I was sent an interesting press release today about Micro-CHP (Cogeneration of heat and power). It’s an interesting concept where basically you take a quiet little generator running on nat gas. You then cool the engine with water and this ‘hot water’ is used to heat the house or heat the hot water for the house or both.
Supposedly this system can produce power&heat cheaper than I guess buying the electricity and using nat gas to heat the house separately. The concept seems odd to me cause burning fuel in an ICE just seems at odds with the whole green power generation thing.
These companies are coming out with a stirling cycle unit that makes more sense to me. http://www.infiniacorp.com/applications/combined_heat_power.htm
If micro-chp was sold as an efficient boiler for water heating that also happens to produce electricity that would make more sense to me.
What do y’all think about this tech and does anybody have any experiences with it?
Thanks,
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Replies
Send me one, I'll try it.
Seriously, if Nat gas was available ( piped, not a tank of LP) I would , for our situ. 2 adults only, it would be interesting.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
I agree it would be interesting but I just can't exactly get my head around how to figure out if you are actually saving anything by using it?
Maybe when they have the stirling cycle micro-CHP available in 2011 I will have an answer?
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
I agree it would be interesting but I just can't exactly get my head around how to figure out if you are actually saving anything by using it?
Problem is you're asking the wrong question.
Cogeneration has long been used for industries that require either an electrical generation facility or a steam heat facility.
The electrical generator can ALSO heat water for space heating or industrial use. The steam heating plant can ALSO generate electricity for industrial use.
On a small scale, of course, the same is true for residential applications.
It's not so much that you're saving something (though you are) but that you're getting something extra. In other words, IF you have one need you may as well take advantage of the waste product and turn that into a usable form.
It's a lot like a farmer turning his manure into energy to heat the cow barn. It's all about recapturing waste and turning it into something valuable - creating a closed loop.
It's part of the Hannover Principles, created by architect William McDonough for the Milennium Worlds Fair: eliminate the entire concept of waste - cradle to cradle technology - every output becomes the input for something else (based on Nature's principles).
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
Edited 1/31/2008 11:22 pm ET by Riversong
Hi,
I think the idea has some merit.
There are some more micro CHP info listed here:
http://www.builditsolar.com/Experimental/experimental.htm#InterestingProjects
Down the page a ways.
From a greenhouse gas point of view, a natural gas powered generator is going to produce less greenhouse gas per KWH than the coal fired plants that most of us get electricity from.
Commercial NG elec generation is listed as 1.28 lb CO2/KWH
Coal fired electric plants emit 2 lbs CO2/KWH
So, you basically get both the electricity AND the heat for half the CO2 emissions of a coal plant for just the electricity.
The only downside I see (apart for potential maintenance issues) is that there is limited need for the heat in the summer -- although it could be used for DHW.
Gary
One problem would be your heat demand would be higher at night and your electrical load would be higher during the day. You would also need to run even when you have little to no demand from either, unless you are connected to the grid and selling back and buying when your demands are not balanced well.
Jason
Here is a link on the topic of micro-CHP. This one is developed by Honda an marketed as freewatt Micro-CHP by a Massachusetts firm (Climate Energy, LLC).http://www.hondanews.com/categories/1048/releases/3944Interesting concept at least for places that have net-metering.
Thanks for that I should of known to look there. Here's an interesting statement
In relation to energy costs, Climate Energy test data has shown that when the freewattâ„¢ Micro-CHP system replaces a typical 80% efficiency home heating system, homeowners can realize an average of 30% in energy cost savings
Seems a bit oblique to me since they don't state exactly what the assumptions are in making that calc. Also says that they are pushing it in cold areas as those cust will see the most savings.
Wonder what one costs installed?
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
This month's issue of Finehomebuilding has an entire article on Micro Cogeneration Units. Integrates a heat pump and generator in to a simple package that delivers Air conditioning, space heating, electrical power generation and hot water.
Polar Power unit is quoted at $15,000 installed which provides:
34,000 Btu/hr of air conditioning
Up to 30,000 Btu/hr for heating hot water
Up to 6 kW of DC power for battery charging
OR
In the heating mode it provides up to 36,000 Btu/hr of space heating
Up to 6 kW of DC power for battery charging
Up to 30,000 Btu/hr for heating hot water
The heat from the exhaust can be combined with the heat pump for a total output of 66,000 Btu/hr.
It has a 90% efficiency rating. Now.. I have little technical background but wouldn't this work well for someone wanting to be off-grid as an all in one package? It can run on propane, natural gas, gasoline or diesel.
I have not read this months FHB yet so these comments won't be super specific.
For an off grid house this would only work if it was somewhere with many, many more heating days that cooling. The unit only produces electricity when its heating. During the summer are you going to run it and produce all that heat just to charge the batteries??
This sounds like a great idea but I think you would need an alternate way to produce electricity during the warm part of the year.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer