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Minor Roof Repair

dtgardengirl | Posted in General Discussion on October 26, 2005 04:28am

We have a few shingles that are not in order.  The questionable areas are along the west side of a two story house with a chimney adjoining a one story garage.  We have two layers of shingles, so I know we are in order or a tear off, but hope to wait until spring.  The question is, can the raised shingles and/or flashing be repaired to last through the winter (Zone 5b)?  If so, what is the recommended method.  The guys cleaning the gutters said it had to be an adhesive that reacts to heat.

Based on the fact that one of them called the next day continually decreasing his price, we passed on him.  He was so desperate and determined that the pressure was too high.  I’m afraid if I call a roofer, that they will insist only a full replacement will work.  I just want a repair now, from a reputable person, before winter, until we can address the tear off in the spring. 

a) who to call, a roofer or a handy man for the temporary repair?

b) what method is appropriate for a minor and temporary repair to stick down a few shingles?

My basic situation is a few shingles that are slightly raised along the line I mentioned before.  Not being a pro, it seemed that an asphaltic sealer holding down the few shingles would be workable, maybe some tacking,  and the flashing needs inspecting and whatever potential repair is needed to get us through the winter.

Any advice out there for a reasonable repair, without the scare to replace, this minute, (which we know we’ll be doing – just not this season)  No leaks, etc., and we aware of mold and damage issues.  We don’t want those either, nor have we observed those issues.  We want to prevent them until the tear off.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts and suggestions, which are all welcome.

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Replies

  1. DanH | Oct 26, 2005 04:57am | #1

    This isn't a difficult repair (if it needs repair at all), especially if you're not too picky about the appearance. An indie roofer or a handyman can handle this. You probably can too, if you have the time/inclination.

    And any roofer that tries to high-pressure you into a tear-off when you're just asking for a small patch job is probably one you don't want doing the tear-off.

    --------------
    No electrons were harmed in the making of this post.
  2. User avater
    RichBeckman | Oct 26, 2005 05:16am | #2

    If you have shingles that are no longer sealed to the shingles beneath them, it is a simple matter to apply two or three dabs of roofing cement beneath each tab (or two or three dabs per foot of shingle if there are no tabs) and press the shingle into the cement.

    A competent handyman should be able to do it.

    I don't understand what the problem with the flashing is supposed to be.

    Rich Beckman

    Another day, another tool.



    Edited 10/25/2005 10:30 pm by RichBeckman

  3. Hazlett | Oct 26, 2005 02:44pm | #3

      A competent handy man can probably handle it

    But why would you bother with a handyman?

    This could be an ideal time to talk to prospective roofers for next years project----and in the meantime " test drive" one of them on the repair.

    Best wishes, Stephen

    1. dtgardengirl | Oct 27, 2005 04:48am | #4

      I appreciate the tips on the repair issue.   I brought up the flashing as is seems to be in the middle of the shingle situation, but without known problems.  Due to the situation, it seemed appropriate to consider the flashing as it is adjacent to the shingles in question.   I was being  cautious.  You are right in giving a roofer a "trial" on the repair.  So it seems you are recommending a professional roofer for the temporary repairs as opposed to a "handy-man".

      What I think I am hearing here is to use a "believed to be" reputable roofer for the fix and if it works ,use them for the tear off and replacement if we are satisfied we got good advice/service on the repair.  Do I have it right, or am I missing something important here?

      The other issue is that I don't want to waste people's time on a small repair.  I can call a dozen people on the small problem, with the HOPE they will be called for the big job.  I don't want to give folks a false start and I don't want to waste their time and mine in estimates for the small repair.  I'm discarding the handyman issue on this one, but how do I NOT want to jack-around reputable roofers in this situation  I don't want to waste anyone's time, both theirs and mine.  Are you suggesting I get a couple of estimates from good referenced roofered and go from there?  I'm at a loss on this one!   Note:  I know of about three DIY'er who DIED after falls.  My requirement is that we hire insured pros and my inexperienced spouse is not ar risk. 

