I been reading through some previous threads regarding composite decking and you mentioned you liked to install Trex and secure it with screws through the face.
I have been considering a composite deck around my pool and am debating face fasteners or hidden fastener system. Obviously from a cost standpoint, I prefer face fasteners, but am concerned with aesthetics. Since you always have good pics, I thought I’d ask if you have any of this particular application.
Does anyone else have pictures of composite decking installed through the face? I know with some, you can mushroom the screw hole and pound the material back down.
Any thoughts??
Replies
Definitely use Trap-Eaze screws on composite - double-threaded; pulls the mushroom right down. Here's the closest pic I could find from work - just leaves little color-coordinated dots
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Forrest - built a bridge, once
Thanks Mc. The main thing I was looking for was the fastener. Yours don't look bad from this picture. I hate to spend the $$$ on composite decking only to ruin it with face fasteners.
1 way to help hide the fasteners and you'll see it in Forrests Rainbow bridge is consistent location of the screws at each joist location. A consistent pattern will not standout to the eye like a random pattern. I use marks that I put on my speed square to aid in the consistent pattern.
It looks even better in person!The best reward for a job well done is the opportunity to do another.
If McDesign doesn't come back soon, that bridge may just become Graceland for design/build hopefuls.
-D
miss Forrest's tales of building adventure
Check with your local lumber yard. I just noticed at mine the other day that FastnMaster has a new plug system. With the srews comes matching plugs and a special countersink bit. Pre-drill the holes with the bit, insert the screw and insert the plug. I talked to one guy and he said the srew holes disapear.
I looked at the plugs and I think that they will match the Trex perfectly ( they even have the woog grain in the plug), however I don't think it will match the palstic products(pro-cell).
Tim
frontieri don't have any pics on this computer... but we use a SS screw similar to TrapEze
( we use a GRK screw )most of it disappears by itself.. we don't take any extra work filling or mushroomingwith composite, i would definitely not use a concealed fasetener... the face fastener is pretty inconspicuousMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
with composite, i would definitely not use a concealed fasetener... the face fastener is pretty inconspicuous
Why? bad experience? just curious. Haven't done any or either but your reason would interest me.
Doug
i've never used one...but i've looked at a lot of themi don't see how any of them that grip the sides can keep the decking from moving and loosening with the constant expansion & contractionperhaps some of the ones that install from below the deck, but again... no... the screws seem to pretty much disappear with the composites
i haven't done any of the pvc decks yet... i imagine they would act more like a wood deckwith ipe' and meranti we still face screw, but we take more pains keeping screw alignment for a pleasing lookthat ipe' is so tough that i'd consider a pre-grooved to try and reduce some labor, but most of the concealed fasteners require gluing and screwing with ipe'Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike
The reason that I asked is cause we are building a house that has a deck with Trex decking using eb-ty's. Deck has only been down for 5 months and the boards are pulling up on the ends,buckles and soft all over, gonna have to rip the whole deck off, not a real big deal cause its only 6' X 10' but no reason for it.
i don't see how any of them that grip the sides can keep the decking from moving and loosening with the constant expansion & contraction
I think we found proof of that very problem today!
Thanks
Doug
frontier
here's another picture... this is Weatherbest composite, top-fastened with SwanSecure Dexxter screws. http://www.swansecure.com/ They have the reverse thread at the top which pulls down the board as the screw draws down. Pre-drilling is advised, even for composites, and gives a much better appearance. I like the soft rotating stop collar on this "smart-bit" for the predrilling http://www.starbornindustries.com/smart-bit/index.html
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Oh yeah - the shingles are my low tech spacing gauges.
Edited 7/17/2008 10:06 pm ET by shearwater
Thanks for the info. I've been following this thread try to add to my very meager knowledge base. We don't do too many decks, but with the market, I'd like to.
Thanks to everyone- you've all helped me make my decision. I was really only concerned with aesthetics at first, but hearing of some of the complaints, I am more confident in my decision to fasten through the face.
I hear that storey over and over and over with the EBTYs
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yea before seeing them in the magazines I thought they were quite the thing in hidden fasteners.
