Hello –
I’m about to retire my old Rockwell Bucksaw, and buy a 10-in. sliding miter saw. I went looking through the archives of Fine Wookworking and Fine Homebuilding, and the most recent tool test article I could find was printed in 1996.
Has anyone found a good quality, adjustable, portable saw stand?
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Replies
IMO the absolute best is the American Design & Engineering 'SawHelper' stand. I have one and love it... sleep with it under my pillow... and will buy another soon. The guy that works for me has a Dewalt large-sawhorse-type saw stand with two outriggers. Piece of junk by comparison, I don't even like to see him set it up.
I am looking too and have also searched forums here at JLC and elsewhere. The preferred alternative seems to be he Sawhelper from American Design and Engineeing. The Rousseau models such as the 2875 are favoites of some folks and there is also a build it yourslef contingent that will suggest a few good options. I don't have enough time to buidl the projects I want let alone build stands, jigs, etc.... Sawhelper and Rousseau are more expensive than something such as the Rigid stand that other folks also seem to like alot.
After using the AD&E stands for a couple of years I am completely unable to be happy with a stand that does not have continuous support tables. On mine I can cut anything from 12" long to 20' long safely and easily. That stands with outriggers need adjustment depending on the size of the piece you are working on. I use my stand for stuff aside from cutting also... it functions as a mini-workbench quite often for coping, etc.
What do these stands cost (what should I expect to pay)And which model is the goto ?
If I recall, the main choices are how long the left and right tables are. I got 8' left and 5' right, but I'll get longer next time. The size I have is convenient if you are setting up inside houses a lot. Other than that I think they ask you which saw you are using so as to send you the correct brackets (tables connect to saw). I remember spending about $300 but I didn't get their saw table (had my neighbor make that part).
A friend of mine has the AD&E table and really likes it. He too says it speeds his production time.
I have a cheap HF knock-off of an HTC stand. It works well.
I was going to buy the HTC model when I found similar the HF model for way less. The harbor freight model cost me $50 and has worked great for almost 4yrs now. The HTC model was running $250 at the time. It is portable on wheels, foldable, and serves multiple functions. I usually use it for my mitre saw, but occasionally use it for my planer; or just as a good long workbench. It is cheap enough that I don't have to worry about it getting banged around or left outside (it spent one year riding on the roof of my truck). My friend with the AD&E table is extremely cautious because the table needs a certain amount of calibration with the wings(?). Although I generally despise HF, this is one purchase I didn't go wrong on.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=40612
http://www.htcproductsinc.com/pmss.html
gk
Redleg-
I have been using the Delta universal miter saw stand(model 50-155) for the past 5 years with my DW 12" slider and love it. It has adjustable outrigger supports, folds for easy moving, and large wheels. It is easy to take up and own stairs and very maneuverable. It does the job I need it to do, and is very sturdy IMO.
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I also have the Delta but have not had as good of luck with it. I keep it in my tool trailer so it goes everywhere with me. In it's travels various screw heads have snapped-off which means an hour or so of drilling out the old shank and tapping a new hole, etc. The plastic mount for the saw has also cracked in a couple of places. If I didn't have to transport it as much I might be happier with it but it just hasn't taken to the road very well.
I just picked-up the Makita 1013 slier from heavydutytools.net and refuse to mount it to this stand. I've looked at the Rigid (which gets positive reviews) and our local yard just had a vendor day, the Makita booth used a Porta-Mate stand for their slider and the Makita guy praised it.
-Norm
AD&E works best set up in a production environment.
The calibrated stop system saves at least two steps.
Pulling the tape and making a mark, sighting the mark with the blade,
cutting up to the mark.screw all of that...
SET THE STOP AND CUT.This feature alone will pay for the system in short order.
We have had almost every other system. AD&E does it for us.If you are in this to make money,
time is money.
"AD&E works best set up in a production environment."
I rarely work in a production environment. My focus is smaller projects, repairs...handyman typework. Once set up I might make a dozen cuts so a fairly high percentage of my time is set-up and take down.
I like the wheeled stand because I can just unstrap it from the trailer, roll it down the ramp and be set to cut within a minute or two but I'm willing to go with something different if it's quicker/easier.
From the ADE wesbsite it looks like the saw, the stand and the fence extensions are all seperate pieces - does this make set-up/takedown easier or a no?
