade or a balcony. I've done a good amount of work on it; built an entry tower a few years ago; good repeat clients.
Forrest
Edited 4/3/2007 5:40 am by McDesign
Edited 4/3/2007 5:41 am by McDesign
Sounds typically Georgian (Georgia). My sister lives outside of Atlanta, adn I am familiar with multi-level homes in Alabama, Tennessee (home state) Georgia and other southern states.
Here in this part of Texas most everything is flat, or small rolling hills. No basements or split levels.
We once built a home in Memphis with footing and block wall foundation. It was one block high on one side and 18 blocks high on the other. On others, we had flat lots and I introduced my partner to monolithic / slab on grade foundations from Texas experience, he was amazed and we saved time and money.
We call them Hollywood baths, I don't know why
I want to remember, it was from having a row of vanities, emulating a hollywood dressing table sort of situation.
Your plan is classic j-n-j, though, with the "ciccane" path through them.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Most people here would NOT want to be facing straight on to the john first thing as they enter. They usulally want it off or shielded and then see the pretty vanity or a window aas they first enter.
It would be handy though when a heavy night of drinking or a stomach virus has you aimed the right direction when you run in there.
;)
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/how-to/drawing-board/planning-master-baths.aspx?nterms=61642
Thanks all for all the good input. Here's the state of design now.
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Planned start date is 23 April; this area first; then the master bath.
Forrest
Edited 4/4/2007 7:02 am by McDesign
Here's how I originally got street cred with this client. Did the work 5-6 years ago.
Before
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After
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Forrest
Gonna have a Hell of a time getting the car through the new garage door.
;)
jt8
"We ourselves feel that what we are doing is just a drop in the ocean. But the ocean would be less because of that missing drop."-- Mother Teresa
Edited 4/6/2007 1:11 pm by JohnT8
Very nice! The only thing I am worried about is the space in front of the vanity. 52" minus 24" = 28" which is really minimal. Can you go to two pedestal sinks or some other trick to get at least 30" there?
Vanity tops are often 22" so he would have 30" there. Could even go down to 18-20" for the vanity.
Vanity tops are often 22" so he would have 30" there. Could even go down to 18-20" for the vanity.
Good point--we usually build our own or design them and have them built, so I forget they aren't usually the 24" we like to make them.
My new vanity at home is only 18" deep with a 19" top. It works fine, although the faucet is pretty tight against the backsplash making it hard to clean.
That design looks very nice. Have you considered a single top covering the whole width, curved to fit the space. Narrower by the doors and wider in the center, with a matching curved vanity. Adds some complexity but I think i would look nicer than all the seperate cabinets.
Looks like a very functional bath.
I think the shallow depth on each side cabinets are 7' H.
That may be, hard to read what the dimension means. I would still prefer one continuous curved cabinet even if it meant having another cabinet on top of the counter for added storage above. Glass doors in the uppers would look nice as well.
The effect would be a much more "built for the space" look which I prefer.
Since you already have the "investment" of 84" tall case work, wouldn't pedastal lavs give a tad more perception of space, by giving the eye "floor area" to see?
Just a thought.
Might be acool spot for a "floating" bowl set up, either--maybe.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
The "floor area" thing is exactly what I did in my bathroom--Furniture-style legs on the vanity, and don't fill everything into the corners or up to the ceilings. Really makes a big difference on the perception of space.
Really makes a big difference on the perception of space
That's why I liked how forrest was not using a full-width bit of casework on either side, gives some wall as well as floor perception.
In such cases, it can really be worth it to get the cabinet shop to forego a standard toe kick for furniture feet. (Only tricky part is if some body tries to "move" the "furniture," later--especially if it's done the way I will, and steal an extra 4" of depth by niching into the wall . . . )
Depending on the style of the house/bathroom, those dimensions might allow a person to install a "floating" vanity, too, where the bowl "hovers" over a shelf. This can seem impractical at first, but can be very neat & clean, by using wall-mounted fixtures to things that normally clutter a vanity counter top.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
We speaka da same language....
Wall-mount fixtures are great.
Vessel sinks look great. Not so fun to clean around though. Remember this is a kid's bath.
Vessel sinks look great. Not so fun to clean around though. Remember this is a kid's bath
Well, selection would be critical. But some are definitely better than a self-rimming lav on a minimal counter-top, as far as cleaning goes. Having the plumbing on the wall means never having to find that one cleaning tool that fits between the faucet and backsplash, too . . .
Now, without any direct exerience mind you, that lower surface would suggest a bit better kid-friendly height for putting things back where they belong, too. Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Good points.
The last vessel sink I saw was at a hotel in Quebec City, nice Grohe wall-mount faucet and nice cabinetry...and a big messy smear of silicon around the bowl.
I know it can be done better though. I did one once with a Ming Green marble counter and a handmade glass bowl, set half into the counter so the angle where the bowl met the counter wasn't too acute. Much tidier install.
Integral sink, wall mounted fixtures. Easiest to clean of all.
I know it can be done better though.
Yeah, ain't that the "rub" of it?
I'll see a display, and think, "I could do that with [stuff], and for half that retail, too . . . "
Sorta, have, too. Did a "bunk house" for a hunting ranch, the vanity was a galvanized "bucket" (don't ask me where they got this, but they did--about 24" round by 6" deep) which was set into a hole cut through the top, which was rough-side-out western cedar. It had all the makings of elegant, too--other than the clients <sigh>Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Forrest,
Nice redo of the entrance and eliminating the garage doors. Split-levels are always a challenge.
