Has anybody tried the new V18 batteries with their old Milwaukee cordless tools? I,m down to one battery with my combo set and I can’t decide whether to ditch the whole set and buy the makita Li-on or buy two new V-18 batteries. If you have tried them, can you tell me where you got them and how well they work? Thanks in advance.
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Replies
I own the makita ion's... nice grip. batteries last awhile... it doesnt seem to have the power of the dewalt 18v though (especially the new 18v dewalts). I think i am sold on the yellow's since you can always find replacement batteries at the big box stores...and they havent been collecting dust like the other brands. Although, there is a new really light drill from makita (it's white) weights nothing... very pricey though (200)... this might take the cake depending on what you do...
bought some at the local true value, live in the sticks so no big box. can't tell much diff between new and old.
If you can't tell the difference, you bought 18v NiCad battery packs, not V18 Lithium Ion battery packs, which look much different and weigh much less than the NiCads.BruceT
Best price I've seen so far is $210 at toolking.com. Many others have the kit for about $240. I'm still torn on whether or not to buy them. At that price, I can get about 5-6 NiCd batteries.
You could buy 3 1/2 18v Milwaukee NiCads for price of a 2-battery+charger V18 package, but you would miss all the advantages of the new technology.V18s weigh much less - same as 14.4 NiCads
V18s always work at full voltage; NiCads drop in voltage as they discharge.
V18s hold charge much longer when idle; NiCads lose 10-15% in first day and 1% daily after that.
V18s run 40%longer on a charge than 18v NiCads, so 2 V18's = 2.8 18v.
V18s have "fuel gauge to show level of charge.
V18s charger shows progress of charge while it is charging.
V18s have 5year/2000 charge cycle guaranteeBruceT
V18s always work at full voltage
Tell me more about that. Do the V18's include a DC/DC converter to keep the battery pack output voltage constant -would help explain the cost if so. Li-ion are a lot faltter than NiCd but are not 'always at full voltage'
Li-ion cells are just under 4.1 V at full charge (VERY picky for a charger, you try to charge above 4.1 and the battery is toast, not forgiving like NiCd) and decay in voltage as they discharge. For best Li-ion lifetime, do not discharge to less than 40% total charge (60% level on the graph, the web site graph has the scale inverter from what is normal).
graph copied from first web site found that had a graph, http://www.buchmann.ca/chap2-page6.asp, lots easier to cut and paste that a jpg out of own file.
View Image
OK, not completely flat discharge rate, but way better than NiCads. Your graph shows nearly flat to 90% discharge point on the better version.Milwaukee, Makita et al have done a lot of work since 1997 when your graph was published, and their chargers have electronics to optimize charge rate. BruceT
I said 5-6 because I found that the prices for NiCd batteries had dropped almost 50% on some online sources...2 batteries for ~$80. Obviously, I would miss out on some of the perks. I'd love to have that battery guage, so I know before I crawl under a house it is fully charged. What worries me about the weight issue is balance. It seems like a lighter battery would throw the balance out of whack, making it awkward to hold, and more strain.
I just can't figure out why I'm talking myself out of a tool! I need the toolaholics hotline number again.
Hang a 14.4 or 12v battery on your 18v tool and heft it for balance.I plan to call Milwaukee tomorrow to verify that all of the features of lion work when used on the old 18v tools. I'll post their answer when I get it - if I get ahold of anyone who knows.BruceT
I talked to one of the people in the service center here in MKE and he said the motors are teh same in the new tools. The batteries have circuitry that not only regulates the overcurrent issue but keeps them from overcharging. In addition, they store info about input voltage, temperature, demand, charge cycles, etc. Better not have GPS.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
"Better not have GPS."Have you been taking your battery charger places that you aren't supposed to go? Tsk TskI can just imagine the conversation:
"Hi sailor, wanna come to my place?"
"Well sure, if I can plug in my charger there.";)BruceT
maybe
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Will the Li-Ions fit in the job radio? Sure, it's a bit overkill, but 1 battery might last a week in the radio. I've gotten several hours out of a NiCd to weak to drill even a small hole.
They will fit any milwaukee 18v device and run it 40% longer than NiCads. I think I's probably use the old, tired NiCads in the radio and save the Lions for the tools.BruceT
Yeah, unfortunately the tired NiCds have died and already been buried...I recycled them already.
One way to make your existing batteries last longer is to use the better chargers that are available. I've been using the Bosch 15 minute fuzzy logic charger and have been using the same set of (4) 18 volt batteries for 3 years exactly now and they seem to hold up real nice still.