Thanks, -Norm
The extensions come off the saw.
the saw comes off the stand.
the stand folds up and off you go.I have a 10" makita compound slider on the AD&E system.
I have a 12" Bosch " " on the Ridgid rolling contraption.The AD&E is vastly easier to move around.
Don't know about the American Design unit but i have two deltas and a ridgid
The ridget cost 160 cdn and the delta was 300 cdn
the rigid has 6" more reach than the delta and is heavier built and more universal for mounting other tools on it eg thickness planer etc.
Stable-mate is what I have
~110$ sturdy, easy, Durable, good supports, and you can be like ME!!!
I have no comment...
I have one also, great for the money.
redleg... for our chop saw , i like the Dewalt
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for our sliding compound miter i like the rigid.. bought it when it was on sale for $99
( bought 2...still got one in the box )
this Bosch saw is a bear.. but i can load it by myself with the Rigid
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Edited 8/12/2006 7:05 pm ET by MikeSmith
Edited 8/12/2006 7:06 pm ET by MikeSmith
Edited 8/12/2006 7:06 pm ET by MikeSmith
hey mike- was checking out that ridgid model . the one they were charging 99.00 for,and the one there charging199.00. are there any diffrence in the models or is timing everything??.." As the spirit wanes, the form appears."
same creature... someone here said they were on sale about two years ago..
so i checked a couple HD's and found two at the $99 price
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
red...... if i didn't already own the rigid & the dewalt... i'd probably spring for the
American Engineering & Design SawHelper
here's a pretty good review :
http://www.buildernewsmag.com/viewnews.pl?id=230Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Jack and I each have an AD&E, mine with the 8' on L and 5' on R, his with the longer 9'6" on the L. His is outfitted with the Hitachi 10" dual bevel slider, mine with a DW 12" singlebevel chopper. Killer combo. Took one of them over today for my BIL to use in trimming out the new timberframe barn.
Why don't you invest in one for your next job? The no-tape, no-pencilmark feature is worth the price alone. Easy setup, easy transport.
why don't you come to TipiFest and give me yours ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Gene, I was thinking about getting the AD&E w/ 9.5' on right and 5' on left for my makita slider. Do you recall what that set up costs roughly? Their website doesn't offer pricing. Also, do you think it's a decent set up for framing or is it geared more towards finishing? I'm just thinking that the stops would be killler for whacking out a house worth of studs and the built in tape measure would be nice for door and window cut lists.
Does it really set up in 60 seconds?View Image
Somewhere under $500, Brian. Setup is quick and transport is easy.
Here is the setup. Saw is fixed to a tabletop about the size of the sawbase, the tabletop having cleats on its bottom side. The tabletop with saw sets into the sawstand, which is the second part of the act, unfolding in a couple seconds.
Each sidewing clips to the saw brackets, and clipping a wing into place and adjusting its height takes about a minute. Done. Unlike a one-piece sawstand, though, getting it from the trailer to the deck will require three round trips. Saw, stand with sidewing legs, sidewings.
The kit is at least as rugged as anything else out there, although the width of the sidewing arm tops makes cutting stock wider than 2x8s a little dicey.
Consider it as a high production accessory, not your end-all cutting station. Studs, crips, jacks, header plates, blocking, birdblocks, all those funky shorts you need to boost out your gable rakes, etc., can be cut much faster, IMHO, with a setup like this.
The stop is nice, but it's a stop, and we all know what a stop can do for repetitive cuts. But the tapes that go into the sidearm recessed grooves . . . they are a whole new thing as far as productivity goes. Need a 2x6 by, say, 76 11/16"? Set one on the stand, sight its end on the mark, and cut. Leave your tape and pencil in your pouch.
But keep on cutting your joists and rafters like you do now.
Great review Gene, thank you. That's just the sort of applicable information I was hoping for. We never use the 'choppers' to cut any heavy framing lumber.... like rafters or joists. But we use them for all the parts that go into our walls (with the exception of structural headers) and quite often for exterior trim work as well. So they probably never see anything in 2X larger than a 2x6 and rarely anything in in 1x larger than 1x8.
Sounds like it might fit in nicely. And $500 is about what I expected, but didn't want to entertain the thought too much if we were talking $1G or something.
Thanks again.View Image
Looks like I paid $365 last summer for an 8' wing and 5' wing, both with their one legged bases, plus the brackets to mount to the saw and the cutoff stop.
