Metal Connectors? Here to stay or passing fad?
madmadscientist
| Posted in General Discussion on
Hello All, I was recently in a local ‘real’ lumber yard (Ashby Lumber in Berkeley CA) which has just about the biggest selection of Simpson hardware I’ve seen. Aisle’s and Aisle’s of the stuff. It got me to wondering, How big was this section 10, 20 years ago? How big will it be in another 10yrs? So, are metal connectors, THE future for stickframe building? Where we live in earthquake country it seems like every year they write more of them into the code. Same thing in hurricane and tornado land I bet. What about other areas of the world that do not have extreme conditions such as above? Are metal connectors a passing fad or are they here to stay? What think y’all?
Replies
Nothing but a fad. And pretty soon folk will get over their infatuation with those pointy metal things and go back to using pegs.
And when they quit using those 'pointy things", drywall will be impossible to put up, so we'll go back to wattle and daub?
:)
Ha Dan very funny,
So by your reply I take it that metal connectors are here to stay for the long haul.
I've never seen another manufacturer beside Simpson I wonder why that is? Though I havent looked real hard though Simpson seems to have the market sown up?
shaking gravity bad all around construction joinery lawyers thier here to stay
Well in 20 years I have to ask if there will still be stick building (at least for new construction)
Well actually knowing the building industry like I do and how resistant to change it is I am sure there will still be plenty of carpenters who will still claim stick built is better but I can only hope our industry finally wakes up to the 21st century.
There are so many new methods of building SIPs, modular construction, metal framing and more that I feel metal connectors are the least of the new methods of framing yet to come.
In fact 2x wood framing itself needs to be rethought it is simply not the best use of forrest products to use solid dimensional lumber for building shelters. When there are so many new ways to build a much stronger more energy efficient building shell then stick framing with dimensional lumber.
Alternatives already exist today never mind what we can develop in the next 20 years if we are only open our minds to new ideas.
That's a good point you bring
That's a good point you bring up. How long will it take for residential construction to move away from stick framing to 'something better'?
They're not only here to
They're not only here to stay, I figure there will be more and more of them.
BTW - There is already something better 'n stick framing.
Trusses.
(-:
Metal connectors are here to stay, and will probably become more commonly required by code as time goes on.
If you ever have the time or inclination to follow code-change proposals and hearings, you will see that majority of proposals dealing with new requirements for metal connectors are by Simpson people.
They have the money and incentive to pay engineers to design studies and tests that will support the findings that--surprise!--prove how necessary their connectors are.
The code people who vote on whether to accept the proposals are sometimes overwhelmed by the technical info presented, and base their vote on more of a desire to "err on the side of safety", than to go to the trouble of insisting on more/other evidence. But nobody else has spent the money for tests or studies that would challenge Simpson's claims.
follow the money
Would assume that simpson and irc folks have bought more than a few dinners and christmas presents for code officials
Wow it does seem like a racket a bit.
That simpson themselves can lobby directly for their products to be used...I'm sure no one would say that a house would be 'less safe' with their products installed correctly.
I wonder what the barriers to entry into this buisiness are. Why hasn't someone else come along to compete with Simpson. Seems like someone else could ride Simpsons coat tails if they do all the lobbying work you just product a look alike product.
The codes can't specify that the metal connector product be Simpson can they?
From Madmadscientist -
I wonder what the barriers to entry into this buisiness are.
Three things come to mind.
First - Simpson designs are good. Things like their double shear nailing mean they need fewer fasteners in their hangers than their competitors.
Second - The high cost of product development. You wouldn't believe the hurdles you have to jump through to get a new product tested and code approved so it can go to market. Look at the hundreds of products that Simpson has available, and imagine spending sevreal years trying to bring all that stuff to market.
Third - Deep pockets. One of our truss plate suppliers got into the hanger business for a while, and had some decent designs. But Simpson made them an offer they couldn't refuse, and they sold out.
One of my gripes with the double shear is there is little or nothing holding the joist from pulling away from the header. That little toenail just grazes the joist. Also gun happy folks with short nails do not get what they think they are getting. I have a feeling most folks do not read the Simpson specs on nail requirements.
USP is a competitor especially on the heavy duty stuff, hold downs, glulam saddles, etc. Golden State Lumber carries them in your area as well as a lot of construction supply companies. Pricing is much better.
Simpson has a lot of the market because they are carried exclusively at lot of places like HD, Ashby Lumber etc. Sort of a generic name.
When I started they had a little building in San Leandro. I think they also did panel roofs, like Safeway, as they always had a lot of plywood and lumber there. Now of course it's a giant complex.
John
I remember reading through a Fine Homebuilding issue from the early to mid 90s. There was a photo of someone installing plywood subfloor to some floor joists. Under the photo, the caption said that "white glue" was specified. I was thinking, who the heck specified Elmer's for the subfloor?