      What is reasonable in estimates?   Are three enough?  Should I even tell them that their repair will be a factor in future needs?  How do I be fair to all and get good service now?  All info appreciated.   I am a loyal customer, but have high requiremnts as to insurance and professional abiity.  Sometimes,  it is difficult to distinguish the difference. Again, all thoghts and ideas are welcome.  Thank you in advance.

      1. DanH | Oct 27, 2005 05:13am | #5

        It is a problem -- this time of year lots of roofers (at least the good ones) are racing the clock to do reroofs, and don't tend to have a lot of spare time for piddly jobs.But some big outfits have a guy or two who do nothing but small jobs, and some small roofers may have a day or two between jobs, so call several and see how you do.Note that you shouldn't base your choice of a roofer entirely on how they do this job. They should also have a competitive quote (quotes can vary by a factor of two or more) and you should be able to check some of their work (nearby reference jobs) and see how they look.--------------
        No electrons were harmed in the making of this post.

      2. Piffin | Oct 27, 2005 06:34am | #6

        When I was roofing, I would have loved the opportunity to do your repair. Hazlett was right with his advice to get a roofer. This is a first date for the two of you ( You and roofer, not you and Hazlett) to get to feel each other out.I don't clearly picture exactly what the problem is, so a roofewr can more easily diagnose it by seeing it, and klnow and advise you what you are in for.I am wondering in the bacl of my mind why this just happened to appear when the gutter cleaning guys were there. Is it possible that they caused it, even possibly with the intention of selling you the repair for it? 

         

        Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

        1. dtgardengirl | Oct 28, 2005 01:59am | #12

          Nope, this problem didn't appear with the gutter guys.  I observed the same area affected on another house with my profile as well.  I believe it was weather related and did observe it before they ever showed up.  In fact, I pointed it out to them as an inquiry, so I am sure it was not them, but wouldn't have them back after the hard sell and the quickly dropping price in one phone call.  It just left us with a bad instinct type feeling.  I'm trusting my gut on this one.  Good question though.  Thank you.

      3. Hazlett | Oct 27, 2005 02:10pm | #7

         Call a few likely candidates.

         Tell them that you have a roof that you NEED to replace in the spring and that you would like a proposal for that AND that you have a situation  NOW that you need repaired to get you through untill the new roof project in the spring.

         the candidates will sort themselves out in a hurry

        You will soon find out who returns phone calls, who actually shows up, who shows up on time, who presents you with a detailed written proposal( one for the repair---and another one for the roof replacement)---or who just scribbles some mysterious numbers on a crumpled business card.

        you are not jerking anybody around---you are a willing and active buyer

        Best wishes, Stephen

        1. dtgardengirl | Oct 28, 2005 02:01am | #13

          Great advice!  The repair tied to the replacement will likely draw out the pros faster.  I'm going to follow your advice on this one.  Thank you so much.

      4. User avater
        BossHog | Oct 27, 2005 04:32pm | #10

        What's the big deal about waiting until spring? Roofing can be done any time of year.My suggestion would be to look at fixing it correctly NOW, rather than throwing money into temporary repairs that will be torn off in a few months. Actually - You might get lower estimates during the winter, as roofers are short on work.
        Ambiguous headline: PROSECUTOR RELEASES PROBE INTO UNDERSHERIFF

        1. Hazlett | Oct 27, 2005 10:37pm | #11

           BossHogg,

          most of the roofers I know-----that actually make money roofing---start bumping their prices up about sept.

          If they are good and in demand----by sept.-oct. they are pretty well sold out for the year anyhow

          which means---right now I am selling next springs' roofs----at a higher price than LAST springs' roofs---( always exerting upward pressure)

           and---certainly roofing can be done year round----but the chances of having it done WELL in December,January,February----are considerably less than having it done well---in say MAY.

          and as a contractor---the chances of doing it profitably in the winter---are pretty slim.