The AD&E saw table would have been another $100+, but I didn't buy it because I don't want a piece of plywood permanently mounted to the bottom of my miter saw... makes it harder to carry around. I had my neighbor make a table out of tubing that has some shelves and has adjustable feet.
I'll echo what Gene said. Having the rail with tape and stops is an amazing productivity booster. I used to have that setup on a 12" RAS I'd lug to jobs back in the day, and have it in my shop with my SCMS now. I can see for things like door & window framing being able to set the stop and crank all your same-size framing in record time. And if you use it with a 12" you can do all the headers as well.
To me it's one of those things that once you get into rythmn of using it vs. old methods you'll never go back.
Seems as if you move the stand a lot, then the Sawhelper is a good option as are the other moveable stands like the Rigid and others with wheels. Looks as if the advantage of the Sawhelper is the fence --- that is what attracts me as I use my slider for cross cuts a lot. The Rousseau stands that have wings on them also have a fence setup that seems attractive ... here is one http://www.rousseauco.com/model2875xl.htmHas anyone used one of those for a comprison to the Sawhelper or are they just differt types of stands that aren't comparable?Thanks
I doubt I'd go for the Rousseau over the Sawhelper. The wings are supported diagonally rather than by their own legs, which would make it a lot less sturdy. I want to be able to bring a 2x12x20' over and throw it on the saw without tipping it over, and the Rousseau does not look like it could handle that.
One of my local tool suppliers stocks the ADE Saw Helper, so I have been able to look at it pretty closely. I think all of the good words about it are absolutely true, and if I were using it only for trim or cabinet work I would hesitate to buy one. But here's why I didn't: I work out of a van. You would need to figure out some way to store the two rails (most seem to get a 5' and an 8'), plus, the saw, and then the stand. If you work out of a trailer and could lash the two rails to the sidewall, and stash the saw on a shelf, the system would be easy to transport. For years, I have used a Trojan 2000:http://tinyurl.com/ojmu4This is a fold down stand, and the rails telescope -- making for a nice neat package. The saw stays permanently attached (well, bolted to the stand), and it will ride upright and lashed to the wall of the van. Very slick, and doesn't take up much space. However, with the saw attached, it is heavy, and I don't look forward to lifting it in and out of the van by myself. So, about six months ago I went shopping for a second stand, and decided on the Stablemate Professional:http://www.doityourself.com/invt/0442764Had I had some good way to transport all the component parts for the Sawhelper, I would have bought one (mainly because of the stop system), but the StableMate seemed a good compromise, and it did have some nice features --- wheels so you can move it around the job site (which you can't do easily with the Sawhelper), brackets for an easily removable shelf (which I find very handy). The saw is mounted to a set of brackets that attach and remove easily from the stand, and the stand itself folds up into a compact package (with a carrying handle). You can get an accessory stop, but it's not in the same league as the Sawhelper stop.In sum, if accurate repeatability is important to your work, and if you have some good way to transport the component parts, I think the Sawhelper is at the top of heap for mitre saw stands.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
gene... next saw i buy will probably be a double compound 12" dewalt
(light ... easy to transport... bulletproof ... accurate )
and i'll get the American Eng stand for it
in the meantime our workhorse is the dewalt single compound 12" and the dewalt stand
our go-to for interior trim and finish is the Bosch scm and the rigid stand
but of course, a lot of this is really done with nowadays with our 2 EZ-Guide setupsMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike -
Thanks for the time you took to help me find a good miter saw stand.
This is my first experience with Breaktime, and I received 42 replies. Wow!!
All the best to you.
Redleg
Redleg-
How are you going to be using the stand? I mean do you haul with a truck or a van?
We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
Hey Rez -
Thanks for getting back to me.
I don't need to load and move my saw every day any more. I did that for more than 20 years; but now I make most of my living working at a desk. It's still in my blood though. So I'm living in a house I am building to sell, and I'm making sawdust on a regular basis. I built my own kitchen cabinets for the first time, and some nice built-ins; and I'm hoping to do more cabinet work for other people. I just can't do the bull work any more. My body will not put up with it.
A bunch of years ago I bought a Delta Bucksaw for $525. Right after I got it, I got a job trimming a house, and I paid for the saw with that one job. It is a sliding compound miter saw, with folding legs and big wheels, and a 3-foot extension off the left side. I had so much fun with that saw that I rebuilt it over and over again, until now it's not good for much other than framing material. It's worn down enough that I can't do the kind of trim work I want.
