Replies

1. 
   DanH | Nov 30, 2008 05:20pm | #1

   In all these decades (maybe a century) of the use of melamine as an industrial chemical, it's never been on the radar as a potential problem until the Chinese dog food incident a few years back. All of the problems since then have been due to intentional introduction of the chemical into the food chain to fake out tests for protein content. I have to believe it's reasonably safe when used for the intended purposes. It's acute toxicity is on par with table salt; the hazard is chronic ingestion.

   Melamine is used as the binder in some forms of OSB and related materials. I believe that a child would have to ingest a substantial amount of the material to create a hazard, though. Consider that the children in China were ingesting concentrations of probably 0.5-5.0% in their formula, over periods of weeks or months. I would think that simply varnishing any exposed surfaces of OSB would be sufficient to prevent friability (and therefore ingestion of loose pieces). And obviously, don't allow the child to chew on the edges of the material, and exercise reasonable housekeeping measures when working with the material.

   There is no vapor hazard to speak of.

   The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
1. 
   KFC | Nov 30, 2008 07:30pm | #8

   just throwing it out there.  i'm aware of the urea formaldehyde off-gassing issue, but don't know which all products have melamine as an integral component.

   My wife wants to buy a kitchen play set thing for my daughter that is made of MDF, and I believe is surfaced with a melamine laminate.  I imagine she'll be play cutting real food on it, etc. etc.

   I know it's a small thing to worry about, maybe that's why I worry about it- the big worries make me too freaked out.  Got kids?

   k

1. 
   popawheelie | Nov 30, 2008 07:40pm | #9

   I have two teenage daughters. Melamine is waaaayyyy down on the scale of thing to be concerned over.

   Their attitude about life is what I'm concerned about. And all the infuences outside of my control.

1. 
   KFC | Nov 30, 2008 09:09pm | #11

   lol.

   two teenage daughters.

   puts it in perspective, don't it.

   mine's 18 mos., and she's already giving me the business...

   k

1. 
   popawheelie | Dec 01, 2008 12:15am | #17

   Having just celebrated thanksgiving with Christmas around the corner the attitude issue came up a couple of times.

   We have soooo much but it never seems to be enough.

   You'd think the name Thanksgiving would be a reminder of what we should be thankful for. Not what "things" we think we need.

2. 
   KFC | Dec 01, 2008 12:21am | #18

   I know.  she's usually more interested in the cardboard box than the plastic carp inside anyway.  maybe I'm over romaticizing my childhood, but it seems like we had more fun with an old paper towel tube and some string or whatnot... 

   wow.  i'm officially an old fart now.

   k

2. 
   Dam_inspector | Nov 30, 2008 09:51pm | #12

   I eat off melamine plates. Hasn't affected me yet. affected me yet affected me yetaffected me yet

1. 
   KFC | Nov 30, 2008 10:26pm | #15

   'I eat off melamine plates. Hasn't affected me yet. affected me yet affected me yetaffected me yet'

   hee hee.

   I know what you're getting at, though.  none of these things will kill you (fast enough to know which one it was, anyway).  and basically, i'm fine, despite all the things i've exposed myself to (intentionally and unintentionally).  still, how would i know if i might feel better by eliminating substance x, y or z?

   we all know people who have vague diagnoses like epstein-barr or fibromyalgia, where the cause and even nature of the ailment are basically unknown.  and while a lot of these folks are neurotic kooks, enough of them aren't to make me wonder.

   k

   i'm also just trying to gather facts about where melamine is used in building or manufacturing products, b/c now i'm curious...

