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I am entertaining the idea of installing metal roofing on my turn of the century home. Any suggestions on design ideas? Any favorite product lines? I have fond memories of standing seam metal roofs on homes in my childhood. I don’t want my home to look like a commercial building and am interested in choosing a product that will look architecturally in keeping with 100-year-old structures. What might I expect to pay relative to typical shingle roofs? |
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Replies
I assume you don't mean the most recent turn of the century.
You assume correctly...although, that would be a clever selling catch phrase for a six-year-old home.
About 5 years ago, I compared the Englert prefinished 50 year standing seam metal roofing system to a good quality architectural 40 year fiberglass shingle. About $8000 for shingles to $70,000 for the prefinished standing seam metal. Seemed extreme at the time, but no locla contractor had the capability. IF you have a local contractor that can do a 50 year standing seam roof, you will probably see closer costs. IF you cannot afford a very good metal roof, go with something else.
We have an 80 year old farmhouse and came to the conclusion that metal is not an authentic material for this period... but... there are many similar aged houses around here with standing seam. The typical material is 26-gauge, 12" wide pans with 1" ribs and maybe a couple of pencil ribs down the middle.
For cost comparison purposes, we put 40-year Pabco shingles on the house, and it cost about $150 per square for the shingles and the installation. Add for metal trim, felt, plywood if necessary, etc. We are putting a Nu-Ray 24-gauge standing seam roof on an outbuilding and it's about $450 per square for materials and installation, including felt. So, the metal is about 3 times as much.
Bear in mind that every roof is different, and a cut-up roof with lots of flashing and other stuff will cost more than a simple gable.
David, you said:
We have an 80 year old farmhouse and came to the conclusion that metal is not an authentic material for this period.
It depends on where you are.
When living out in NE Indiana, we would go to Cincinnatti and points south by going down a non-interstate highway that paralleled the western edge of Ohio, driving down through Quaker farm territory through Richmond, Indiana.
We would pass farm after farm after farm, all the buildings dating from way back, and I would always remark on the metal roofing. The buildings were probably roofed in wood shingles when originally built (that area was built up in the middle 1800s), but some super-salesman must have made a lifelong living selling all the farmers replacement roofing in metal.
Not steel, not copper, but something else. Maybe someone knowledgeable can chime in here. Terne-coated copper? Lead? Who knows.
But seamed. Not a standing seam as we know it, but long seams running from eaves to ridge, indicating the material went on in rolls, not pans.
These re-roofs go on for 75 miles or more, and may go on in directions east and west for a ways from there. Probably done sometime over 50 years ago.
My wife is the historian for the town here. She has a huge archive of architectural photos dating back to the earliest buildings here, and everything was wood shake roofing. At some point the barns started switching to corrugated steel, but you rarely see anything like that with any detail--hips or valleys, etc.--it's always just run top to bottom. And, it's always rusty too, starting at the edges and at the screw/nail locations. We had major discussions before she agreed to go with standing seam on our shop (which is intended to look like a barn). The argument that finally won it was about how I'd be up there in 10 years on a steep pitch replacing screws.
Now, there are several farmhouses I know of that have standing seam and I think they look great, but my definition of great is colored by knowing that the service life of the material is much longer than shingles.
One of the major manufacturers in the market here was putting out painted roofing on which the paint has not lasted well. It chalks up, fades, and generally looks lousy.
After some websurfing, I have decided that the metal roofs I remember down in SE Indiana Quaker country were all terne, and maybe even original, not replacements.
This, from a McGraw Hill website, discussing Follansbee Steel, a producer with a long history:
The "old tin roof," brought to the new America by roofing craftsmen from Wales in early colonial days, was the forerunner of the Terne metal first produced by Follansbee and its founding companies almost 200 years ago. Since then, Terne has written its own remarkable history of service. Many distinguished residences and public buildings were roofed with Terne because of its reputation for durability. One such residence is the John Pierpont residence in New Haven, Connecticut. Its original roof is still serving its function after 235 years! Properly painted and maintained, no other painted architectural metal can match its historic performance. It allows the architect/builder/owner to select from a complete spectrum of color, thus creating the truly traditional look of a metal roof. Today, Terne is a popular choice of architects who want color as a roof design element.
Thanks. I checked out the Follansbee site...WOW! That was exactly the type of information I was looking for.
When properly applied, metal roofs can last many lifetimes. My home was built in the early 1700's - it still has it's original shake roof which must have been covered over a hundred years ago with a standing seam roof.
There are many different metals that can be used for a roof - aluminum, steel, copper, lead are all examples. Steel is the cheapest and to make it last longer, an alloy coating - usually hot dipped - is applied. It can be a blend of tin and lead - terne plate, or galvanize which is mostly zinc, or aluminum and a blend of aluminum and zinc called Galvalume.
The beauty of a metal roof is that once the coating degrades - and it will with time, you simply wire brush it and paint it with an asphalt empregnated paint. As I said, my roof is at least 150 years old and we've coated it twice in 30 years. It is best to let a mild film of rust develop prior to coating - that's why you wire brush the roof prior to coating. The rust gives the paint coating some "teeth" for good adherance.