From what you and some other people posted, the A, D & E system will give me the chance to do repetative cuts easily, and still give me the chance to load my saw in the back of my truck and take it anywhere I want to have some fun doing what I love, working with friends on a carpentry project.
Thanks again for your help.
Redleg
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We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
It was in our HD's about four-six months ago or so. I scored one for $100...I think they're now $150.
I like it a lot more than the Delta which I also have.
The Rigid lets you wheel it around with out folding it up which to me is a MAJOR plus! Its still WAY worth $150 IMO.
See ya soon hombre'
a...If Blodgett and Gunner say, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
TipiFest 06~~> Send me your email addy for a Paypal invoice to the greatest show on earth~~>[email protected]
Is that right. It'll roll without folding down one side?
I slide mine in and out of a truck bed all the time. You must mean just for scooting around the shop, aye?
We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
I mean while its open.
See ya soon doode!!!
a...If Blodgett and Gunner say, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
TipiFest 06~~> Send me your email addy for a Paypal invoice to the greatest show on earth~~>[email protected]
I think it depends a lot on what type of saw you want to mount on the stand. I have a 10" on the A D & E stand and a 12" Bosch on the Ridgid. I don't use the huge Bosch unless I absolutely have to.
A 10" on the A D & E stand is a much, much better setup and as someone else mentioned much easier to move around.
The continuous support of the A D & E stand is worth it and the fact that you can break it down into small, light pieces to move is great.
http://tinyurl.com/mblmn
I saw that one in a local tool store a while back, I don't own it so I can't speak to much about it though it did look to be pretty sweet for the money.
Another vote for the AD&E I have 2 and they are great for trim
For small jobs, decks and framing I have 2 Stablemates from Iowa Manufacturing. They are great for those jobs
have tried others but these are the ones that get used
Hi there I have the Trac Rac T3 for my Hitachi and find it very stable, easy to fold up.
Bruce
Hi Redleg,
I've mounted my 12" PC cms to the Rigid I picked up at HD a couple years back. The Rigid MSUV as it's called was $99 and now that I've used the daylights out of it I would buy another in a heartbeat. Stable,easy to move either open or closed, well made. (IMHO). The large wheels make it easy over rough surfaces, uneven ground and up/down stairs. Remember, it's made to be portable, not a bench system.
bum
...two wrongs don't make a right, but... three lefts do... :)
You don't say how you transport your tools to the jobsite. I have a full-size van with built-in shelves that has to haul tools and materials, so a rolling stand like Delta, Ridgid, etc is not appropriate because it would take up too much floor space and would be clumsy to load and unload onto the relatively high floor. If I had a trailer with drop-down ramp, I would prefer the rolling tables to avoid lugging a 53lb Bosch saw.
The Dewalt stand folds up easily, weighs 34 lb, and has a longer support reach than those rolling stands. Nice thing too, is that you can set the saw near one end or the other to gain another 2 feet of reach to one side. When cutting long flexible stuff like Trex I set up my Ridgid out-feed stand to support the end.
BruceT
I have used the Sawhelper in the past, and, as I recall, this stand sets up nicely on uneven ground. Is my memory correct?
At the risk of sounding like frenchy :)
a 500$ miter saw stand is like a 300$ hammer....
Way more than is efficient.
I could spend about an hour and build continuous supports for my 100$ stablemate.
a clamp or some screws and a block of scrap make an infinately adjustable stop-block.
Take the $$ saved and get a Rousseau table saw setup.
bigger Bang for the buck there.
OK, all you guys who will yake offence at this, this is just MHO...I have no comment...
I'm also an owner/fan of the Stablemate delux model and like it a lot. With the addition of a couple of Ridgid Flip Tops I can handle the long stuff.
And a Kia will get you where you're going as fast as a Cadillac will.......
Just depends on what's important to you. Me? I like tools that make things as efficient, accurate, and easy as possible. That's why I entertain the thought of getting an AD&E stand. But, you're right, $500 bones better get me a stand that earns it back..... that's why I ask the questions.
I also think it's different if you've got employees. Four guys making good use and saving time ($) with an expensive tool gets it paid off faster than one guy. It doesn't take as long as you might think to pay off a tool in saved labor costs if it's truly more efficient than whatever is currently being used in it's place. From there on out it's making money for you.View Image
You said it there Brian.