According to Bosch tech - the batteries will last longer with that charger even though they charge faster.Plus - having a freshly charged battery in 15-20 minutes means I don't have to try and keep 6-8 batteries around - one or two always in the charger. I think that improper charging and not paying attention to the heat when storing and charging is part of why folks are burning up batteries so much.I also have the Makita 10 minute charger - and again, it'll change how you think about and use your batteries when charged ones are so close at hand.As for battery rebuilding, why bother? You can get fresh brand new batteries of any kind pretty much for $35-55 each from Ebay - so why try and save $10-15 just to guarentee subpar performance?Bosch has a 3 year warranty on theirs - my 3 years is up in 2 weeks - as part of the 3rd year of warranty - they will sell me brand new batteries for 1/2 price. So for $44 each, I can buy the brand new Blucore batteries straight from the service center and I can still keep the batteries I'm using.JT
5-28-04 and mine is out. So I think around Aug it was like they drooped off a cliff. First one then 2 weeks later 2 and last but not least # 3 bam. I use the bat 16 charger. I have a bevy of 14.4 all of which came be for the 18v and ? they are all still going strong.
Maybe time for you to turn in the still under warranty bats for some newbies. I didn't check but it seems that the new blue core are a heavier battery.
That's what's cool - don't have to give them the old batteries to get the new ones half price.Good idea though - probably will get a couple or three considering the price.JT
Why Lithium? 5 year warranty. 2 years changed 1 for 1. after two years pro rated.
Lithium produces more power longer then just stops. It works well in cold weather unlike the NiCd's. Weighs less. Mot even a hint of memory like the old NiCd's.
I'm just trying to get over the sticker shock. My old 12 v Ryobi's last battery bit the dust last week and I'm trying to justify the whole kit or just the 28 volt drill. Jack of all trades and master of none - you got a problem with that?
Booch,
I got the 28Volt set. It's great, the only problem with the Li-Ion is that when they are done they're DONE! I'll be going along with the Sawzall and make a cut and it's fine and then pull the trigger and nothing. Not a problem just no warning at all. Same with the drill and the circular saw. I do primarily remodeling and since I got this set I don't use a corded sawzall and drill anymore and rarely use a corded circular saw. The drill easily runs a 4 1/8 hole saw, the other day I used it to drill and screw about 60 1/4" x 2 3/8" tapcons into a 10 yr old poured foundation on a single charge.
I't an AWESOME set. The only complaint I have is the price of additional batteries, the best price I've found is about $120 EACH!!! ouch.
I hear you on the end of charge issue. The fuel gauge on the battery is supposed to tell you but in the heat of battle who's gonna check.
As for the NiCD crawl to death. I prefer the quick drop off of the Lithium. The death whimper of a NiCD is just unusable. That last 10% of battery life is spent on 3x as much effort geting a satisfactory result.
Sounds like you got the complete deal with the bag etc. There was a rebate for a while too.Jack of all trades and master of none - you got a problem with that?
Booch,
My deal was way sweeter than the rebate. My brother the physician bought it for me as a birthday present. Aand no. he isn't interested in adopting anyone. :-)
My electrician buddy had some V18 batteries gifted to him. I got to borrow one for a day, and found out they don't fit my radio. Unfortunately, it's been so long since I've been able to use my kit, I couldn't tell if there was a difference in power. Mostly what I used it for was to power my light, but I got a little bit of use out of the Sawzall. I loved the guage on it though, that should be standard on all batteries from all manufacturers...Brilliant idea.
Wish I had something more to offer, and still hoping somebody can offer a better review than I can.
sorry, should have been more exact in my answer. ordered batt. from local hardware and did not notice a whole lot of diff in run times with new batt. talked to another crew and they say they notice "some" differance. most our holes are 13/16 ship auger in about 8 to 14 inches of wood, killes a battery in a big hurry. we usually carry about 8 batteries with us and a charger. screws and small holes there may be a big differance. guess that wasn't much help.
Ship auger?
8 to 14 inches of wood? wow!Are you building an ark?Should I look for some heavy rain soon? :)BruceT
(start rounding up the animals the rains on it's way). working on a log cabin for now but i'm a lineman so pole work is an every day thing even when i'm not doing side jobs.
I'm in the same boat...My electrician buddy and I are both waiting for the V18 retro kit (2 batteries and charger). He saw some batteries (only) for $80+ from toolauthority.com. The Milwaukee rep said the kit should be out anytime, but they aren't so good with release dates. If you need another NiCd, I think the same site had them almost half off.
