I’m thinking of implementing an idea I had the other day and I wanted to gather some thoughts from some of you folks on this.
I maintain that the most important skill a contractor must develop is mastering the flow of information. To this end I like to document as much information as reasonably possible, as efficiently as I can. I often like to document information I am giving customers with a carbon copied hand written memo, a trick I learned from one of my mentors. A few examples would be, request for selections by customers, verifications, etc. I either enclose them with invoices or leave them in a designated spot. It eliminates a lot of that “you never told us that” type stuff.
The other side of the coin is when the customer maintains that they provided a piece of information but they either didn’t or there is a dispute about what they told you.
I am generally referring to the many minor items, that could not possibly be specified in the contract, or minor changes, etc.
I am thinking of providing a memo pad like I use to the customers so that they can have documentation of what they told me, an I in turn will have a written record of their request.
It seems that I am more organized than many of my customers, and I am running into my fair share of selective amnesia lately.
I really think this could be a great way to communicate information, and I could even stipulate in my contracts that all selections, requests, etc. will only be honored in written form. Additionally, it would free up a lot of my evening phone time, and ease multiple discussions of the same information.
Is this corny? Would customers find fault in this? I like talking to my customers and all but I think I have a need a better system. Its not that customers are trying to be dishonest or anything but alot of times when they screw up they tend to try to pin the blame on someone else where money is involved.
Tom
Replies
Ever hear of a work change order?
No, I think Tom's on to something.
There is a huge amount of details discussed in the usual blather, B.S. and conversations we have with a customer. What Tom is talking about is documenting these little ideas, little changes that always end up being big deals.
I really like the idea of the carbon copies. The real trick would be to figure a casual way to get them to scribble a signature on each copy.
>> ... casual way to get them to scribble a signature on each copy.
Not starting the work till they sign seems fairly casual to me.
Tom,
One of the best carpenters I've ever worked with has kept, for as long as I can remember, a black daily planner type notebook with him every minute of every day.
Anytime an architect, homeowner or whomever is writing the checks starts talking to him, out it comes.It has become his trademark, and all his friends joke about it, but believe me, he knows what's going on and everyone else knows he does too.
In it he records when he told which sub what and the time as well as the date.And he records it in his painfully miniscule flawless printing at a slow pace. Like Jerry says, when the book comes out, the #### stops. It forces everyone to be brief and specific. It is also a legal document and would carry great weight in court if necessary. On very important matters, he reads his entries back to the person.
It is such a good idea, I even tried it. But I kept losing mine or spilling coffee, glue you name it all over it. I lose everything anyway, so being organized for me is totally dependent upon weight and containment. I even built a trailer and bolted down my tools in it, and most of them weight hundreds of pounds. It was a waste of time and black books for me, and I knew it before I even started.
But it might work for you.
Clampman
For crying out loud,
I'm even getting edited in here now. Allright, who's doing it.
Welcome to Prospero's automated censorship program. The very latest thing in Artificial Intelligence.
more like artificial stupidity!
Or genuine stupidity!
TDo not try this at home!
I am a trained professional!
I guess I need to figure out the smilie that indicates "This is sarcasm."
A change order is a simple form. You write the change and date it. Doh.
Record keeping. It only has to be as official as you want it to be, what am I missing here?
What you are missing is items that don't require a change order, doh!
Either you don't do this for a living, or you write a hundred change orders a week. What, do you right a change order for every request that does not have a cost impact?
Free you mind, your #### will follow.Tom
Tommy,
I know EXACTLY what you r talking about. I think that there are alot of folks here that have vastly different ramificatons in their own projects. (What it takes to build house 'A' in my company, isn't what it takes someone else in their house 'A' or 'B')
I think that you are on to something. As someone mentioned earllier, we do a 'Black day planner' which is a legal daily log, but having some thing that is also written and 'copied' for the homeowner on the spot would be an idea to explore.
Let us know how it goes....
Tommy B,
Great Topic, I'm a Framing contractor in New Jersey, and I started this conversation with the GC that we did a 6000 sf addition for. It had 14 dormers, curved rafters, 14' diameter stairwell, 4 different ht floors...... the list goes on.
The homeowner new more about construction then alot of contractors that I know. The only problem with HER was she would forget where she told you where she wanted to put the window. We all know that the centers of windows are on the plans and I as a framer can just say I followed the plans, but I don't work that way nor would I ever work that way.
If the headers were in and she didn't like where the location was then thats a different story. But we do all custom additions and everybody has to work with eachother.
Ex: Joe, can you put the window 5' to the center from the inside of the wall instead of 4' from the outside like the plan says because I have a piece of furniture thats 4' wide.