When you get the chance to buy the AD&E Sawhelper - DO IT! You will be happy. Fast AND Accurate.
I have had mine for about 6 years now and would buy another if this one ever needed replaced. I have mentioned here many times before how fast it is and that you get accurate cuts with any operator - I had my nephew cutting studs, cripples, headers, trimmers all exact length after about a minute of training on the saw and he didn't even need a tape or pencil to waste time looking for.
Can tell from many of your posts here, that this is a system you'll like.
Enjoy,
Shoe
You got a link to a site for the Sawhelper?
Goggled and got mostly JLC rap. No pics.
be a picture worth a thousand words
We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geup1NGeFE83YB5_VXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE3a3Y0ZmpzBGNvbG8DZQRsA1dTMQRwb3MDMQRzZWMDc3IEdnRpZANGNjY2XzEyMw--/SIG=11n66u95n/EXP=1155689165/**http%3a//www.sawhelper.com/index.htmlView Image
Son of a B......... You had to post that didn't you?
Looks like I can give you a field report soon.
Looks killer, right?View Image
That thing looks SWEET, I am going to order one tommorrow when the check hits the account.
I'd save up for that forklift first dude. :)View Image
That deal is in the works the guy said give me half now, take the lift after two houses pay me the rest. How sweet is that. He insulates all our frames so he'll know when the final payday is due.
Congratulations dude! You won't regret it. When do you get it? Post pics.View Image
I am hoping within a couple of weeks, the next foundation won't be in for a month so I got time. I have to get caught up on some bills and then I can give him the money.
He's not going to sell it to anyone else now he said, but I am not going to take my time getting him the money.
If you've ever watched Gary Katz use one there would be no doubt. He uses it like it should be used. The stops for repetitive cuts are great. One day I aspire to own one.
Tipi fest 06. Let's roll.
FYI When I got my Saw Helper I picked it up at a builders show. FH show come to think of it. I was'nt in the market for it just yet but they were having a show special. I still was'nt gona go for it but the guy lowered the price TWICE so I figured what the hell. Got the 8' left & 8' right and two stops. I know you want to know what I paid but I can not find the receipt just yet, latter.
Bottom line is these things can be bargained (at least at a trade show). Kind of like buying a car or a mattress. DONT PAY RETAIL.
Gotta say I used the Saw Helper before and I hated it. No miter saw stand should have a fence. If the piece is the slightest bit bowed then it could pinch the blade or make a non square cut depending which way the bow is oriented. Not good. Using the Sawhelper I had to cut every piece twice. Once to cut the waste and get the piece tight to the saw fence and next to cut it to length. A miter saw is heavy enough without adding the plywood base that the Sawhelper requires. It made the whole setup too cumbersome. One thing that I did like about the saw helper was that you could set it up out on uneven terrain. If I was to get a store bought stand I would get one that did not have a fence.
My setup is home made. It is made of wood. I like it much more than the Sawhelper. I use a nail for a stop or clamp a block. The stand is clamped to horses and the saw is clamped to the stand. Here is a photo.Mike Callahan, Lake Tahoe, Ca.
Thanks for the heads up, I'll see what I can do.
dang that was fast. Thanks
We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
Happy to oblige. I usually use Gunner as my search b1tch, but he's busy tonight so I had to do the heavy lifting myself.View Image
Looks like Diesel has you covered.
I have actually been using a hybred version the last couple years. Have my saw mounted on a Ridgid MSV (or whatever it's called) and still use the tables and legs from the Sawhelper.
I should try to take some pictures sometime for the person that said they had concerns about fitting it in a van.
Sawhelper Good
I've been dragging the delta thru mud and stairs for years now and it is still an ok functional stand for how I need it.
Fold up the wheels end and walk it like a wheel burrow to the truck, put the open legs on the bed and then lift the wheel end up to push'er in.
Set up time is like in the seconds is what I like and with the bigger wheels it takes the steps easily.
Always meaning to go thru it all to strengthen and fine tune it a bit.
be but the best laid plans of mice
We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
I was actually going to get one of those Delta Sidekicks several years ago. Like the big wheels, but, once I saw the Sawhelper - I had to go spend three or four times the money and get that. Four or so years later, added the Ridgid stand - now have the best of both worlds - in my opinion.
'added the Ridgid stand'
be still in the box out in a shed.
someday
We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
Ridgid MSUV.
I'm sure has been mentioned already.