IMHO garages should be limted to sides and rear of homes. Never happen on narrow lots.
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Looks nice.
Have you considered having separate vanities but putting them in alcoves in the bedrooms (not walled and doored rooms)? It's nice to be able to brush teeth, apply makeup, etc. with privacy and not have anyone rushing you. Have just the stool and the tub in the shared part of the bathroom.
Generally speaking, if I have a separate bedroom from somebody, I'm not going to be in the bathroom at the same time as them, so two sinks in one (non-master) bath seems funny to me.
<two sinks in one (non-master) bath >
The idea is that each kid spits in his/her own sink, I think!
Forrst
Understood. So as long as both kids are the same sex and get along OK, then both sinks will be used. Otherwise....
Having the sink in the bedroom is one of my "Dream Home" items. Whenever I've been in older homes that included this feature, I've loved it.
Would the pocket door fit in the wall beside the toilet so it slides in the opposite direction? Might give someone sitting on the toilet a better feeling of privacy?
Same opening - just reverse the direction the door closes.
Hmmm. Good thought. Any voters out theere?
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Forrest
Edited 4/4/2007 8:37 pm by McDesign
Aye for the door change.
Looks good!
I like the door change but I thought you couldn't put a 2/6 door in that space. I'm assuming 5' tub 62" r.o. for the pocket door plus allowance for interior casing on the right?
Edited to add: Went to Trader Joes tonight and bought 4 bottles of 2 Buck Chuck ($2.99) to ponder this quandry.
John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
Edited 4/5/2007 10:28 pm ET by JLazaro317
The door would have to slide into the transverse wall a bit - I've done that occasionally; seems to work okay - you can get another 3-1/4" that way (2x4 + 1/2" DW - 1x bump stop)
Forrest
I considered that, but I assumed you would need 65-3/4". 62" rough plus cripple + stud + 1x bump. Whereas you have 63-1/2" (60" opening + 3-1/2" wall stud thickness.)John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
Ahh. I see your question. But, I magically hang the track and header. I'll post a pic when I do it, but basically that end of the dbl 2x8 header hangs between 2x4s on either side within the transverse wall; thru-bolted three places.
Forrest
Edited to add: good choice in vino!
Edited 4/6/2007 1:24 pm by McDesign
My wife and I call it Three Buck Chuck.
It's still $2 in CA from what I hear.
Went out to CA last year twice...never been before. We toured Sonoma and a few wineries. Had a blast. While there, heard about 2 Buck Chuck. Anyway heard it brought back up here on Breaktime along with Trader Joe's. When I got home last night DW asked if I wanted to go to TJ's. Got there and got lots of yummy stuff. We were headed out to check out, passed the wine aisle, and saw the 2 Buck Chuck. Couldn't pass up a good deal so got 1 bottle of each variety (Chardonnay, Shiraz, Merlot, and ......can't remember the last). Anyway I'll see which I prefer so when I go back I can make an "informed decision". DW usually prefers a Chardonnay anyway.John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
There was an article in Inc. or Entrepreneur a few months back about Charles Shaw. He's quite the independent spirit. The rest of Napa and Sonoma hate him for selling reasonably good wine at such low prices.
It can take some work to find which kind you prefer. We've tried dozens of bottles and still can't decide....
You might want to reconsider having the stairs so close to a door. I would recommend at least three feet of clear space from any opening before the first step-down. Coming out of the bathroom in the dark, especially for an older person, a child, a sleepy person, a person who has had two glasses of wine, etc - can be very dicey. Falling forward on the stairs does not have to be fatal; however, falling sideways puts you completely at the mercy of gravity.
Edit:
Sorry, I just noticed that the stairs go up. I will leave the post anyway because it is, IMO, an important point for anyone planning a doorway next to a stairway.
Edited 4/3/2007 6:10 pm ET by Sasquatch
Nice plans, lotta plumbing to move though.__________________________
Judo Chop!
Started today on the upstairs bathroom pair. This the larger of two bedrooms; on the south side. Door to right gets swung the other way. New door to vanity area will be wher the pic is on the wall. Two 2' doors will be closed up.
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Tiny!
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Shared shower area. tub will remain; tile will be sprayed white by Unique Refinishers; new faucets and trim.
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Other bedroom (north) looking thru to kitchen. Door on right gets closed up; door into existing toilet are (to be shared vanity area) gets enlarged to 2-6.
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Looking from north bedroom through shared bath area to south bedroom. Both these doors will be closed up; shower area will only be accessable through shared vanity area.
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Forrest - singing a new song
Edited 4/30/2007 12:51 pm by McDesign
Started to remove doors and stuff - That floor register has to get relocated, too.
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This is a pic from the kitchen; shared vanity area will be behind the wall. Right door goes to north bedroom; left door goes to south bedroom.
View ImageForrest
Edited 4/30/2007 12:51 pm by McDesign
Fixture removal and DW demo tjhis aft.
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Forrest
Edited 4/30/2007 5:23 pm by McDesign
Master bath "before" I tear it up. this is the stair down from the kitchen to the master suite - bed to the right, closets and bath to the left.
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Looking around the corner at the bottom of the stair
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looking back up the stair
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Looking into the MBa
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Typical 1960 tub and tile,with major settling and rot beneath
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Vanity goes - mirror will get re-used if i can remove it - piano wire?