Not a problem because the walls aren't up yet. But then 4 days later she says why is the window over here?
I said because thats what we discussed the other day, and then she said I don't remember saying 5'
Than she asked me as I was getting ready to fram the gable wall if I could raise the window 1' higher then what plan said, I wrote every thing she said down, she signed it. We laughed but there was no problem.
I was there the day the HV/AC guys started, I could here them discussing where the location of the vents were going, I was cracking up, I just pictured 100 vent whole cut in all the plywood and her telling them I never said I wanted that vent there. So I said to them take a saw the second she gives you a location cut it right then.
Thats just one example, she told the stone mason that she wanted the stone to go all the way up to the liners of the door rough openings because the windows and doors had no brick molding, they were going to be set into the framing.
A week later I here two people screaming at eachother and it's here and the stone mason, she said I never said that he said yes you F....king did.
I told the GC look there is so many different things going on with a 6000 sf addition from now on every time we have our meetings with her we're going to write it down, Date it, and have her sign it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that at all you don't need no change orders for that because nothing was biult yet.
What are you going to do, while your laying out shoes and plates write a change order because the owner asked you to put the window 6" to the left [NO]
If you write that down 6" to the left, the date, her signature, 2 days later theres no problem, If she don't like it now theres a Change Order.
It's just simple communication, I tell the GC that I want to meet the Plumber/Mason/HVAC/Roofer.
I have to put Plumbng boxes in I'm not a Plumber but I need to know alot about it I have to lay my framing out most importantly for him. If theres a problem we'll have a meeting it's as simple as that.
Tommy B, Like I said above great topic there should be more professionals like you who are thinking that way. Anybody who has something Stupid to say to you isn't Professional, hasn't got a clue and not even worth responding to.
Joe Carola.
Hey, guys, I 'm not a professional builder but some years ago I did work for a 24 hour resturant and we kept EVERYTHING in a 3 ring notebook. Each day had a two sided sheet with specific things to fill out. It was invaluable because we had a Gen. Mgr. 2 or 3 Assist. mgrs, 4 crew chiefs, a District Mgr. and a Corporate office to communicate with and we had to be able to produce what we did on any certain day. "Write it in the book!" was one of our everyday phrases. It was invaluable keeping the communication flowing and documented. An adaptation of that may be useful for you. It certainly ends a lot of questions--if you are disciplined to get it written down.
Good luck!
Joe, I appreciate the kind words. You hit the nail on the head with your examples. I have many that are similar.
This is about streamlining the building process to the benefit of builders and homeowners alike.
If you are the forgetful contractor, this may not be your cup of tea.
Keep in touch Joe. I have spent many years coming up through the trades as sub and an employee. I am all about making building and construction profitable and rewarding for everyone involved.Tom
Framer,
Great post. I think you have effectively stopped this thread in its tracts. There is just nowhere else to go with it.
Cheers
dl
Clampman, great post. Too funny. You've taken to heart the immortal advice of Mr. Descartes: "know thyself". I think "weight and containment" are excellent organizational strategies!_____________________________HomeBase________ Kitchen & Bath Builders, LLC
Brian Roberts, Manager
I really like your idea of the "carbon copied hand written memo". Sounds like a great way to reduce communication problems.
One thing I've taken to doing that seems to work fairly well. You know how Columbo used to pause as he was leaving, and say: "Just one more thing" ?
I do the same thing (More or less) as someone is getting up to leave a meeting. I stop them and say: "I just want to make sure we both have the details straight" and then summarize what we talked about/expect of each other. It eliminates a lot of the "I thought you were gonna do this" type stuff.
We are born naked, wet and hungry. Then things get worse.
Personally, I think it's a great idea, and I wouldn't have any problem asking any clients to initial or sign anything so we're all are sure they get exactly what they want...that's why I get the jobs I do...and it's a great addition to "we aim to please" and keeping everybody on the same page. I'm looking for carbonless copies tomorrow...
what some of you guys might need is a "daily job report". Some jobs need 'em, some don't.no turn left unstoned
Thanks for the input all.
I expected a little poo-pooing on this, but I'm not talking about change orders or job reports. As someone aptly put it, I'm talking about jobsite "blather". I've already pretty much decided to implement it but I was looking for input.
There are a lot of things a five dollar book of memos will do, and if the customer is not savvy enough to provide it, I will. I'll eventually, get them printed and customized to my business. Plus, I thought others might benefit from the discussion.
I have an excellent rapport with my customers and am very detail oriented. It's just that when there not, it leaves them an out, and can create a sticky situation. I like the idea of it becoming a trademark, as well as a sales tool at the precontract meetings.
Tom