          So why would I do it?

          Actually---about march is a good time to get a pretty good price---as  a lot of  guys have eaten up their "winter money" and are ready to WORK !!!!

          Plus---at that time you have a lot of new guys starting up their first businesses.

          Best wishes, Stephen

  4. User avater
    Dinosaur | Oct 27, 2005 02:48pm | #8

    Hi, gardengirl, welcome to BT.

    Your problem could be anything from a no-brainer on up, but it's difficult to tell from the info in your question. If you can answer a few basic questions, I'll be able to give you better advice.

    If you can post a photo of the problem area that would help a lot.

    What is the pitch of the roof?

    Where are you located? Do you get a lot of snow in your area?

    Which way is the problem area facing (ie: north, south...)?

    How old are the existing (top layer) shingles?

    Dinosaur

    A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...

    But it is not this day.

    1. dtgardengirl | Oct 28, 2005 02:17am | #14

      Hi, Dinosaur.

      I'll try to get a photo in a few days.  They are always helpful.

      As to the pitch, I'm not sure how the pros define pitch.  My guess-timate is roughly 45 degrees.  I know when we added the screened porch a neighbor said we should use the same roof pitch for a consistent look.  (Good advice as it doesn't look like a wart, but part of the house.) To me, it appears like an equal triangle on all sides.

      Snow is iffy.  I'm in Indianapolis and it depends year to year.  Sometimes a lot and sometimes not so much, at least all at once.  Being in a tornado prone area, I'm inclined to believe wind did the damage.  It's also part way up the edge, not near the gutter area.

      The front of the house faces north, the back directly to the south, no fancy bends and turns, just a rectangle.  The shingles in question are the right at the west edge of the two-story part of the house (the attached garage and "bonus = junk" room are west of that.

      The top layer is old enough that I can't tell you exactly, but it seems like about 18-20 years, if memory serves.  I don't recall the number of years the shingles were warranted for, but I'm guessing we went with the highest as we'd only been here a few years with a toddler or preschooler, who is now 22, and intended to stay a while.

      I appreciate the insightful questions and know a photo is a big help.  I'll try to get that up soon.  Thank you very much.

      1. User avater
        Dinosaur | Oct 28, 2005 06:29pm | #15

        I'll be waiting to see that photo when you can get it posted. That'll be the best way to diagnose this thing at this distance.

        That said, from the sound of it this is not a big deal. You have (correct me if I'm wrong on any of this):

        1. A steep roof, which means it is inherently less prone to leaks than a shallow one

        2. Not much snow load, which means a low likelihood of major ice damming

        3. A northern exposure, which means less direct sunlight to create solar ice dams from whatever snow you do have

        4. 20-yr-old shingles, which are probably about due for replacement but are not falling apart

        5. A second layer of shingles underneath, likely with black paper under those, so in effect you probably have three layers of roofing materials protecting your roof deck from the elements, and you certainly have two

        6. The affected area is on the rake (gable) edge, and finally

        7. No leaks at present.

        If all that is correct--and subject to what I see in your photo when you can post it--I'd say provisionally, follow Murphy's 2nd Law and leave it alone until spring and you have the whole thing stripped and re-roofed. Screwing around with it now could create more problems than you already have, and/or cost you money that'll be chucked into the dumpster in 5 months anyway.

        Remember it is not impossible the gutter-cleaning guy was just hoping to sell you a repair job for something he saw as an opportunity to do just that. 

        Dinosaur

        A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...

        But it is not this day.

        1. dtgardengirl | Oct 29, 2005 04:16am | #16

          Thank you, Dinosaur.

          I'm not experiencing any visible leaks.  Don't know what it looks like in the attic and even looking in the scares me - spiders etc.....

