Mechanical drain cleaner, hand crank??
Hudson Valley Carpenter
| Posted in General Discussion on
In my continuing sink drain saga, the other bathroom’s drain backed up an hour ago. I pulled the very old trap off and found zero obstructions so the problem is down the line, in the wall.
Considering the age of the trap and the very hard water in SoCal, there’s bound to be a mineral build up somewhere nearby.
What type/brand/model of mechanical drain cleaner can you recommend? Hand crank, OK?
Replies
Get a "self-storing drain auger" in the smaller (sink vs main drain) size. There are styles you chuck in a drill, but I suspect the hand-cranked model is easier to control.
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You think that tool will clean mineral deposits out of an inch and a half galvanized pipe?
I had one of those for years. I was good for softer drain clogs. Loaned it to a neighbor..neighbor moved. You know the routine.
Edited 10/14/2009 9:56 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
Nothing will clean mineral deposits out of an inch and a half galv pipe. But it'll knock them down a bit (if they're there), and I question whether mineral deposits alone are the problem.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
The current back-up problem is probably something less difficult than mineral but I couldn't get it to budge using a plunger in the sink so I'm guessing that the mineral build up is pretty serious.
I've seen that condition in every sink drain in this house so there's no question whether or not it's part of the problem this time.
Edited 10/14/2009 10:01 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
Plungers rarely work for sink drains. And only so-so for toilets.With bathroom sinks plungers are rendered useless by the overflow drain and stopper lever opening.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
With bathroom sinks plungers are rendered useless by the overflow drain and stopper lever opening.
I plugged up the overflow and got pretty strong plunger action. I should've been enough to push most soft stuff through.
Modern, larger volume plungers do a pretty good job on toilets. I've also had success using one on an ABS shower drain, which was most likely clogged by hair.
Most of the drain problems I see in this house are in the wifes sink. Hair, soap gunk and other stuff builds the obstruction in the beginning, b/4 the trap. I've found clean traps and slow flow. Have you given the baking soda/white vinegar volcano a try?A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Have you given the baking soda/white vinegar volcano a try?
Nope Cal. The only chemical thing that may work on mineral build up is something PH negative...with sulfuric acid, and I'm not putting that stuff in the old plumbing here.
This is the kind of problem that is probably best answered through local knowledge. I'm going to ask the guys at the plumbing suppy what they've heard about it. Maybe I'll rent a power rooter for a half day and do all the drains. Depends on what they advise.
Edited 10/15/2009 10:24 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter
If you rent a power rooter, take care. I think you''re responsible for any damage to it. Don't try to force it if you hit a really hard obstruction.Had the same problem with a rental house. Licensed plumber took his power rooter to it & ended up breaking about 10 ft of the snake off. He was not a happy camper.
I don't think it'll come down to renting one but thanks for the good advice. I expect that local knowledge will provide the best answer. I'll let ya'll know what I learn by the end of the day.
One of these products could help lossen thing up a little.
http://www.herchem.com/products/drainwaste.html
You plumbing supply house should have something similar.
I use power auger drain cleaners all the time. Hand ones are fine if you are going to repeat the cleaning on a regular schedule, but for the best action the small 3/8" cable on a drill driven cleaner is far superior to the hand cranked ones. Rigid makes a self contained one that ddoes a decent job.
I have a Rigid that will let me attach a drill and has a hand crank. Best of all, it has some bearings attached to a handle on the front that help feed it in and out of the drain, so you don't need to stop to push it down or pull it out.
Dave, I used sulfuric acid repeatedly on a mineral build up in an old bathtub's trap, same house. It didn't have any effect. The trap was very difficult to replace, I might add.
Perhaps one of the products you linked would be better but I'm going to try something mechanical first.
Thanks for the advice about the drill driven Ridgid drain cleaner. That's exactly what I wanted to know.
We have 28 restrooms in the facility where I work. Somewhere around 10 break areas with sinks and 12 ice machines.