But now after seeing them I'm not all that impressed!
Doug
the local deck guy in my neck of the woods swares by the new invisifast biscuits for
timbertech. didn't like their original system but likes the new biscuits for timberech.
http://www.invisifast.com/biscuit.php
yack, yack, yack... you would have thought a photo gallery thread about decks would have more pics and less talking :)
jt8
"A little 'enthusiasm' and all problems seems small!"
I like the GRK trimhead composite decking screws......They are for a face-screwed application, but the heads are so small they really disappear. You can't see them at all from here ;o)
I don't want to sound like some imbecile because I've never done a hidden fastener system. But if I did...what would be so wrong with laying something on the flat and drilling the screw from down below?
Is this too simple of a solution or wont it work? Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
There is a system like what you are describing, just don't know what it's called.
It is some sort of metal strips that screw down to the joists from the top side and overhangs the joist with holes in that that allow you to screw your deck boards down from the underside. Hope I'm describing that well enough. I don't build any decks so not up on the latest and greatest in the deck industry.
Doug
i think it's DeckMaster... what jon blakemore usesone of the problems with keeping decks looking right is keeping them straight and parallelit's harder to do if you're working under teh deck it's hard enough when you're working on top of the deckMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Just a hassle to get under, probably.
Forrest
"Just a hassle to get under, probably."
But, the funky systems they invent are expensive and a hassle too. I'd rather overlay the entire deck with a doulbled layer of strapping and reach under and screw up. I'm good at screwing up. I'm a big screw up! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I did a quick estimate.We could use Deckmaster on a 16'x16' deck for $333.One layer of 2x4 PT strapping with 3" HDG RS nails into the joists and 2' deckmates in the decking would be $158. Two layers of strapping would run $245.Your method may save some money, but you may have some problem areas. You would need a fascia around the rims to cover the 3" gap and stairs may present a problem. Nothing insurmountable, though.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
The extra cost of the fascia might be negligible, depending on the overall design.
I'm just thinking it would significantly faster but since I haven't installed the hardware I'm just wild guessing. At least I wouldn't be complaining about having to fuss with anything. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
The reason I say the fascia would be negligible is because I tend to stack the fascias anyways when I build deck. I like the depth and style of multi layered wood fascias. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I have done exactly one Trex deck.
Went back 2-3 years later to add on and could hardly find the screws because it had self-healed so well.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
was over to a 2000 trex deck last week... couldn't find half the screws
if the face screws disappear , makes we wonder about side-mount concealed fastenersMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
The last big deck we did was trex- the homeowner insisted on hidden fasteners so that is what he got. Screw on from below and interlock.The deck feels soft as you walk across it and squeaks all over the place- except where it is face screwed from the top.over three grand in hidden fasteners and probably an extra 120 man hoursand it squeakslooks nice thoNo Tag
Thanks for the replies everyone- this is exactly what I was looking for. I think I will be using TimberTech decking (a lot like TREX) and it's already expensive just for the decking. Their hidden system is $120 for 100sf which adds $1.20 a sf to already expensive decking. I know trapeze screws won't be cheap. But that can't possibly cost $1.20 a sf.
We have done two decks this year with Deckmaster brackets. I like the look, but that's just a personal preference.
We haven't had any problems with squeaks, but the decks haven't been in service for years either.View Image
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
jon... that's one of the hidden fastenres i'd consider
but i note that they are steel with a powder coating..... i wouldn't use them in contact with ACQ in our salt air atmosphere.. i'd have to isolate them with a grace membrane or somethingMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
They have just the product for you.
Don't forget to bring your checkbook.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Here are some pics -- Trex with Trapease screws
Dave Otto -- Otto Construction -- PA
nice , dave
have you done any composite decks with concealed fasteners ?Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I have not, but I did a treated deck with eb Ty's. next time I will get the decking pre-grooved. the biscuit jointer was tedious to use.
One of a deck builders around does all vinyl decking and they really like the Tiger claw. But they have had some customers complain about squeaks.
Maybe the boys over at Kreg are working on somethingDave Otto -- Otto Construction -- PA
Those railing brackets are fugly. Nice deck tho.