          It really is only a few flipped up shingles along the line I mentioned.  Snow would probably lay them down temporarily.  I looked at the roof when I pulled in and right now we have a covering of ash leaves.  I'm hoping for a good wind to make it visible enough for you to see in a photo.  I know the gutters will need another cleaning, but with the Sycamore in the back, the last drop seems to be about Thanksgiving, so I want to wait until then to have someone else to clean the gutters for winter.  I won't allow my dear hubby to do second story work, three people I know died after falling.  I hope to keep him a while.  And we could clean gutters weekly here and still have leaves, not to mention those stinking helicopters from the silver maples we inherited in the spring.  Twice in a few months is about all we can manage to hire out.

          It sounds as though you have years of experience and are offering good advice on what you just said.  Your pointing out that I likely still have some protection there sounds very logical.  I'll work on getting the photo for a better idea for your assessment.  I appreciate all your time in addressing this issue more than you know.

          P.S.  Know any good quality roofers in Indianapolis?  That will be challenge number two.  Or, is there a professional roofer organization I can check with that might have something on my area that could be a resource?  I also know you and several others recognize their work product, good ethics and reputation are the golden key to success.  I'll gladly pay for that as opposed to the lowest bid just for price.  Is there a roofer "training" program in the trade?  I fear I could hang out a shingle and not know diddly-squat, but I don't have a clue.  What are the requirements to be a professional roofer?  Certification, licensing, etc.?  Or could I contact my shingle manufacturer to see who they have certified?  I just don't know the program in this particular area. 

          Also someone in the construction trade told me that the big box stores put up your job for the lowest bidder.  I don't even know if or how they screen their subcontractors - I don't know if this is true or not.  Note that I have not used a big box contractor so I can't comment one way or the other on that, I just wonder about it.  I wonder too much for my own good sometimes.  Please, before I upset anyone, I recognize there are honest decent people in all trades/positions and the few bad apples just pop up once in a while.  That's why we want to hire a professional.  We'd be ill informed bad apples at best as DIYer's, but are smart enough to realize it up front, so that is why I ask these questions.  Thanks again, Dino. 

          1. Piffin | Oct 29, 2005 05:17am | #17

            using installers through a big box is a crap shoot. Sometimes you cvan get a good one, but because the Box is wittling them down in price and using them as subs they are often guys who are just starting out and may or may not have good repa nd experience. I can tell you that as soon as they do build a good rep and clientele of their own, they don't work for the BOx anymore.I used to install for Sears when I was fgirst geting going as an independent contractor. I also installed for another Home Improvement contractor in town. Both of these outfitrs had sales teams and financed the work to the point that the finance charges ended up costing the HO nearly as much as the actuall job. Sometimes all the customer couldsee was $X per month regardless of the total expense.I remember one job that I bid out and did my best to sell. Didn't get it.
            About six weeks later, I got a work order from Sears to go re-roof the same house. I got started on it after the HO left for work in the AM and was 60% finished when she got home that evening. She was some surprised to see me roofing her house. I was getting the same pay from Sears that I would have been charging her direct. She had bought into the line that they had better quality installers than the average cheapo shingle crafter ( me) and since she had a limnited income, she went for the monthly finance option with them.She got the same quality job either way, but the paymnent option abd the big name brand gave here piece of mind - until she realized how it works. 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          2. User avater
            Dinosaur | Oct 29, 2005 06:05am | #18

            Piffin has given you a pretty clear picture of the way big HI centers work. It's about the same up here. Unfortunately, he's in Maine and I'm in Québec, so being able to recommend a local roofing contractor in Indianapolis is a stretch.

            What I can recommend to you is to ask around to other HO's in your area. Word-of-mouth recommendation is often the very best way to find somebody good. I would tend to recommend looking for a remod guy because I'm a remodeling specialist...which means I don't specialise in any particular trade; instead I have to be able to do a good job at everything. (Otherwise, I lose my shirt.)

            If you can find a good, reliable remod guy in your area who has done satisfactory work for friends of yours, talk to him about your roof. If he's not comfortable doing it himself--which is possible, not everybody is comfortable working at heights--he will recommend someone local who meets his requirements...which are likely even more strict than yours, because his reputation will be on the line with you once he's made that recommendation.