If there is a way to break it or stop it up, these people will find a way to do it. We have 4 different sizes and types of power drain cleaners plus water jets and air rams, not to mention the old standby plungers. There is seldom a week that goes by that we don't have to use one of our arsenal tools to unstop something. We have also run the gamment of chemical fixes but you have to be real carefull with some of that stuff. Some doesn't like porcelin, some doesn't like CI, and some is just so nasty that the smell alone will send people runnig home. Except for bleach we rely on mechanical measures most of the time. Pizz balls build up in urinals is about the only thing that we use Sizzle on because it is about the only product we have found that will dissolve that type of mineral deposit.
Thanks Dave,
I agree about sulfuric acid. The fumes are dangerous to inhale and it will eat porcelain if left in contact with it.
The galvy plumbing in this house, particularly the drain pipe that I'm trying to open, is very old and partially corroded. For that reason I'm concerned about what might happen if I pour sulfuric acid down the drain. Seems a lot smarter to try to open it up mechanically.
The problem with old galv. pipe is when you get it clean there usually isn't any wall of the pipe left, then you get to repair the leaks. Have you ever thought about replacing the pipe?
"If all else fails, read the directions"
Here's one more to add to your arsenal. House we are renting temporarily has a sink drain that plugs about once per year. I have tried all kinds of chemicals and augers. None seem to do any good and I suspect a "T" in the line in a wall intersection that stops the augers.
Any way I have been successful by going to the roof and caping the vent with duct tape then using an 8 hp wet vac on the drain to suck it out.
Yep, used that one on CI roof drains. even made up extra hose and pusher pipe to send as muc hose down the line as possible on old 3" CI.
Wet vacs are also great on commercial grease traps. You just have to use a seperator buicket between the pickup side and the vacumn. Other wise the vac only has one job in the future and it has to live outside :)
Over the years I've used several different kinds. The 15' hand cranked model works OK--sometimes. Most recently bought the 25 foot $12(?) plastic coated auger from HD or Lowe's. Powered by your drill. Much better than hand cranked. I think it's helpful to have the snake stretched out straight, and powered by someone else while I feed the line in. Only thing I don't like about this model is the plastic end that fits in the drill. When it did break--which you knew it would--the store gladly replaced it, though. When this tool won't do the job, I rent a 'real' auger.
I really like the power snakes. It's like the difference between drilling a hole with a hand cranked drill and a power drill.
They don't have to be big. I used a small power snake that used a drill.
I helps to have two people if you use a drill. Someone has to hold the drill and the other person feeds the snake.
I figured out how to use it myself by setting the drill and snake in a plastic tub.
The tub held the whole thing off the bathtub, vanity, or kitchen cabinet so I could squeeze the trigger with one hand and feed the snake with the other.
It was still a balancing act.
The power snakes are really much better for opening up drains.
You can use your cordless drill.
"There are three kinds of men: The one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."Will Rogers
Edited 10/15/2009 7:42 pm by popawheelie
I tried one of the Ridgid auto-feeding snakes with a cordless drill attached, a few years ago. The snake has a trigger on the drum handle which causes the snake to push out of the drum.
So you hold the drum's handle in one hand, with your finger on the trigger, and the drill in the other hand. It still takes some coordination but it'll do the job OK with one person.
The one I used wasn't auto feed. It's a nice feature. If it is a lot higher cost you could forego it though. The main upgrade for me is the power feature.
With difficult pipes there can be considerable back and forth with the snake in order for it to pass certain areas.
Most all my experience was with the one snake at an apartment building so the pipes might have been more difficult than most.
I worked at an old school that had crystal build up in the urinals.
A snake wouldn't touch them. Too hard. I had to use acid.
The boys never flushed so it built up pretty fast.
"There are three kinds of men: The one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."Will Rogers
Edited 10/15/2009 9:02 pm by popawheelie
Just to let you know that I followed your suggestion and bought a drill powered drum auger. It was very simple to set up and use. My cordless 14V drill was nearby so that's what did the job...with relative ease. As you said, much preferable to the hand crank type.
Larry and Joe's plumbing supply doesn't sell drum augers of any kind so I went to HD and found one there. It's a 1/4"X20' "Snake-It" by Brasscraft. $21.98+tax.