I found the V 18 kit at tylertool.com, but it's 238 for two batteries and a charger. And it says they have none in stock. The reason I was thinking of ditching the whole set and going with the new Makitas is that I keep burning up the batteries. I didn't want to spend another 200 plus and still have the same problem with the Milwaukees. Have you had problems with your batteries as well.
Well, it's good to know it's out. I hate to spend that much...It's about half what I paid for my whole kit. I didn't have any problem with my batteries until this year, when they both went dead. I'm not sure why, but I was told that once they drop below a certain voltage or charge, you will be unable to charge them again. I had an injury that kept me off work for a while, and I generally used the bosses tools anyway, so I hope that's the only reason. I'd like to know what problems you've had with them. Prior to them dying, the only bad thing was getting them off the tools (old style battery was a pain in the rear).
I've went through five batteries in about three years. They always seemed to go bad for no apperent reason. The first four I lost, Milwaukee replaced under warranty, the last one they said the warranty was up. I don't think I,m doing any thing wrong with them, I own various other cordless tools and have not had any similar problems.
The only cordless I own are the Milwaukee's and a Makita drill. No problems with the Makita (and it's older), but I generally have a battery in the charger. My Milwaukees have been kicking around for 4-5 years, and I'm on the original 2 batteries (well, was...).
Thanks for your help.
Amazon now has the V18's in stock. They have a ridiculous price of 300 plus if you buy the kit (2 batt. & charger) but if you buy them separatley, they come to about 240. Must be an upcharge for putting the kit together I guess. Just ordered mine (separatley of course). Let you know in about a week or so how they work.
Where did you find v18 batteries on Amazon? I searched for them and got no resultsBruceTOK, I found'em. Silly me I searched for "V18 lithium ion battery"; you have to search for just "V18" on Amazon's lame search engine or it can't find anything.Some deal - two batteries and charger for $398; shipping in 1 to 2 MONTHS!Batteries and charger ordered separately price out to $244.Go figure!
Edited 11/9/2006 12:01 am ET by BruceT999
http://tinyurl.com/yeob8m
http://tinyurl.com/yb7aa9
Or go really nuts
http://tinyurl.com/yde8gs
Those are all nicads. V18 is lithium IonBruceT
I didn't know Milwaukee made 18V LI tools until 2 seconds ago when I looked at their website.
When did they release the 18V line?
The kit has been available for a couple of months, the retrofit kit has been on the market for about a week, maybe less.
I think I'm going to get the same Makita kit you got, my 12v makita has been a workhorse but I think it might be time for an upgrade. Sounds like I should have shopped around a little more on the V18 batteries. I did shop the other day and couldn't find them anywhere in stock, now in just a couple of days it seems they're readily available.
Any review of the V18s yet? I'm eagerly awaiting a verdict, before I spring for mine ;)
Yeah, I've had mine about a week now. I haven't been doing much drilling though, so they haven't gotten a real test yet. They are lighter, but not as big a difference as I was expecting. I did run some 6" trusslock screws with my drill after my impact batteries both ran out of juice, it seemed to have better power than with the old ones. But again, I have'nt put them through any real tests. I'll try them out tomorrow with the sawzall and see how it does with that. With the old batteries that thing wasn't worth two dead flies, it would drain the batteries so fast, it wasn't even worth getting out of the truck. The one thing that is a big improvement over the old batt. is the release mechanisms. The old ones were a pain to take off and put on, these are very smooth. Sorry I can't be of more help just yet, I'll keep you informed.
I got mine last week and have used them with my Hatchet sawzall cutting big olive branches and on the circ saw. It seemed like the circ saw ran faster under load than with the NiCads, but I could be wrong. I haven't run the battery down yet.Lighter weight was a big plus when climbing up and down ladders and maneuvering the saw to prune branches at the right angle and to dress the cut.Surprise for me was that the new charger requires a 300W inverter to operate in my van, so I had to upgrade from my old 225W model.BruceT
How are you burning up the batteries? They aren't meant to go totally dead, nor are they designed to totally discharge in a short time. Heat is the worst thing for most things, motors and batteries included.
I would (and do) call the Milwaukee service center and talk to someone in their technical department about how you're burning them up. They may be able to offer some insight. 262-781-5354 or 800 729-3878 for the one here in Milwaukee.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
if your thinking on replacing your current stuff i highly recommend the v28. same weight as the dw18 volt but far superior. if you dont need that much power or you dont use the sawzall that much then i would suggest staying with the v18. i have had the v28 for a year and a half and they still amaze me how good they perform. today i put up 350 ft of shiplap siding and only used half of one battery.
good luck
Tmaxxx
Urban Workshop Ltd
Vancouver B.C.
cheers. Ill buy.
I don't use the sawzall that much, I guess it always drained the batteries so fast. I mainly use the drill and ocassionally the circ. saw. I checked out the V 28 and the Makita 18v Li-on and am leaning toward the makita only because I really like their impact driver. My 12v impact driver is also getting a little long in the tooth. Thanks for you imput.
Al
I have looked in vain for V18's in Orange County - not at HD, Lowes, OSH, White Cap or Ganahl Lumber and none of the staff at those places has even heard of V18. Milwaukee has really dropped the ball on marketing and distribution on V18.
I needed an impact driver so I bought a nice Makita 18v LIon combo kit - hammer drill (about same weight as my milwaukee 14.4 but with twice the watt-hours) and impact driver (just 3.3lb) with 2 batteries and charger in one case; $375.
BruceT
If you haven't already tossed the 2 bad ones (and depending on how old they are) you might want to try to revive them. I don't know if it's just a myth but I wish I had tried it before: I read on a couple of sites that the milwaukee single charger will not recognize a battery once it's depleted beyond a certain level.
The story is that you can jump the batteries up to a recognizable level by holding a 9v battery to the 18v terminals. Might be worth a shot, especially if you're trying to hold out for one of the V18 battery kits.
Anybody wants to send me 'bad' 18 V DW NiCd packs, I'll pay the postage<G>.
I put a post about NiCd dendrites in another thread, easier to repeat than to find it.
Many NiCd fail due to overheat during charge, and a crystalinge growth called a dendrite shorts out a cell.
What I do when my 18v DW (or 12 V DW or 12 or 9.6 V Mak, which is what I have) loses its 'umph' is to check the battery terminal volatage after being on the charger 10 minutes or more. If low, at least one cell is bad.
Take the pack apart, and measure each cell, should be > 1.25 volts.
Find the cell(s) (often more than one) that are not 1.25 volts, and for just 1 second (no longer!!) apply a 12V car battery charger across just that one cell. This burns the dendrite out of the way and the battery can be used again. About 90% can be cleared this way if there are only one or 2 cells in the pack that wont get to 1.25 V.
However, once one dendrite has started growing due to age or overcharge, there are lots of little ones started that just have not grown big enough to short the cells, so this type fix is typically good for less than 6 months. Picked up two 18 V DW packs at a garage sale for $2 last year, cheap as they were 'dead'. Still using them this year, although did nave to replace a couple of cells that would not recover.
I never heard that before but I'll give it a try. Already ordered the V18's, amazon has got them now. I guess there cheaper from tool king though, should'nt have been so antsie. Thanks for the tip on the old batteries, it's worth a try.
http://www.voltmanbatteries.com/index.htm
Someone forwarded me this link this past week. I haven't tried them yet myself, but I will be in the next month or so. I have 18V DW battery that is on its last legs.
I tried voltman and had a small problem, I think they were unfamiluar with Makita 14v Magstar NmH batteries. The Magstar communicate via a special connector built into the battery and the charger to control the rate of charge and status of cells. I explained that to the people there and they said they had never had a problem rebuilding the packs with NiCads. I tried the rebuilt packs and the charger refuses to work. I explained this to Voltman and they were quick to respond and requested I ship the batteries back and they would refund the charges + shipping. I just sent the two batteries back yesterday so I will wait a week or two to see if they follow up with the check. They do have a interesting site and in their defense I fell confident that they will come through ok. They charged $25 for each battery and I paid $9.95 for regular postage.
Should you ever have some time and want to learn a great deal about batteries try this site:
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/index.htm
Jim
I have to update my post about Voltman, I sent my two Makita magstar batteries back to them because I could not get them to take a charge after they converted them to Nicads. They promptly returned my batteries and paid for the return shipping and now they work fine. The magstar charger does not have a problem with them. So at this point I would have to give a thumbs up to Voltman. I have two rebuilt batteries for about the cost of one new one. Time will tell if the hold up ok but so far in light use I can not tell any difference between the old or new batteries.
Jim F.
I tried Voltman for two dead Milwaukee 18v. Not too happy with them.They performed as promised on turnaround - took two weeks to get my batteries back. They were good about dealing with a problem, but the quality seems sub-par.Replacement cells rattle around in both battery packs - may be smaller than original.Both packs failed completely - one in 3 days, the other in 10 days. Voltman re-did them without charge and paid freight both ways - said their "welder" wasn't heating sufficiently.Once I got them back the second time they seem not to last as long as they should. Tester shows proper voltage, but I could crosscut just 5 2x4s with my sawzall before batteries ran down.I'd rather buy new battery packs.BruceT
Edited 11/9/2006 8:20 pm ET by BruceT999