I just finished a small job for a new customer.just some misc things to get ready for the inside of the house to be painted next week.the customer was given my name by one of the local painting companies that gave a bid on painting the house.when I was there working. a different person came by to show paint samples to the home owner. this person introduced herself to me as a interior decorator/painting contractor. she had apparently gotten the bid to paint the inside of the house. the customer is talking about remodeling the kitchen at the end of summer and had asked if I was interested{I am a license general contractor] I said sure as the time comes closer give me a call and we can talk about it.well the painter decorator seems to think she already has that kitchen job in the bag and wondered if I would be interested I doing the finish carpentry part of the kitchen .we exchanged cards and when I was back at the office I checked the license on her card it shows that she has been licensed c-33 painting and decorating for less than one year and carries no workmans comp she plans to show up monday morning with her crew to paint these peoples house.and seem to have plans to remodel their kitchen.
my question is should I say anything to the home owner about her not having workmans comp insurance on her crew of four men and not being properly licensed to remodel a kitchen? she took this job out from under a legitimate painting contractor. but is it any of my business
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I mind my own business unless it keeps someone from getting hurt... i'm talk'n like blood & stuff hurt... then i only offer once... if they don't heed... then i watch...
Guy joined us once on a trail ride... borrowed an enduro tank i had... put it on his bike right there at the trails... i offer a little advice but... he was pretty bright and had it undercontrol... besides i was only 17... he'd never ridden these trails before but took off in the lead... i hung back and watched and waited for the sceen of the crash... dude hit a guywire leading out of the campground and went fly'n...
if he'd listened I'd have told him no way his forks would turn with the tank pushed all the way against em...
nature will thin the herd if we'd just let it...
p
maybe tell the HO what your business IS (licensed, insured, experienced, legit/legal) Vs what the decorator is not or something along those lines.
The decorator's card says that she carries no WC? If not, how do you know that?
Assuming the WC matter can be verified, I wouldn't tell the HO but I'd sure call the contractor who gave the HO your name and tell him/her what's going on. In fact, I'd say you owe that person a call.
Otherwise I wouldn't take sides. You never know who might become your next best source of work.
her business card did not say that she did not have comp insurance I check with contractors license web site to check license information on the web site it states that she has no workmans comp because she has no employees at this time. but she will be there monday morning to start the job. she under bid the other painter by a good bit
I seriously doubt it, but is it possible she's using a licensed labor pool?
More likely the HD labor pool, of course...
hmmm that is very possible I am glad you brought that point up I have done that on a few jobs where I needed a lot of clean up and demo work I guess you could get painters from a temp agency
Just my opinion but I wouldn't get too concerned about her hiring some painters to do a couple days inside work, without WC. It's not very often that an interior painter gets injured so perhaps she's decided to self insure for the time being.
I think it's wise to stay friendly with business women who work in the trades as contractors or in other roles.
I got a surprising amount of work through women who I had treated with kindness and respect. Not only a couple of contractors but women in the real estate business and others who appreciated my attitude and went out of their way to recommend me to their friends.
Edited 4/9/2008 4:49 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
I checked because she seriously underbid another company that I know very well to be fully licensed and cover their employees with work comp. to bring employees on a job without comp is illegal if an employee is injured it will be the home owners responsibility. to be able to price work lower because you don't cover your workers is wrong. my self and most contractors pay all the fees/insurance and taxes that are requierd.for someone to skip all these fees and give lower prices is wrong but if you tell you customer then they know and accept responsibility
to self insure you must deposit a very large amount of money in an escrow acount.some large companies are able to do this
recently there was an incident where a plumber had an uninsured helper who tripped on a water hose and broke his foot the home owner had to pay for the medical and may have to pay for lost wages homeowners insurance will not cover this
"It's not very often that an interior painter gets injured"Agreed on that, they are more likely to hurt the house than themselves.But here, painters WC rates are some of the highest. When I asked why, it was not the working off ladders that made for high claims.Repetitive stress injuries
Lead poisoning
Benzenes and other chemical cocktails inhaledThe long term stuff.
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Be very careful assuming anything. I can think off the top of my head of 1 builder who mainly builds $3 million+ with no workers comp or employees and another with only 1 employee.
What you have is a customer buying on price only... It may be a blessing your buddy didn't get the job. Till the house is painted the fat lady ain't singing and the deal ain't done. Wait patiently grass hopper.
I think I will just mind my own business thanks for all the input .I very much appreciate this board and all the good advise that can be had here
thanks to all
I would NOT state that this decorator has no insurance. I might be wrong.
But if I had a good relationship with the HO and was having a conversation with them, I might ask them if it is important for them to be sure that all the workers on the property are covered by WC. The I might follow up by asking if they have gotten the certificate from the decorator.
See, I am just curious - asking questions...it is their business to be smart enough to take a hint.
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Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Since you mention C-33 I assume you are in California. I've been in another state going on 5 years but IIRC the state website lets you perform license searches and shows insurance and WC status. Yeah, I would bring it up with the homeowner. Maybe they care, maybe they don't. They may not understand the risk if there are uncovered workers on their job, and in my experience the folks without licenses and insurance are also working for cash under the table.
Talking directly to the decorator may be effective also. Let them know you checked their license status and ask why they are proposing to contract with only a specialty license and without WC coverage.
If you really want to go all out, you can call the CSLB and ask if they would like to take action in this case.
I would give a heads up to the Painter who referred you as to what is going on.
As to the HO, you might say something to her like,
"By the way, I noticed that you did not ask me if I am licensed for kitchen remodeling work, nor whether I carry workman's comp insurance and liability insurance to protect you in case of some accident on the job. You also did not ask about my level of experience or references. I have all of those, of course, but you really should ask any prospective contractor about those things before hiring him."
That would also be a good way to open the door to the HO about proper coverage.
Well said.
Good approach!
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I'd give her a call, and tell her you were looking into doing some future business with her and when you went to verify her info with the state it said she was not properly covered and that she might want to look into it so her correct info is on there website.
This lets her know she is being verified and it is now up to her to do the right thing.(or not)
as a note: i always verify subcontractor licenses through the state website. It is quick and easy to do. and they are pretty up to date.
You can always attach copies of your documentation of your own status in with your estimate or bill and simply tell them that it is a good idea to procure the same documentation from any contractor they hire.
Just mention that licensed and bonded contractors have to have that documentation.
I'd just say to ask any contractor if they are insured and licensed for the work they are doing. Just keep it as general advice and see what happens. You could also state that you are licensed as a general contractor and carry workmans comp on all your workers.
There's no reason you can't state to the homeowner you credentials and insurance. Just don't point fingers.