In some things power is good. ; ^ )
My neighbor ( nice young couple, first house) has a cottonwood next door that put alot of leaves in his yard.
I stopped and told him to mow them with his mower first and then bag them with the mower.
So he bring out his push mower!
I loaned him my POWER mower.
It's funny. He won't buy a gas mower because it isn't green.
But they are thinking of buying a Pruise.
They have a car that is fine. So being green is to buy a really complicated exspensive car that they don't need. huh!"There are three kinds of men: The one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."Will Rogers
So being green is to buy a really complicated exspensive car that they don't need. huh!
Some people forget all about common sense, as well as dollars and sense, when they get involved in one aspect of being green.
A friend who owns a bicycle shop in L.A. is committed to commuting by bicycle, even though there's no safe route for bikes between his home and his shop. During the winter months he rides home at night, during high traffic time, taking the right lane.
He's been hit once so far but makes light of it...because to say otherwise would mess with his commitment to being green.
On the other hand, when I've talked with him about proper insulation for his shop, a move which would reduce the cost of heating and cooling the place by at least one half, he can't see it, even though the insulation job would be repaid in less than two years from the energy savings.
The amount of gas he saves by riding a bike is much less than could be saved by proper insulation.
Conclusion: Such people want to be green in ways that show but have little real concern for the environment.
Edited 10/29/2009 1:47 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
I'd like to think that I'm genuinely concerned for what is best long term.
But i might be doing things that are constructed so I look good.
It's hard to know sometimes. We ( people) can be pretty tricky when it's in our best interest."There are three kinds of men: The one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."Will Rogers
I agree. The mind/ego is certainly able to supply lots of self serving reasons, when the desirable path is more attractive than one which leads to higher goals.
We're all subject to that kind of thinking but many of us see something worthwhile in resisting self serving motives in favor of actions which unify us with all and everything.
As a carpenter, I'm a tree hugger by nature (maybe I'm really a tree lover who has become a carpenter). At times that sensitivity brings me close to all of it, lifting my spirit and mind well beyond the realm of the ego.
That's something that we older carpenters ought to teach, along with our skills, how recognizing our equality and unity with natural things makes it possible to rise above the common place.
I used to rent a power rodder for drain clogs, effective, can be really filthy messy, and not necesarily easy to accomplish.
Now I rent a Water Ram, which uses a blast of compressed air to force the standing water thru the clog. Really easy, takes longer to drive to the rental store than it does to perform the act.
There is a possible risk of this device bursting a pipe, but if you stay within the suggested pressures the pipe would have to be on its last legs to burst, at least in my experience.
Good luck.
Had a guy in our shop that pumped up one of those rams to clear a stubborn clog in a toilet. Got her up to about 120 psi, seated the plug, and pulled the trigger.
Ahhh, no more clog. He was real proud of himself untill someone reported a mess in the womens restroom right behind the mens room he had worked in.
Back to back wall hung toilets there.
Yep, he cleared the clog alright.
Shot it all out of the toilet behind the one he was working on and up to the ceiling.
Lucky there was knowone in the womens room when he pulled the trigger. Could have been a realbutt buster with someone on that throne :)
I've seen neighbors use something similar to what was picture posted by DANH, I've borrowed and use the same from my neighbor, my dad had one he used often and in all the above cases...AT NO TIME DID THAT HAND CRANK SNAKE WORK IN THE WAY IT WAS DESIGNED!
Point being, don't waste your time, effort and money buying and using a hand crank snake. If you're serious about doing it yourself, run down to Home Depot tool rental and get yourself a 50 foot powered snake and do all the drains and your main sewer lateral for the price of a two hour rental.
Besides, once you do find out that the hand crank snake doesn't work, it's going to hang around unused inside your tool storage area for years before you finally decide to toss it out.
Don't come back later cause "I told ya so!"
I've used the hand crank snake at least a dozen times. Works fine for me. (Though the reports re the drill-powered units are making me think I should try one of those.)
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz