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Mini excavator or dig by hand?

Jake0358 | Posted in General Discussion on December 12, 2008 02:56am

I need to excavate a 3′ deep by 11′ long trench for the installation of a footing for a garage conversion. I want to keep the trench as narrow as possible so as not to affect the existing garage floor slab or to undermine it, as well as to remove as little as possible of the existing asphalt apron. By keeping the trench narrow I can use the earth walls to form the footing sides, while setting some material in place to form the part of the wall that will extend above grade. The soil is compacted and clay like. The question is this, do I spend the money for a mini excavator and operate it in a very tight space where the height is limited to 8’6″, or do I dig the trench by hand while trying to keep to a maximum width of 16″, and potentially having to deal with who knows what size rocks by hand that I may come across.

The job is so small that I’m not going to try to sub it out, yet haven’t had to deal with this type of problem in the past so I don’t have a feel on which way to go.

Your input from experience is appreciate.

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Replies

  1. davidmeiland | Dec 12, 2008 03:04am | #1

    If you're a skilled operator you might be able to cut a trench like that very cleanly. On the other hand, even reasonably good shovel operators will be able to do it. Anyone you know looking for day labor?

    1. arcflash | Dec 12, 2008 05:06am | #10

      Rent the bobcat. I live on clay soil, and a 2'x6" post hole takes about twenty minutes. Save your back. 

  2. peteshlagor | Dec 12, 2008 03:10am | #2

    "Your input from experience is appreciate."

    Start digging.  Talking about it isn't gonna get it done. 

  3. RobWes | Dec 12, 2008 03:25am | #3

    Hope you don't find any hard digging.

    DIESELS RULE

  4. husbandman | Dec 12, 2008 03:57am | #4

    Dig it by hand. You'll probably want a pick as well as a good strong round point sand shovel. The cheap shovels are flimsy and harder on you. HD has a shovel with a yellow and green sythetic handle that's slightly triangular i.e. not completely round. I find it much easier to use, even bought a second one.

    If the area is nicely landscaped, put down a tarp before you pile the dirt on the adjacent area. It'll be easier later.

    I have similar soil. In dry summer it's hard as a rock. If yours is dry, you might add water the day before you dig. Not to much, just enough to dampen the area, not flood it.

    Good luck!

  5. turlough286 | Dec 12, 2008 04:03am | #5

      Get an Ames Pony shovel.  It'll likely last you the rest of your life and worth every penny.  Don't skimp.  If you think you need a pick or mattox pick that up too.  You'll be done before you know it.

  6. alwaysoverbudget | Dec 12, 2008 04:36am | #6

    i'm old or lazy,well probably both.

    if they make a machine to do it,why do it by hand.

    i'd see if i could find someone with one of these small bobcats that you walk behind and let them dig it. it's going to be tough to be up against a sidewall and dig a nice staright trench.but hand digging stinks if it's clay with rocks.

    if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?

  7. User avater
    intrepidcat | Dec 12, 2008 04:49am | #7

    ditchwitch?

     

     

     

  8. User avater
    davidhawks | Dec 12, 2008 04:53am | #8

    Get good gloves!!!

    The best reward for a job well done is the opportunity to do another.

  9. jayzog | Dec 12, 2008 05:02am | #9

    I would dig it by hand, but I enjoy a nice little digging job like that. Probably about 5-6 hrs at a moderate pace. Would take 'bout the same amount of time to rent a little machine, dig it and return it, and then you still would have to go to the gym to feel like you did anything in the day.

  10. jej | Dec 12, 2008 05:09am | #11

    if you do it by hand get or rent one of those electric jack hammers it takes the work out of the job

  11. Hudson Valley Carpenter | Dec 12, 2008 05:12am | #12

    Get a pair of comfortable leather gloves, then dig until you're either sick of digging or loving it. 

    If the ground is hard, begin by taking two-four inches off the top of the area to be excavated, then fill that impression with water and let it soak down overnight. 

  12. musashi | Dec 12, 2008 05:18am | #13

    Personally, I am both cheap and foolish enough to dig it by hand.  It's not all that much, really. 

    Three years ago, in the process of putting an extension on the back of my house, I dug (with a pick and shovel) 3 or 4 feet down, 12 feet wide, 20 feet long.  Then I dug trenches for footings.  No room for even a wheelbarrow to fit through the narrow basement door of my row house, so it all went into the dumster out front via 5-gallon buckets. 

    It was in the heat of the summer, and none of the day laborers I hired for help showed up for a second day, even though they were paid well (I guess it was too much like work, so they all went back to try their luck on the street corner again).  So mostly I did it myself.  I lost 20 pounds that summer.

    3' x 11' x 16"?  Go for it.

    Alex

     

     

     

     

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
    -Groucho Marx
  13. User avater
    Jeff_Clarke | Dec 12, 2008 06:12am | #14

    Here (Central NJ) we can rent a Yanmar or Komatsu mini excavator, which is a total snap to learn, for about $300/day plus diesel.

    So I'd rent a machine ... like this one:

    View Image

     

    That way, if you hit anything difficult, you know you're going to be able to remove it.

     

    Jeff



    Edited 12/11/2008 10:17 pm ET by Jeff_Clarke

  14. woodway | Dec 12, 2008 06:14am | #15

    Dig by hand, Bosch demo hammer with spade bit, sq. pt and round pt. shovel, gloves, hat and wheel barrow if needed to haul dirt far away. When your finished, send half the money you would have spent on rental my way. Your Welcome!

    1. rlaggren | Dec 12, 2008 06:42am | #16

      Demo hammer w/a spade bit does help in bad clay. Get the kind of mattock w/an ax bit, not a pick, on the other end; don't get it too big, it's not a pick - if you notice the weight when you pick it up, should probably get a smaller one. Use the mattock for tree roots and to shave the sides.Speaking of tree roots.... What else might be under there? Don't want to hit something breakable with a machine.I like the idea of ditching 2" and letting water sit over night! The machine will probably cost you more straight off than a couple laborers, not even counting set-up, learning curve, misc issues, screw-ups. And you might find some guys you like - help out later. Digging a ditch is a pretty harmless way to vet workers.Cheers, Rufus

      1. woodway | Dec 12, 2008 06:57am | #17

        yes, a mattock is, would be, another handy item to include. I've got the older trigger squeeze model Bosch demo hammer and that tool is worth every penny I spent on it. One of the great advantages of using a demo hammer is you can accidentally hit a plastic DWV pipe underground and not punch a hole in it if your careful. If you use a pick, or some other such tool, the plastic pipe is toast with little or no effortl

  15. Karl | Dec 12, 2008 07:29am | #18

    I will add to what four people have already suggested.

    Use a Bosch Demo hammer with a clay spade!

    Not the electric Jack hammer that has its own cart but the variable speed one that comes in a blue plastic case and takes sds bits (but doesn't rotate).

    I have rented mini excavators and impress even myself with how much collateral damage I can create. They are fun to use but I don't use one enough to get sufficiently proficient.

    The demo hammer is a breeze. It cuts through clay, stone, roots, etc effortlessly and is light enough it doesn't wear you out to use it to cut through the tough stuff.

    All you do is start by digging down to the desired level, clean out the loose stuff and then use the clay spade to shave chunks off the dirt wall into the space you just cleared. You stop periodically to shovel the loose stuff into a wheelbarrow and repeat the process.

    There is no comparison to using a pick or mattock it is so much easier.

    We dug out a 26 by 44 basement an avg of 4' deep using one. It worked great.

    Karl

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