   Edited 11/30/2008 2:30 pm ET by KFC

3. 
   DanH | Nov 30, 2008 09:52pm | #13

   A child would have to eat fairly substantial amounts (probably pounds) of the MDF or melamine laminate to be in any danger from melamine poisoning. The melamine in the laminate and MDF will generally pass through the digestive system without even dissolving to any great degree, and someone must be exposed to large amounts of the stuff over months to develop problems from it.On the scale of worries for parents I'd put it just above the worry that your children may be attacked by velocoraptors.(Two sons, who managed to grow up OK in spite of our parenting.)
   The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel

1. 
   KFC | Nov 30, 2008 10:03pm | #14

   just for sake of argument, the FDA has set the "safe" level at one part per million, apparently by finding the concentration level in american baby formula and setting the limit slightly above it.  until the FDA found out there was a little less than one part per million in formula, they refused to set a "safe" concentration.

   there is no firm explanation as to how it is getting into american formula, but contamination from cardboard, plastic, particleboard etc. during the manufacturing process is being offered as one possibility.

   still nowhere near as scary as two teenage daughters, tho.

   k

1. 
   Adrian | Nov 30, 2008 10:35pm | #16

   The melamine formaldehyde coating used on particle board and MDF is fully cured, and there is no danger from contact or anything else in the sheet goods you use.

   Re: offgassing.....there are still formaldhyde based glues in some particle boards etc. (one is no-formaldehyde, and some are moving to soy glues etc), but pretty much everything made in North America now is low-formaldehyde. The manufacturers have had to deal with the health concerns not only of final consumers, but also people who work in manufacturing facilities, warehouses along the supply chain etc. The off-gassing curve for the formaldehyde is pretty steep, and it's usually at least 30 days from manufacture before it gets even into the shops to be fabricated....it's almost all gone at that point. It's along way from where we were when I came into the trade....the air reeked after a day cutting up sheetgoods.

   A friend brought an air quality tech into his commercial cabinetry shop, to make sure his guys were safe.....they set the sniffer to something like 1/10 of the Canadian safe exposure level.....which itself has a very large safety margin built into it. They didn't do anything special, just did their thing with sheets that were in their racks....and that stuff wasn't zero-formaldhyde. They didn't get a reading all day....the material was basically low low low formaldehyde. Points out one of the many problems with LEED when it comes to wood....local architects are speccing zero-formaldehyde products, which have to come from the West coast, when they could be speccing low-formaldehyde, which is produced locally and also uses recycled material.

   At this point, personally, I have no health concerns about the melamine coatings, and I'm pretty confident in North American produced sheet goods....if you want that extra degree of security, have all the exposed edges edgebanded or sealed with finish. For tradespeople, the dust is a much greater hazard than the chemicals.

    Cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.

2. 
   PeterJ | Nov 30, 2008 05:23pm | #2

   I know melamine as a thermoset coating, usually on particle board. Any chance you're meaning formaldehyde?

   After writing the above, I did a little Googling and discovered that melamine can also refer to a chemical, learn something every day.

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melamine

   I'm no expert, but unless you're machining and making dust, I don't think there's a health concern in raw mdf. Most composite sheet goods do off-gas however, is that your concern? 

    

   Everything will be okay in the end.  If it's not okay, it's not the end. 

1. 
   DanH | Nov 30, 2008 05:33pm | #3

   Melamine is mixed with formaldehyde to make the resin for some brands of USB. The formaldehyde can off-gas, but the melamine, I believe, remains largely solid.
   The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel

1. 
   IMERC | Nov 30, 2008 05:38pm | #4

   USB???? 

   Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->

   WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!

1. 
   DanH | Nov 30, 2008 05:54pm | #5

   OSB. Too many TLAs flying about these days.
   The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel

1. 
   IMERC | Nov 30, 2008 05:58pm | #6

   TLAs????? 

   Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->

   WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!

2. 
   DanH | Nov 30, 2008 06:26pm | #7

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-letter_abbreviation
   The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel

3. 
   JimB | Nov 30, 2008 08:11pm | #10

   Melamine itself seems to be very low toxicity.  Melamine is combined with formaldehyde to create the plastic  used in building materials. 

   The melamine compound causing problems in milk is melamine cyanurate, which is created by adding melamine to cyanuric acid. 

   Saying "melamine is dangerous" or "melamine is safe" are both incomplete statements, because it depends on the specific chemical (as well as the route of exposure, dose, etc.).