With the exception of tile and slate, I know of no other roof that will last as long for the minimal amount of maintenance required - and all roof need maintenance. And asphalt shingles come from oil, so they do have only a few more generations left before they become extinct.
> It is best to let a mild film of rust develop prior to coating - that's why you wire brush the roof prior to coating. The rust gives the paint coating some "teeth" for good adherance.
Have you tried one of those chemical rust converters? Wire brush, then paint it on, and it changes the red oxide to the dark blue oxide, which is more stable. It doesn't continue rusting under the paint, and it's physically stronger than red rust. Chesterton is the one I use.
-- J.S.
Never used the treatment but AI do understand how they work. When we did warranty work on metal roofs, our contractors simply brushed the surface and then recoated. The treatment you suggest should work well but is more labor intensive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>It can be a blend of tin and lead - terne plateNot any more. About 10 years ago, Follansbee abruptly quite making terne without notifying any dealers. The replaced it with Terne II which is a zinc/tin alloy on sheet steel. It is total crap. I've seen it rust thru in less than a year if not painted immediately and it is hard to solder. The last three Terne roofs I did failed within 5 years and I had to replace them out of pocket since Follansbee would not even investigate why they failed. Their behavior and poor new product is more than partially responsible for the popularity of copper roofing and flashing in my area and the area Gene Davis is speaking of. I have never used terne coated stainless, but I've priced it and it's pricier than copper and harder to work with. The scrap has little salvage value. Follansbee is practicing somewhat deceptive advertising. The stuff they make now is not the stuff that lasts 100 years.
Can I get that Little Debbie snack cracker out from under the heel of your pointy boot?..
http://grantlogan.net/
> I have never used terne coated stainless, but I've priced it and it's pricier than copper and harder to work with.
Ouch. With the price of copper going astronomical, I was hoping that the coated SS might be a good alternative. Is there anything else that works like copper and lasts like copper?
-- J.S.
Is there anyone who still makes the product that Follansbee dicontinued?
Maybe Follansbee had to get the lead out, just like the paint makers.
The gothic cathedrals of the middle ages were roofed in heavy lead panels, all seamed. Now there is a long lasting roof for you.
Whew! Think of the lead content of the soil around a building like that.
>>>>>>>>>>Maybe Follansbee had to get the lead out, just like the paint makers.That was exactly the case, but the way they did it was sneaky. They kept it a secret and just switched products. I was caught in the middle of a large job and had to scramble around to find enough of the old stuff to finish. Before I quit using terne, it was almost as expensive as copper by the time you added the cost of painting.
Can I get that Little Debbie snack cracker out from under the heel of your pointy boot?..
http://grantlogan.net/
The base metal used for roofing has to have some strength - making it ribbed can add strength to softer metals like aluminum. However, for cost and strength, steel wins but it oxidizes easily (rust). Hence steel has an alloy coating that gives it a "sacrificial" protection - the coating oxidizes in deference to the base steel.
The alloying metals should be higher on the chemical electromotive series that the base metel - usually steel (for chemical compariosn, iron). Both Aluminum and Zinc are higher than Iron on the chart and of course they do make great protective coatings. Interestingly, both Tin And Lead are lower than iron on the chart. Tin is obvious - it rusts in no time - just stick a tin can outside for a few weeks. Lead is very dense and its "corrosion oxide" is really a tight outer layer on the Lead so it does provide good physical protection but not a chemical one like Aluminum and Zinc.
It is important to allow air space under a metal roof (and for that matter, shake shingles as well). When metals are in continuous contact with moisture, they will corrode. So metal roofs do need to have air circulating top and bottom. I've seen a whole lift of V-crimp Galvanize roofing sit on a job site unprotected for several weeks and the owner finds "white rust" in from the edges on many of the sheets. The owner blames the metal but in fact it is the owner's problem for not properly storing the product.
Metal is a wonderful roofing product - very popular in Australia - but like any building material, it requires good product knowledge and periodic maintenance.
Yeah, I'm aware of all that. I don't whole heartedly agree with the airspace under metal in all situations. I don't see any reason for it under copper, nor does anyone at the Copper Development Association. My background is in historic roofing, so galvalume is somewhat foreign to me. I know what it is - I've never used it. Snap lock seams are not an option to me in most cases, so most preformed products are useless to me. Most of my projects require soldering (built in gutters, etc.) so any prefinished materials will not work. I don't like relying on caulk. The old terne metal was high in lead content and lasted well. I know of roofs around here that are 150 years +- old and still worth giving another coat of paint. I'm seeing year old terne II flashings that haven't been painted yet covered with rust.
Can I get that Little Debbie snack cracker out from under the heel of your pointy boot?..
http://grantlogan.net/
I've seen Follansbee products but have never used it nor have seen it used in my area. All my experience is with steel based Galvalume and Galvanize and with proper maintenance, can and do last many lifetimes.
