Replies

1. 
   BossHog | Dec 01, 2004 11:14pm | #1

   I've always tried to stay away from panelizing anything for a remodel.

   There are a couple of reasons. Often wall heights have to line up with existing wall heights. And it's hard to come up with exact measurements on additions. Not much point in buying prefabricated walls if you have to take modify them to make them work.

   Also - There just isn't enough overhead in small jobs to make them worthwhile. Add too much overhead into your wall panel price, and it suddenly becomes cheaper to stick frame them.

   .

   I really don't even like doing trusses for additions. It seems like it's always the same old story - The HO doesn't want us to tear into the soffit to find the existing heel height so we can match it up. Then they're upset when the new trusses don't line up with the old stick framing.

   If you think there is good in everybody, you haven't met everybody.
1. 
   JerraldHayes | Dec 02, 2004 01:54am | #2

   Boss Hog  re: "...Also - There just isn't enough overhead in small jobs to make them worthwhile. Add too much overhead into your wall panel price, and it suddenly becomes cheaper to stick frame them."

   What you are talking about there ( or at least what I'm interpreting you are saying there is the from the point of view of a component manufacturer (you being in the business of truss mfg) small projects just are really worth your efforts since there's little "Profit" in them. I think you meant to say Profit instead of Overhead because in the case of a mfg. there is a lot of overhead tools, equipment, shop space, administration etc. even for a small project so the common typical thinking amongst manufacturers is that to really make money (Profit) they need to run large batch sizes through production and minimize set-ups. Am I correct in thinking that's what your thinking?

   That said I'm looking at this from the contractors point of view not the mfg. Lets say I have an add a second story addition remodeling project where for whatever I don't want to have the house to sit there for any length of time with possible exposure to the elements because maybe I want to protect the contents and existing surfaces of the house from potential water damage (maybe I am in the pacific northwest where it rains all the time). Or I don't want to force the homeowner out of the house by making it unlivable for any kind of extended time then a quick tear off the roof and put on a second story with a crane is the best procedure I think.

   As for "Often wall heights have to line up with existing wall heights. And it's hard to come up with exact measurements on additions." I certainly think there are way to handle that. You pull the siding off the house at the top plate and shoot/survey the place accurately to get that information and you can get some very exact information. Sure it a little bit more difficult than waiting until you've torn everything off but certainly not a huge insurmountable problem.

   "The HO doesn't want us to tear into the soffit to find the existing heel height so we can match it up." That's sounds like a Public Relations problem and I'm pretty confident a good explanation of why you need to do what you need to do would get by that. And often it doesn't mean tearing off everything anyway but instead examining the project at the key turning point and limits locations.

   But still your point is very well taken on that and that is for sure one of the "cons" and "sticking points" that really needs to be dealt with and planned for.

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1. 
   BossHog | Dec 02, 2004 03:48pm | #3

   "...from the point of view of a component manufacturer small projects just are really worth your efforts"

   Not at all. I was referrring to overhead, not profit.

   For instance - If we build panels for a whole house, it might be $6,000 or more. But panels for a 20 X 20 room addition might only be $1,000. So shipping costs would be just as high for a $1,000 job as for a $6,000 job. So that makes the panelized walls look a lot more expensive compared to stick framing.

   Regarding matching wall heights and such -

   It doesn't seem to me that it's that big of a deal to tear into an existing soffit to find a heel height. But customers just don't seem to be willing to do that, even though the soffit has to be removed eventually anyway.

   Doesn't matter if I explain it or not, they almost always seem unwilling. But they're happy to bitch if the new trusses don't line up well.
   War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.

1. 
   JerraldHayes | Dec 02, 2004 05:10pm | #4

   Boss Hog "Not at all. I was referrring to overhead, not profit.

   For instance - If we build panels for a whole house, it might be $6,000 or more. But panels for a 20 X 20 room addition might only be $1,000. So shipping costs would be just as high for a $1,000 job as for a $6,000 job. So that makes the panelized walls look a lot more expensive compared to stick framing. Regarding matching wall heights and such -"

   Well you may very well have not been talking about profit and I understand what you saying about shipping costs (it costs the same for us to deliver 1 stair as it does three) but still those shipping costs aren't Overhead, they are a Direct Job Costs.

   "So that makes the panelized walls look a lot more expensive compared to stick framing." And regardless it's not necessarily true at all that "panelized walls [ARE] a lot more expensive compared to stick framing" They may as you wrote "LOOK" like a more expensive method but looks can be really deceiving.

   But this is a whole other discussion (debate) that has to do with the math involved in Throughput Accounting, the Theory of Constraints, and Lean Production or Lean Thinking. A real kool topic I would certainly love to get into but I've got a busy week this week to finish off first. (Plus I have to think about and plan a proposal for a project that I think I am going to want do going the "panelized" route.)

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