Forrest
Edited 4/30/2007 5:32 pm by McDesign
Piano wire or 1/16" steel braided cable should remove the mirror. I like the cable... it's softer on the hands.
I hate to see perfectly good tile being removed. I lived in a house with the seafoam green tile and matching tub, toilet and sink in the full bath. Loved the work... lived with the color.
Our half bath (smaller than your project) was pink and brown like the one you show, but the sink and toilet matched the pink. I fought the wife to keep that craftsmanship alive 'til we moved. I won and the house was sold to someone who really enjoyed the "feel" of the '50's in the bathrooms.
Hate to see it go, but I know you'll do the project justice.
I'll enjoy watching, though.Troy Sprout
Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it."-- Thomas Sowell
I know what you mean about the tile color and coolness factor. I had this idea of carefully removing and selling the sets of towel racks, soap dispensers, and toilet paper holder on EBay (client was cool with it). On closer inspection, almost everything is cracked or damaged in some way. Every tile right angle joint is cracked - floors are 1x6 diagonal plain boards, with about 1/2' mud bed and tile on that. walls at least have expanded metal mesh, but still only 1/2" thick.
I've seen a place on the web that sells complete NOS bathroom suites from the '40s-'60s, and that stuff is PRICEY!
House has some nice rooms and nice light (some of my earlier work) but the bathrooms have always been small and dark.
Forrest
Love it. Post Deco colors.
David Hawks talks about demo finesse. I doubt those tiles can be salvaged but they were definitely part of an era.
Chuck S
live, work, build, ...better with wood
More demo in the twin bath today; all but tile. Spent a long time looking at the existing framing, trying to be as efficient as possible. Had some Eureka moments while imagining use of the rooms, and found some ways to use existing openings - Client decided she didn't want sliding doors; I really wanted to add skylights, but the budget was fixed.
Decided I could save enough with the new plan today to add (2) Velux FS 106 that fit between 16" OC rafters, and simple shafts - only a 4/12 pitch, and less than 4' up off the ceiling. Customer went for the new plan!
Original planView Image
Contract planView Image
New, better plan to be builtView Image
Forrest - boy, I love the design part!
Edited 5/1/2007 5:33 pm by McDesign
Nice Plan!
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Sheeze, looks like there's no where to stand that you dont' get a door in the a$$. Shame you couldn't convince them of the merits of pocket doors.
The new BA will look a whole lot better though. I know Mike Smith uses those sun tunnel type skylights. Seems like I've seen somewhere where they could have to tubes coming off one roof penetration. Would that help the budget any?jt8
"The lowest ebb is the turn of the tide."-- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
I'm familiar and quick with the Velux narrow skylights, and they're in stock at HD for cheap. Have never tried the tubes.
Forrest
<no where to stand that you dont' get a door in the a$$.>
LOL! Clients laughed at that
Today I finished tearing it all out and got to the dump a third time. Over 5000 lbs of debris just from this, and I didn't even take the tub or surround or ceiling. Used a rented pipe snapper to break up the soil pipe - that's a darned heavy and awkward tool! Cut off the water under the house; made a pair of valved runs just for this bathroom.
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Forrest
Edited 5/3/2007 5:22 pm by McDesign
Edited 5/3/2007 5:23 pm by McDesign
Edited 5/3/2007 5:23 pm by McDesign
Cast iron soil pipe is really quiet, but a bear to work with. SO much simplier to cut off and cement PVC.
Is this view from the left BR?
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jt8
"The lowest ebb is the turn of the tide."-- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
No. I'm standing right about at the "m" in the right bedroom. They can live with the noise; below is a storage and exercise room.
Making material ordering lists now, actually! Wanted to put skylights in, but it's raining.
Forrest
Been raining here for several days. Supposed to rain for another 8 or so. What do you wanna bet that the crete guy who has pushed back my porch slab from April to May 9 is gonna push it back even further?
And the porch slab holds up the porch roof which holds up the roof reshingle, which holds up various projects inside for fear of 'em getting wet. I guess you could say "delays are grand", except that the definition of 'grand' here isn't wonderful but rather $1k.
;)
jt8
"One of the true tests of leadership is the ability to recognize a problem before it becomes an emergency." -- Arnold H. Glasgow
Okay - got the DWV and supplies in yesterday - love those new Shark Bite couplings (sez the plumber) - wish he could have dropped that 3" sweep some on the left, but there was just no room. Least there's just a big storage closet below in the basement.
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Edited 5/8/2007 7:35 pm by McDesign
Edited 5/8/2007 7:37 pm by McDesign
Good day today - got all the vanities and tops and exhaust fans and kits and lights and faucets and skylights and towel racks for all the bathrooms in the last 24 hours - $3700, but everything's on-site.
Work-wise, I got all the chopped-up joists sistered and blocked; used screwed and glued 2x4s
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Then I got busy after lunch and screwed and glued new T&G decking down. This gets another layer of 3/8" CDX, then 1/2" DuraRock and tile.
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Exposed bits of CPVC will be concealed under the base of the double-lav vanity - didn't want to notch the actual joist - you know how plumbers can be!
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Then after a quick early dinner I re-framed all the new walls and door rough openings; closed up two old openings into the tub area. Lots of driving in shims to tighten up the old studs and goofy headers
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I'll recess the toilet paper holder in the boxed area; it's kinda' tight in there!