I read all the postings prior to my comments and have a bit to chime in with. (Did I end my sentence with a preposition?) Anyway, I had to do some repair work in S. MS after Katrina. What I saw was amazing. The only roofs not damaged, (except one, the one I was fixing because someones elses roof blew into it and compromised its integrity) were metal! Every single shingle roof that I saw was damaged. (Obviously I did not see every single roof) So that is a pretty good testimonial. I will put metal roofs up from here on out. I was unfamiliar with Follansbee and it seems they stepped on their pee pee with the product change out. But I bought some from an outfit in Hopkinsville, KY called Moutain Metals Manufacturing. Since I just installed it I can't vouch for "Several Lifetimes" of service but I was pleased with them. They got me the material within 24 hrs of my request. (Which was important cause I needed to get a repair on that building in S. MS) I wish you luck. I think metal roofs are the way to go. KD
This is a zinc product from Germany.
http://us.rheinzink.de/
They have standing seam, but also some interlocking diamond patterns that look real nice. Definitly a high end product. We have several buildings on a college campus with the interlocking diamond panels.
Ithaca, NY "10 square miles, surrounded by reality"
Edited 6/5/2006 3:05 pm ET by Stray
I checked their web site and called the local (LA) guy. The 26 gauge Rheinzink, roughly equivalent to 16 oz. copper for roofing applications, is $3.09/Sq. Ft. That's about twice what copper was a couple years ago, while real copper is three times what it was then.
So, we have copper, stainless, and this Rheinzink so far. Are there any other candidates for exterior sheet metal that doesn't rust or corrode away?
-- J.S.
John, I got some samples from a company that was making copper coated stainless a couple of years ago. Looked promising, but I never was contacted by a rep and forgot about it. Pricing was less than copper, but it was only available in 2000 lb rolls. I might have to revisit that idea. Company was in Cali.
Can I get that Little Debbie snack cracker out from under the heel of your pointy boot?..
http://grantlogan.net/
That sounds interesting.
I also checked out a product I heard of a long time ago, Cor-Ten steel. The stuff rusts, but somehow is supposed to stop when it gets a pretty good stable layer of oxide on it. It turns out that it rusts deep enough to not be practical in gauges thin enough for our purposes. If it gets scratched and re-rusts a couple times, that's enough to make pinholes thru any workable gauge.
Are there any coated aluminum products that can be bent on a brake without effing up the coating too much?
-- J.S.
I was just wondering about Cor-Ten and the other 'rusted' product...can't think of the name off the top of my head. Google returns suggestions that it isn't fit for residential roofing, but in high-end ski areas with $10-15 million dollar homes, rusted roofing is ALL the rage.The homes are all designed to look old - we do timberframing/post and beam work for them out of reclaimed timbers. They look awesome...but I have always wondered about Cor-Ten.
There was a discussion on Cor-Ten on Breaktime some years ago. With some luck, you might even be able to find it with a search. I think the complaint was that Cor-Ten sometimes continued to rust and the run off of the rusty water would stain everything below.
"I think the complaint was that Cor-Ten sometimes continued to rust and the run off of the rusty water would stain everything below."
It does indeed. I live in the home of Cor-Ten -- Pittsburgh, PA -- where sits the US Steel Building, former world headquarters of US Steel. A 45-floor monument to Big Steel made entirely (on the outside, anyway) of Cor-Ten. The area surrounding the building is made of exposed aggregate concrete carefully colored to match the rust that "bleeds" from the building. There are also drains incorporated around the base of each column to divert rusted water to minimize staining. I don't think the integrity of the steel is affected by the rust -- it's more of a protective coating -- but it does continue to bleed and it's been something like 35 or 40 years since the thing was built. So if you do intend to use it, make allowances for the rust staining. Also, my understanding is that it's harder than regular steel to work with. Interestingly, there is a fountain in the plaza of the building also made of Cor-Ten, but they recently (at least I noticed it only recently) painted it with some tan coating. Don't know if it was for esthetics or some other reason.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Cor-Ten and Mayari-R are two of the trade names (US Steel and Bethlehem respectively) for what is known as high strength low alloy weathering steel. Over a period of months (and sometimes a year or so depending upon the climate) the steel oxidizes to a heavy, solid coating that inhibits further corrosion.
The original applications intended were bridges and the like - primarily to reduce the cost of continuously painting the structures. Then Architects got ahold of the product and started applying it to decorative applications including residential homes. The product is great except that as the previous poster notes, you will get some red oxide runoff until the suface has fully weathered. The steel industry has always been cautious in recommending applications for this product - typically a stone drip area is provided to absorb the oxide runoff. Once the weathered surface is established, the stone can be renewed and will not have as much oxide stain.
One home built in the 60's on a small residential island near Baltimore was the home of a steel company sales manager. Fortunately he knew enough about the product to plan for all the weathering that took place. To my knowledge, his home still has a beautiful patina and is doing well.
In addition to the weathering period as a drawback, these steels are not cheap. It would be one of the last products I would pick for roofing - it's really not designed for that application. There are too many products designed specifically for roofing - aluminized, galvanized, zinc/aluminum, zinc - all coated on a good low carbon steel base. Many carry 20 or more years warranty and with proper maintenance can last several lifetimes.