            Dinosaur

            A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...

            But it is not this day.

          3. Piffin | Oct 29, 2005 07:20am | #19

            I guess what I didn't finish in my story to her is that I only did Sears' work foir about six months before I had plenty of my own customers and refeeralls and didn't need to bow to their demqands. It was dcent keep busy work but not great haymaking.Projecting from that experience, I think that what you find at such places for workers / subs are the up and coming but yet semi-experienced guys like myself who move on up the food chain, or the hacks who have no place else to turn, on their way back down. 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          4. User avater
            Dinosaur | Oct 29, 2005 07:36am | #20

            ...which kinda gives a medium-quality at best, unless the HO gets particularly lucky and catches one of the good ones just before he bails....

            Dinosaur

            A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...

            But it is not this day.

          5. calvin | Oct 29, 2005 02:08pm | #21

            I sent your inquiry on a roofer recommendation to a former poster here at BT.  He's a builder in Indy.  Perhaps he'll get back here or to me via email with a referral.

            Best of luck.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.

            Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.

            Quittin' Time

             

          6. JLazaro317 | Oct 29, 2005 05:15pm | #23

            Thanks Calvin,

            Former poster here...current lurker when time allows.

            dtgardengirl,

            Where in Indy are you located? I'm on the westside of town. I'd be glad to refer a roofer to you.John

            J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.

            Indianapolis, In.

             

          7. dtgardengirl | Nov 03, 2005 12:29am | #24

            Hi, John.

            I am on the far northside, just inside 465, near US31.  If you have a few referrals, I'd love the info.

            Would you by chance be in the Real Estate business?

            Thank you.

          8. JLazaro317 | Nov 03, 2005 05:43am | #25

            No, not in the real estate business....just building. I've got a roofer I can recommend for repairs. I wouldn't recommend turning him loose by himself on a reroof. He really doesn't have the resources. I'm getting ready to do a complete tear-off and reroof for a friend at 77th and Hoover road. Let me know what you're looking for.

            Thanks,John

            J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.

            Indianapolis, In.

             

          9. dtgardengirl | Nov 04, 2005 02:33am | #26

            Well, at this point I am hoping to get a photo of the minor repair issue for Dinosaur.  It looks like spring would be the big tear off of the two layers of shingles and decking.  I think that is the correct way to do it then and the timing is better for us for that cash lay out.  I think I'll wait for an assessment of the situation before we decide if a repair is necessary until spring.  We had big wind today as you know, but the leaves are obscuring what I need to photo for the moment.  Maybe tomorrow's gentler wind will uncover the area.  I am taking a vacation day tomorrow as we are expecting a 70'ish degree day that is partly sunny for garden/deck chores - AND to enjoy a great day we may not see for a while!  Hope you are enjoying this unseasonably nice weather too. 

            Did you know that when selling a home you cannot legitimately say "new roof" if only a new layer of shingles were added, at least here?  I thought that interesting, but now have a new view on that issue for resale. 

          10. Danno | Oct 29, 2005 02:33pm | #22

            Looking in attics full of spiders is what husbands are for!

            You asked about pitch--just like in math class, slope is the rise over the run, (in this case measured against a constant run of 12, so a 45 degree slope is called 12/12 (in words, "twelve twelve")). If the roof rises 6" on a 12" run, it's a "six twelve," and so on. Now you'll sound like a pro when you tell the roofer you have a 12/12 roof!

  5. Danno | Oct 27, 2005 04:21pm | #9

    I would ask a roofer to look at it--it sounds like it is likely to be the flashing, in which case they could do a temporary repair. Something like removing the top couple rows of shingles replacing the flashing and replacing the couple rows of shingles. Then consider re-roofing in the spring; and like others said, this would be a test drive--if you like the temporaty fix job the roofer did, then you can hire him/her for the reroofing job in the spring.

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