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Forrest - maybe DW and skylights tomorrow; gotta start demo on the MB
Edited 5/8/2007 7:56 pm by McDesign
Forrest,
Looks good. Are you under a time deadline? Or are no inspections required when you modify DVW lines?
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
<no inspections required >
I'm not changing form, fit, or function. It was a bathroom before, and it will be a bathroom after. I don't agree that anybody can tell people what they can do inside their homes, but that's just an issue I have!
Just re-tiling and fixing some stuff and adding three skylights, like it says on my Development Review form with our town P&Z.
Did you ever see the movie Brazil, and DeNiro's commando non-official HVAC repairman? That character's always been a hero to me . . .
Forrest
<Edit> Client is in Italy - I'm trying to get the bulk of the home upset done while they're gone
Edited 5/8/2007 10:35 pm by McDesign
As an official Libertarian, I salute your efforts! Guess I need to put Brazil on my to-watch list.Two questions for you...How come you plumbed before you sistered? Is it easier that way? Or just a personal preference.No PEX for you guys in GA?Looking good. As always, I am in awe of your speed.
I decided I had more flexibility in the sistering than the plumbing. The structure was sound; it had just been chiseled down for a morter bed floor. Sistering could easily be built around the plumbing.
Never used PEX - seems like a good idea, but no time to learn on this one.
Forrest
Thanks for the info Forrest,I'll provide a report in the next week or so when I start on my PEX project if you'd like. Seems pretty easy and straightforward. Follow up question on the floor for you...what's causing the need for the double underlayment layer? So the tile is flush with the surrounding floor? Or is there a structural element I missed.
Michael Byrne is my tile god, and he wants at least 1-1/8" of ply under my tile backer board. Also helps to stagger joints, tie in with the contiguous diagonal subfloor, and just generally makes me feel better!
Forrest
More - installed the pair of skylights and flashed yesterday, then built the splayed shafts. Insulated today; mounted the exhaust fan, did lots of little stuff; towel bar blocking; got DW, started to hang; then had to baby-sit while DW taught her cooking class tonight.
Here's the skylight over the vanity room - Velux FS056; fits between 16" OC rafters; about 46" long - On the ceiling, I sistered one joist and moved the other over an inch and a half - joists and raters offset here. I like making the wall continue up smoothly to the skylight molding on the low side like this -View Image
Here's the other skylight (tub/toilet area) looking toward the high side - I mounted the ventilation fan here; NuTone said vertical mount was okay. This shaft wall is splayed out to meet the other plate across the little room; about 15º -View Image
Wall shared with kitchen; double vanity and light bars go here -View Image
Here's the ceiling where the old double wall used to divide this new vanity area into two separate half-baths - now has a strongback above it - View Image
I've gotta start hanging tomorrow at 6 - finisher coming before lunch and I'm nowhere near ready!
Forrest
Edited 5/11/2007 10:46 pm by McDesign
Forrest,
Looks good. When you 'splay' the verticles, what type of dead wood or blocking do you use?
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
<'splay' the verticles, what type of dead wood or blocking>
I frame the whole shaft with 2x4s 16" OC, plus whatever angled pices I need. R-19 insulation in that.
Got it all hung today; guys got two coats on - quick set before lunch, then regular bucket mud after lunch. They'll finish up Monday. Vanity wall - all this is natural light on a cloudy day - these were caves before!View Image
Closed up the door into the north bedroom; resized other door opening from 2'0 to 2'6.View Image
Closed up old doorway in South bedroom; re-sized other doorway from 2'0 to 2'4; took out some goofy switch locations.View Image
Here you can see where the old dividing wall was between the two half-baths, and one of the skylight shafts. I had to arbitrarily decide to splay it out to the jog in the wall -View Image
Forrest - full of Thai food for an early Mother's Day meal out
Edited 5/12/2007 8:12 pm by McDesign
Started demo on existing master bath this aft, now that the other is well underway - just a warren of little dark rooms - gonna' make it all better
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Forrest
Edited 5/12/2007 8:19 pm by McDesign
Gutted and building on the master bath and closet yesterday - kind of a combination of new and old walls - gotta hold things in place! Bathroom takes a significant chunk and light from the master bedroom - my goal is to make it glow like a lantern. Skylight goes over the shower just through the triangular window over the bed.
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View from down the stairs from the kitchen - should be able to see out the skylight through the fixed glass.View Image
Will have a transom over the bathroom door as well. Not sure how to handle the ceiling in this short hall (closet door is out of sight to the left). I hate acute angles, like the joint between the ceiling and the wall on the left. Maybe a flat here.View Image
Forrest - maybe be ready for mud tomorrow?
Edited 5/16/2007 6:42 pm by McDesign
Got all the framing finished and DW hung against the MB; called my DW guy at 11 AM - he had guys there by 1. Taped with quick-set, skimmed with bucket mud and gone by 5. That's service!
Here you can see the windows of the "lantern" that is the master bathroom.
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Here's looking down the stairs from the kitchen
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This short hall will get a sconce at about the 8' level, I think.
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Bathroom area; vanity will go to the left
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Inside of bathroom, showing "windows" to bedroom and hall
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Shower will go here; skylight tomorrow
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This is above the vanity area; I'll arch the niche or maybe do a little peaked area like the little hall - decide tomorrow!
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Forrest
Edited 5/16/2007 9:05 pm by McDesign
Looks good. Did your finishers show up for the other bathroom. A lot of subs I use do not like small jobs even though I am a repeat customer.
