Replies

1. 
   McPlumb | Jul 09, 2009 01:02pm | #1

   If exposed fasteners means screws with rubber type washers.

   It is sometimes called channel drain.

   It' a good product, the new house I started pluming Monday has it for a roof.

   I believe it also qualifies for an energy tax credit currently because it's can be recycled. So there may not be much cost difference.

2. 
   Piffin | Jul 09, 2009 01:46pm | #2

   Price you quote is for the basic material only.
   Shingles adds about $3/sq for nails. the metal adds ten bucks a sq for screws
   flashings can vary.

   Is the price for the longer warrantee for a warrantee only or is it for a better grade of material?

   The cheaper metal is probably for 29ga. I much prefer 26 ga. Paint finish can vary too in quality. Look for the Kynar.

    

    

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1. 
   DaveRicheson | Jul 09, 2009 02:11pm | #3

   Are there any negatives to installing light guage metal directly over shingles?

   BIL got a quote for such an install. No furring strips added to the existing shingled roof. Just 29 ga, metal screwed directly down to the sheathing through the old shingles.

   Didn't seem right to me but I didn't offer and opinion because I really wasn't sure  if it was right or wrong.

1. 
   Piffin | Jul 09, 2009 02:34pm | #5

   It will telegraph pattern, and if there is any condensation, it will rust thru from back sooner than later. i'd want a minimum of a 30# felt for slipsheet. There are SO many advantages to using a furring that I can't understand why anybody would not want to do it. 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   DaveRicheson | Jul 09, 2009 09:50pm | #15

   >>It will telegraph pattern, and if there is any condensation, it will rust thru from back sooner than later. i'd want a minimum of a 30# felt for slipsheet.

   My thoughts exactly, but I'll keep my mouth shut untill ask. I've done several acres of industrial wharehouse and manufacturing metal roof building but only two light guage ag metal roofs (both mine).

2. 
   crosscountry | Jul 09, 2009 05:12pm | #9

   For Piffin: The 1.99 stuff is 29 gauge and cheaper paint, 2.99 is 28 gauge and better paint (both proprietary formulas). For All: Seems the more I research products, the more manufacturers' claims to sort through. Bottom line is I'm looking for a value product, not necessary the most expensive nor cheapest. This manufacturer (Midwest Manufacturing) also offers a 'snap-rib' product that hides the fasteners. Distributor in Wisconsin isn't too far from home (Illinois) so might have to take a road trip! Thanks to all for taking the time to reply.
   Jeff

1. 
   tubby | Jul 09, 2009 06:08pm | #13

   I put the snap rib version from menards on my cabin and have been very happy with it. At this point it's only 4 yrs old so I can't testify to it's longevity.  Installation was pretty easy, all hidden fasteners (in my mind the only way to go) and all pcs came precut to the proper length.

   I would not put it directly over shingles though. Even over 30# felt you can still see imperfections such as little bumps.

3. 
   IronHelix | Jul 09, 2009 02:18pm | #4

   And when the metal fasteners rust off or the rubber gasket fails from heat and age then you can look forward to finding the leaks or replacing all the fasteners.

   The painted surface of standard grade metal is good for 15-20 years then the rust begins to creep in at the folds and bends. Cleaning, priming, and repainting is needed then, which means $$$.

   Just maintenance issues, like any other product installed on the outside of a house....just be aware.

   .......Iron Helix

1. 
   Piffin | Jul 09, 2009 02:39pm | #6

   Good points about fasteners.It is usually not age, but improper driving that makes the neoprene washer develope leaks over time.Never seen a fastener rust off, but I have seen them shear off. Three things contribute to that.Driving too tight
   Thermal stress where the climate has a lot of extreme temp swings to move the metal panel
   using wrong screwsI always used the larger size screws - the heads are a 5/16" bit. Standard is a #12 with 1/4" head. And I slightly oversize the holes I drill to let the metal move a bit with the heat.Another thing that might cause a lot of breakage in screws is the idjits that try to start them with a hammer, leaving them with micro-fractures in the shank 

    

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1. 
   rez | Jul 09, 2009 09:35pm | #14

   I always used the larger size screws - the heads are a 5/16" bit. Standard is a #12 with 1/4" head. And I slightly oversize the holes I drill to let the metal move a bit with the heat.

   What size drill do you use on the holes?

   Thanks 

    

    

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1. 
   Piffin | Jul 10, 2009 12:16am | #17

   Iron Helix corrected me that the 1/4" head has a #9 shank. it is the 5/16" had that has a #12.I drill slightly over the size of the thread so I can push/pull it in a hole with no catch. That means I just root around in my kit until I can hold a bit up to sky light against a fastener and be able to hide the faster threads. My bits are a jumble and not kept in an index, so I rarely go by numbered size. 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

2. 
   frammer52 | Jul 09, 2009 02:54pm | #7

   And when the metal fasteners rust off or the rubber gasket fails from heat and age then you can look forward to finding the leaks or replacing all the fasteners>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..

   I have the ability at my age to look at roofs I have done in ecess of 25 years ago.  While I appreciate your attempts to point out weaknesses in metal roofing, the screws and washers are not one.  I have never had to replace.  Oh, by the way, the pain on the painted metal is still holding fine, the only rust is on the galvanized ones.

1. 
   jimAKAblue | Jul 09, 2009 04:47pm | #8

   The quality of  yesteryear's paint and fasteners is history. The finishes and fasteners of today will not hold up like the stuff you did 25 years ago.

1. 
   frammer52 | Jul 09, 2009 05:24pm | #10

   You could be right.  My take is that this is used by people to denigrate the metal roofing.!

2. 
   IronHelix | Jul 09, 2009 05:24pm | #11

   The installation methods & means is often the snafu as well as available assorted qualities of materials. The non-use of drywall type screw guns that set to depth rather than torque clutched drills is a major point of incorrect installation/failed fasteners or seals.Unless otherwise spec'd the normal locally supplied fastener is a 1/4" drive on a #9 shank, which as pointed out is subject to twist-off. The upgrade to 5/16 is a smart move.As to finishes...the quality varies with spec'd kynar as the top end area. Stock ag metal is not kynar and therefore shows preliminary rust lines at bends & folds early on, ie. 15 years or so.Even in the same manufactured product line there can be variation in the longevity of the surface coating. On large jobs(50-100 sq) one can sometimes observe after 15-20 years a varied wear pattern between single sheets applied to the same roof plane & orientation.I have sold, installed, repaired, inspected for correct installs, warranty and re-coating in some manner or form since 1972 and I would remark that some installs are good for a long time past 20 years and some don't make it 10 years. Often environmental factors kick in. Shingles are not a lot different in nature.Failures sometime are due to poor installation, but there are also prorated surface coating failures. The owners claim on a 20 year roof at 18 years of age is usually not worth the owners hassle. Prime & repaint is common. And just try to get the installer back for warranty or faulty workmanship after the first year.All products have plus and minus qualities, the interpretation of those is crucial and even more so is the means and method of installation...............Iron Helix

3. 
   Piffin | Jul 10, 2009 12:08am | #16

   I'm thinking some of the finishes are better but the fasteners - too many come from china junks now 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

4. 
   BigBill | Jul 09, 2009 05:46pm | #12

   I think that Menards carries DECRA stone coated metal roofing that can be installed directly over asphalt shingles. 

   I have a Decra roof on my home and love it.  Not cheap stuff, it runs in the hundreds per square for the materials.  Has a 50 yr warranty.  Has highest hail, fire and  wind damage resistance ratings I could find. 

   I don't sell or install it.  It is what I selected for my home because I feel it is the best roof I could get.