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
<Did your finishers show up for the other bathroom>
Yes - same guys. My friend who has the company always comes through; sending his guys after and between jobs. I'm flexible, and I pay quick! His immediate service is worth a little more to me, and the level of work and attention to detail is super.
Forrest
Looks good. When does the family living there get home?
jt8
"One of the true tests of leadership is the ability to recognize a problem before it becomes an emergency." -- Arnold H. Glasgow
Tomorrow night! I'll have all the doors in and at least the transisitional non-bathroom areas painted; lowest level bathroom and kitchen and laundry back up and running. I'll let them rest through the weekend, and then I'll start on the finish work Monday - painting and tiling and assembly.
Got the shower skylight in this AM; almost finished getting the last tile out here at lunchtime.
Forrest
Okay - more done
Master bath skylight on lower left; makes three
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Really adds light to the bedroom, without even any DW in bath. Just moments ago, I got all this primed. Will paint and hang raw doors tomorrow; ready for client to sleep Friday night.
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Got up cracked up walls and floor in master bath - pretty bad shape. CI tub was darned heavy, and scary to carry out over that rotten floor!
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Forrest
Edited 5/17/2007 8:45 pm by McDesign
You are moving right along. Looks good.
Cast Iron tubs can be hit with a sledge and broken to more managable sized pieces unless someone wants to reuse it.
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
CI tub was darned heavy, and scary to carry out over that rotten floor!
Just hoist it up on your shoulder and carry it out? Super Forrest! :)
As a normal mortal, I had to hoist mine up and get a furniture dolly under it. And slapped down a plywood scrap to roll it out of the BA.
From the shot we have, I don't see anything wrong with it. You just going to reinstall it after the new floor goes in?jt8
"One of the true tests of leadership is the ability to recognize a problem before it becomes an emergency." -- Arnold H. Glasgow
<You just going to reinstall it after the new floor goes in>
Nah - It's pretty scuffed and scarred since 1959. new bathroom gets a jetted 72x42 tub, and a walk-in shower. Next week!
Tub did get me as I leaned it on the tailgate and tipped it into the truck - ragged drain brass gouged my "inner thigh" - couldn't set it down.
Forrest
Hope there wasn't too much bacteria on that drain.
I was truckless when I moved my last one and even though the tub was in real good shape, the drain was on the wrong end for the new layout...and I didn't know anyone who wanted it... So when I rented a truck to do some hauling, I took the tub in with all the scrap. The high point of the WHOLE day was that lift on the rental truck. Just rolled the tub onto the lift and up it went. That alone was worth the $8 extra that the lift cost.jt8
"One of the true tests of leadership is the ability to recognize a problem before it becomes an emergency." -- Arnold H. Glasgow
Here's a couple of good drain goo pix - she said the lav drain was slow! Almost completely blocked.
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Forrest
Edited 5/18/2007 6:10 pm by McDesign
NOT WHILE I AM EATING SUPPER :- (
ANDYSZ2WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
Forrest, maybe you've told us elsewhere, but do you subcontract your plumbing and electrical?
And drywall hang and tape? We know you subbed it for the attic job, but how about a small job like this?
<do you subcontract your plumbing and electrical?>
New permitted work I do; had good success with the same two firms. Redo work I ummmmm - kind of massage it along. Small jobs, I hang DW and supply materials, sub crew tapes and finishes and sands. I'd be more inclined to improve my skills, but Steve can send guys out within 24 hours, usually sooner, so I haven't felt the need.
Forrest
Been working away -
Used to be a door to the left of the corner in this bedroom; the door shown used to be a smaller sliderView Image
Used to be a door to the right of the corner; and that door shown used to be 3' further backView Image
This is looking into the new vanity area made from two half-baths; skylight above and a patented McDesign etched-glass door!View Image
Another view of that skylight - I like to have one wall going up the shaft, in a narrow one like this.View Image
Second skylight is over the tub / toilet area. vent fan up high; airflow crossover tube to first skylight in vanity area. 4" PVC and floor drain grills.View Image
Detail I like when space is tight to the side of the toilet. Just a box-in the thickness of the wall; 3/4" ply sandwiched between DW on either side in the back.View Image
Vanity area; reused the mirror from the old master bath.View Image
Forrest
Edited 5/24/2007 9:16 pm by McDesign
Forrest,
Looks good. I like the recessed TP dispenser.
Who picked the paint colors?
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
The clients' daughter-in-law does some decorating, and chose them. It was nice to paint some color after that big white attic job! I like the way this color (SW "Rainwashed" picks up the green of the etched glass.
Tile (simple variegated beige-ish 13s, not like yours!) goes down today -
Forrest
Do you install the tile on CBU?
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Yes. Tile will be on 1/4" Hardi, latex-modified and RS nailed to 1/2" ply, screwed to 3/4" ply, screwed to sistered 16" OC chewed (!) joists.
I've been following your great Shluter / Kerdi how-to (just read about the orange stuff), and may use it on the other bathroom.
Hmmmmm.
Forrest
Tile grouted Saturday; vanity and baseboard down today; caulk and top coat. All Lowe's stock cabinetry and hardware. Think I'm going to picture frame that naked old mirror with some left-over casing.
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Water on tomorrow; last trim paint and toilet install - Finished; then down to master suite.
Forrest - workin' ALL the days
Edited 5/27/2007 8:48 pm by McDesign
Looking good!
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
you on vacation again, or did your camera break?
:)
jt8
"One of the true tests of leadership is the ability to recognize a problem before it becomes an emergency." -- Arnold H. Glasgow
Ha! Been doing very grimy and un-photogenic replacement of that rotten floor structure under the master bath. Yuck! - the hardest thing so far, working alone, on this job. Had to make some hanging cradles to slide the sistering joists through; above the live water lines, and then jack it all up with my trusty but darned heavy bottle jack
Just finished leveling and new subfloor in thenew master closet this afternoon; picked up insulation and DW moments ago.
I'll get some pix tomorrow.
Forrest - thanks for caring!
Hey Forrest - just caught up on this thread. I really like the skylight treatments. Keep it coming.http://grantlogan.net/
Thanks! here's today -
Master bedroom - need to make the fixed windowsView Image
I moved one large HVAC return into the closet for the whole suite. I find it keeps the closet from getting musty.View Image
Here you can see the new return on the right (behind the level), and the old return under the first tread. That whole understair area was a return plenum for 48 years, and was literally an inch deep in fuzz!View Image
Newly sistered joists under these rooms View Image
Here's a nice view of the rotten old joist under the toilet - I "preserved" itView Image
Old main drain will get redone to accept the new master bath lines. Valves go to newly redone "Jack-and-Jill" upstairs bath. I like to have each bathroom independently shut-off-able. Supply lines shown are just temporary.View Image
Also have to re-jigger the ductwork in this areaView Image
Forrest - insulating and hanging DW now
Edited 6/1/2007 1:04 pm by McDesign
Forrest,Looking good. Will the permanent water supply lines be copper?Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
No - only the ones buried within the house. New stuff is all CPVC.
Remember Vincent Gardenia in Moonstruck, explaining to the yuppies why his plumbing work was so expensive?
"Sir, there are three types of plumbing. There is copper, there is brass, and there is bronze. I only use bronzzzzzze."
Forrest
Another thing. I overstepped, and showed the clients your home tiling thread. She said, "I want that woven-together medallion"
So.
I may have to copy that in front of the throne.
Imitation. It's the sincerest form.
Forrest
Totaly Flattered.
Have at it!
Post pics when you get the proprtions correct. I revised the outer layer as to not have three awkward grout joints at the corners.
Original
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Revised
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Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
More today
Closet is ready to tape and finish. A temporary tool roomView Image
Plumber got the vanity rough-in done. I've been noodling about the ceiling over the vanity alcove, or recess - I hate acute wall-to-ceiling angles. Thought maybe an arch, but no precedent. Thought maybe the shallow 15º gabled ceiling I used in the little hallway, but might be busy. Hmmm.View Image
Wound up with this. From the plane of the main wall, before the 30" deep vanity alcove, I just mirrored the ceiling plane down the same 15º it's going up. Hopefully, it will make the vanity alcove feel "cozy". It's about 10' high.View Image
Forrest
Edited 6/2/2007 9:30 pm by McDesign
CPVC sure is fast...
your hammer arrestors are easier to handle than standpipes, though. Try these (available at Lowe's approx $12)
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Troy
Troy Sprout
"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should also have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." -- George Washington
Edited 6/2/2007 9:38 pm by Hackinatit
I do like those - didn't know anyone local stocked them. I'll do Lowes next time, and won't get waterlogged after a few years.
Forrest
DW all hung yesterday; guys taped and mudded two coats today. Sand tomorrow.
All those doors I took out? I re-used this 50-yr-old fir jamb and casing material -
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and made these fixed windows tonight, that go above the shower for the "lantern" effect into the bedroom -
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Glass tomorrow; also Unique Refinishers comes to spray the upstairs (pink and brown) tub and shower.
Forrest - darn near midnight
Edited 6/4/2007 11:38 pm by McDesign
IIRC, code states that vents must go vertical to a point 6" above the rim of the sink- it looks like in your 6/2 picture that the vanity vent goes horizontal too low???
Yep! Picked up the wrong piece of pipe to lay out the horizontal hole!
Ah, well.
darn good eyes!
Forrest - have to talk to that plumber
Also (and only because I have become a student of plumbing mysteries lately) your guy used a combo wye & 1/8 bend fitting (one piece), which is typically used in drain piping, not in venting.
Better to have run the stack straight up and down through in that adjacent stud bay where the vent goes up, then go over to it with the trap arm, linking into it with a sanitary tee.
But hey, I only know enough to be dangerous!
We are running underslab pipe tomorrow, and here is the sketch I did for it. Our guy says, "You don't need those vents." But he'll do as we say.
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<your guy used a combo wye & 1/8 bend fitting (one piece>
Man, you guys are sharp! Actually, two extra ells got used to snake out the existing roof penetration, and pieces were short at 10 PM - that wye / cap combo was evidently expedient and on-hand.
Also, my experience with running straight up is it always hits the vanity light box brace.
So I hear -
Nice sketch, BTW. I've got to graduate up - my plumbing instructions are just little iso pencil drawings
Forrest
Edited 6/5/2007 7:04 am by McDesign
Light box interference?
Not like this...Troy Sprout
"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should also have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." -- George Washington
Well, okay, but having a wet wall wider than a 2x4 seems to be "unsporting"
Forrest
Mudders finished sanding today, I got the interior windows glassed (yes, it's tempered 1/4") and installed and trimmed and caulked and painted. Had to paint the whole bedroom and ceiling, but that's an add. Got the closet primed. Tomorrow is bathroom and closet painting and doors in and maybe flooring the closet.
Happy with these internal windows. The glass was ordered and waiting, but I didn't even start prepping the old stock prior to making them until after dinner last night
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Forrest
Edited 6/5/2007 10:24 pm by McDesign
Those interior windows look good. You could call it borrowed light.
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Those interior windows look good. You could call it borrowed light.
Just as long as they provide some sound proofing :)
jt8
"One of the true tests of leadership is the ability to recognize a problem before it becomes an emergency." -- Arnold H. Glasgow
Won't all that light pouring in make it hard to sleep? Some folks work nights and like to sleep in.
They're retired and early risers. You're right, it'll be interesting to see how it "lives"
Window beside their bed faces east; skylight is on north exposure - more light in the afternooon.
Forrest
Updates -
Trim on upstairs bath tile where doorframe used to be - synthetic, stiil needs to be primed and painted -View Image
I'm building a casing frame for this re-used mirror tonight - looks naked here -View Image
Walking down from the kitchen to the master suite -View Image
I planned a nice "zen" view of one of the bath pendant lights as you start down the stairs -View Image
New view from MBr -View Image
New master WIC (vanity cab. just stored there) - just ClosetMaid stuff; effective and quickView Image
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MBa door had to open out; not my pref, but it works here.View Image
Toilet in position; tub wall framingView Image
Above the shower - note the exhaust fan is centered between the windows - still needs trim paint - and a tiled shower!View Image
These are the lamp globes from the original upstairs 1/2 baths on new bases - kinda' funky, and i like dimmered lights above a shower skylight - one of my repeated "conceits"View Image
Forrest
Edited 6/11/2007 7:31 pm by McDesign
Moving on! Looks good.
We still have less than 1/2" rain in 2 months. Maybe tonight.
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Looking great Forrest.I am constantly amazed at your ingenuity. Nicely done on the Zen view!
I don't think we got our final pics on this thread. Now you're off messing with smelly carpet...where's our final pics?
jt8
"When I was a young man I vowed never to marry until I found the ideal woman. Well, I found her but, alas, she was waiting for the ideal man." -- Alain
Soon! Still have to build that shower; had to work in the smelly carpet last couple of days. Be back to McBathrooms on Thursday afternoon.
Forrest
Okay - back to this project
Vanity area complete -View Image
Toilet hidden here -View Image
Jetted tub here - will be wrapped in Azek bead-board; tiled around topView Image
I hate big tubs that fill slowly; on the toilet side of the wing wall will be recessed 3/4" ball valves, filling the tub through check valves and then the jet system. Should fill quickly -View Image
Working on the shower now; made a quickie thread on that
Forrest
Edited 6/28/2007 7:49 pm by McDesign
i can only presume that you had a helper lifting that tub with you;)
looks great.
Yep! My "pick-up labor" is my 70 yr-old dad, when I can get him off the golf course - 200+ rounds a year, never a cart, always carries his sticks. About a 7 handicap, but that's just for betting. Real handicap is about 4, but he says it's harder to make money that way!
Forrest - hopin' I've got his genes
All tile in - grout tomorrow.Tub surround gets Azek beadboard.
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Forrest
Edited 7/9/2007 11:40 am by McDesign
Looks good.What is that trim at the top of the shower and above the tub?Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Looks good. Glass between the tub and shower?
jt8
"If you can't sleep, then get up and do something instead of lying there and worrying. It's the worry that gets you, not the loss of sleep." -- Dale Carnegie
Trim above the shower and tub is a 3X8 piece of mosaic tile. Glass door will go above curb. maybe nothing between tub and shower; we're gonna' see how it lives. I voted "no".
Finished up underneath - the plumber and HVAC guy, I mean. Open T is for a sump drainView Image
Have to keep passing by the "new" entry hall on my way to the master bath crawl in this multi-level house. I built it and the entry tower few years ago - still like it. All this downstairs used to be GARAGE! View Image
Forrest
Edited 7/10/2007 8:30 pm by McDesign
Finito! Tools and me are OUT OF THERE! Client returns tomorrow; they only have to get a towel rack suite they like. I want them to take some showers, and see if they want to add more glass between the tub and shower - their call; then I'll brace the door frame.
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Handy to have the tub filler there, I've foundView Image
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Also they need to decide if they want an access door over the recessed tub fill valves (I'll back them and paint everything white), or fabricated knobs poking through. Man, they fill that big 'ol tub in about two minutes!!View Image
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Made a picture frame molding of casing for that mirror in the upstairs bath that looked so naked - it just lifts offView Image
Forrest - it's a GOOD Friday
Edited 7/13/2007 6:06 pm by McDesign
Looks Good!
Have you figured out the supply handles? What is up with the tub spout in the shower?
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Still thinking about tub fill handles. The tub spout in the shower is handy to fill buckets; wash your feet; 'cuz there's no spout in the tub, and the lav's pretty small.
We went back and forth; they decided it couldn't hurt, and the PF box with the spout was only $7 more.
Forrest
Client says they don't need any more spray shielding than the door and filler panel. Noodled about the least obtrusive door frame brace; came up with this. 1-1/2" X 1-1/2" aluminum angle, RO sanded and clear acrylic over that - goes from tub through ceiling. SS fasteners. Neat top mount.View Image
A rafter was pretty much above here. With the wonderful MultiMaster of song and story, I hogged out a slot in it through the finished ceiling, and slid the angle up into it; caulked the L gap.View Image
Forrest
Edited 7/18/2007 1:49 pm by McDesign
This one officially done now?
jt8
"If you can't sleep, then get up and do something instead of lying there and worrying. It's the worry that gets you, not the loss of sleep." -- Dale Carnegie
Yep!
Goin' to Harry Potter with DW - big nite out!
Forrest
My sister and her kids were disgusted with it, but are hopeful about Saturday's release.
jt8
"If you can't sleep, then get up and do something instead of lying there and worrying. It's the worry that gets you, not the loss of sleep." -- Dale Carnegie
Still wondering if this tub fill arrangement was inspected... in addition to the air gap issue, I'm wondering if there's not a scalding danger, as you wouldn't be able to 'move out of the way' of the incoming water.Also, do they never have to add more water after they fill the tub? My DW can be in the tub for 3-4 hours.Our 32x60 whirlpool fills in about 4 minutes w/ standard fill valve (1/2" supplies). The overflow just barely handles it with fill valve fully open.Nice work.Bill
No inspection. No air-gap, just the swing checks in the supply lines. Tub is 42x72 - our identical one takes nearly 10 min to fill with standard controls (also through the jet system).
Pump has a heater to keep the water warm-ish - really just wraps the motor with a cooling jacket.
Scalding could be a concern, though they do keep their HWH on the cool side. Our kids know to just "move to the center of the tub" when all hot is coming in.
Client's sure she won't be adding water; they liked the "handle-less look"
Thanks for the thoughts - anyone else?
Forrest - not a plumber
sure would be an easy tub to clean, no calcium deposits on chrome handles etc. You should try to design an actual pre-fab unit using those ideas...i know you have nothing else to do :)
Job turned out very nice, but I got to tell you....there is some serious light in that bathroom. Or else your camera does a great job with illumination!
Tile turned out pretty sharp!
Thanks. I'm really happy with the amount of light. Old bathroom was where the closet is now; totally internal room. So, the client sees a huge change in "feel". Also more light in the bedroom now from the internal windows.
I think for the pix today I had on the vanity bar only (six 40-watt candelabra base), and the north-facing skylight on an overcast afternoon.
Forrest - trying to figure the next job
Chuck beat me to the tub spout question.
I want them to take some showers, and see if they want to add more glass between the tub and shower - their call
I'm going to vote for more glass between the tub and shower.
I like the way it turned out. You're just toooo far away, otherwise I'd have you do my MBA on my project house.
jt8
"If you can't sleep, then get up and do something instead of lying there and worrying. It's the worry that gets you, not the loss of sleep." -- Dale Carnegie
Edited 7/16/2007 12:06 am by JohnT8
looks great forrest.
my buddy's wife works for Schluter . they have seminar conventions on various product instalations etc.. hotel, food and drink are covered by them. all you need to do is get there. look into their Kerdi water proofing membrane, great stuff.
might be helpful.i hope to be there this year.
keep up the good work and good pics.
arne
Edited 5/27/2007 9:42 pm ET by arnemckinley
I'll provide a report in the next week or so when I start on my PEX project if you'd like. Seems pretty easy and straightforward.
Well?jt8
"One of the true tests of leadership is the ability to recognize a problem before it becomes an emergency." -- Arnold H. Glasgow
Forrest,
I have seen that movie. It is a good flick.
I agree about what can be done inside one's home, but as a contractor, if the inspecting juristicton approves my work I am released from liability for a MEPS failure.
Chuck S
live, work, build, ...better with wood
Ah yes, Robert Tuttle was the most noble sort of HVAC man. . .On another note, I thought I'd pass along a tip from a plumber that worked on some jobs I was on- he always cut cast iron drain pipe with a diamond blade in a 4 1/2" grinder. He said that the cast iron was brittle enough (like masonry) to cut well with it. He would only bring out the chain cutter on bigger jobs.zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
< cast iron drain pipe with a diamond blade in a 4 1/2" grinder>
Interesting! have to try that with my new two-for-one Depot Bosch special
Thanks -
Forrest
Then I got busy after lunch and screwed and glued new T&G decking down. This gets another layer of 3/8" CDX, then 1/2" DuraRock and tile.
OK, that might explain it, but I was starting to think you were going to put the throne on a pedistal.
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jt8
"One of the true tests of leadership is the ability to recognize a problem before it becomes an emergency." -- Arnold H. Glasgow
My 2cts worth of opinion:
Too many doors in a confined area. After using the toilet you have to open a door to get to the washbasins. If you open the toilet door and someone opens the hall/bath door chances are someone will run smack into the door. When you get out of the tub there is hardly any room to drytowel yourself. You are trapped between the toilet and the wall/door. Some unused space beside the vanity.
My suggestion:
Move the toilet to the left side of the vanity. Install a pocket door between the hallway and the bath with the pocketdoor down to where you have the dividing wall between the vanity area and the tubspace. Remove that wall alltogether and have a curtain if you need that kind of privacy in the bathroom itself
Forrest
I have removed mirrors intact off of doors by cutting real long thin shims and driving them in progression.
These mirrors had black mastic globs every six inches.
I have to remove a large vanity mirror this week and have very little space to get behind so I will be experimenting alternative methods.
Does the piano wire method scratch up the reflectice coating on back?
ANDYSZ2WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
I took a 4x6' mirror out today without breaking it.
Used the shim method with 2 glass suction cup handles.
worked real well.
ANDYSZ2WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST