Anyone experienced this before?
Just finished a reno of our bath, and the shower is running only cold water. The hot and colds pipes have been pressurized for months, but I never thought to run the water long enough to test the valve for proper mixing.
I have access to the plumbing from behind in a hallway if necessary, but would have to open up the drywall. The shower wall is completely finished.
Attached is a pdf of the valve system.
Is this just a replacement cartridge issue?
Thanks, Paul
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Replies
See the parts labled stop tube kit. They limit how far toward hot the valve truns. Remove the handle and adjust the stop to get more hot water flow.
Thanks Bill, I'll give that another try, but I did try that already.
I removed the handle and two plastic stop tube parts (the chrome part of the stop tube is currently caulked in place) and spun the shaft of the cartridge numerous counterclockwise 360's hoping that would do the trick. Water went on, water went off, water went on, water went off.
No luck, as the cartridge does not move in or out as it is turned one way or the other.
The install instructions online on Moen's website are of no help, as there is no reference to any form of temperature adjustment of the valve, no troublehooting section either.
I'll have to give Moen a call, see if their customer service is of any help.
Paul.
You have a piece in backwards. happens all the time. I can't tell you which piece, but I had the same problem with my Delta and I just took it apart and reassembled carefully. If I remember, the instructoions were a little unclear."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Thanks Eddie,
Another look at the online instructions - it does actually reference spinning the stem counterclockwise to adjust the temp with the stop parts removed. I'll have to try again.
If that does not work, I'll pull the cartridge to see if it is defective.
Paul.
My first thought is that the anti-scald feature needs to be adjusted. Because manufacturers do not know the temperature of the domestic water supply which feeds your shower (could it be near-boiling?), they ensure that the out-of-the-box hot/cold water mixing will be on the cool side. That leaves it up to the end consumer to adjust the mixing, usually with a screw or set-screw. Your owners manual should have instructions.
Hope this pertains to your situation.
PK
Thanks PK,
As above, online install instructions just cover the install, no troubleshooting or temp adjustment instructions. The install instructions that came with the valve long ago went to the recycling plant and I recall those being pretty skimpy on info.
Maybe customer service has some answers.
Thanks, Paul
if everything else checks out, assembly wise, i'd look at the hot water tank. If the tank is old, there could be a fair amount of crud in the line. after sitting idle for a while, all the crud has moved on to the valve and blocked it. speaking from experience. i have a client who calls me every few months to remove the mechanism,(same as yours) clean it and rebuild. I always find minute particles clogging the inlet filter, but only on the hot side. soak the whole cartridge in vinegar then try again
toolman65
Thanks for the tip, tm.
There may be some crud, as we are on well water and do have high iron content. Prior owners did not demineralize, so there is a fair amount of sludge build-up that remains in the horizontal sections of the supply pipes. House is 1970, we bought 4 years ago, it's all copper.
The shower valve purged some real dirty water when I finished plumbing it, but as usual it came out clean after a few seconds. But as above, I didn't think to check the mixing before closing it all in.
The h/w tank itself won't be the problem, as I installed a new electric in December. But the crud in the old lines remains. The water from the h/w tank is clean as a whistle - I was using the drain valve as my water source when mixing thinset and grout in the workshop.
Paul.
You should call Moen.
I had a problem with my Moen shower valve only giving hot water, in a spare bathroom. I called and it was explained to me that if the valve is unused for several weeks the cartridge may stick. I followed the advice they gave, which was to take the cartridge out (didn't require opening up dwall, just remove handle and faceplate) bang it on a hard surface until you could hear the internal part be able to move, then put it back in. It worked.
My inlaws had the same problem on a spare bathroom except with cold water only.
Let us know how you make out.
Regards,
Tim
Thanks Tim,
I have to pull the cartridge, see if that shows me anything.
It spins fine, but no matter how much I spin it, no hot water.
I'll give Moen a call if pulling out the cartridge shows me nothing.
Paul
I would tend towards Ted's diagnosis too - it's pretty easy to install those cartridges upside down.
Barring that, your pipes being clogged or WH taking a dump are the other two things I'd consider.
You'd be surprised at how quickly a WH can crud up if you have water w/ a high mineral content. Are you getting hot water from the faucets in that bathroom?
Jason
Thanks Jason,
Yes, as above, there is hotwater to the bath, just no hotwater (yet!!) to the shower.
I wish I'd taken a picture of the plumbing in the ceiling/wall when it was all opened up so that I could refer to it now. It's getting on to almost a year since I installed the valve, memories fade. Yet another lesson learned.
It is a corner shower that originally had a partition wall making up the third wall to the shower, with the supply lines coming down from the ceiling in this partition wall to the old shower control. With no light inside the shower and one of those old accordian plastic doors, it was dark, dingy, moldy and leaky. It was 1" square tile laid on drywall with mastic. We never used it from the day we moved in 4 years ago.
As I removed the partition wall, I moved the shower controls to the opposite corner wall. I'm pretty sure that I branched off from the hotwater supply line and not from the cold water twice (just joking). The glass installers just last week put in the glass wall and door, so I thought I was finally finished with this reno!!
Paul
I have country water and the balancing valve starts to clog about every 5 years.
BTW, I always put in Moen shower valves with the "Stop-Check Valves" on the valve body so I can shut off the hot and cold supply at the valve to service the valve. Valves with the stop check are usually installed in motels or places with multiple showers so the water supply can be isolated to each unit. They're about a $38 upgrade and well worth it IMO, if you ever have to work on one. Just a suggestion for next time....
To free up the balancing valve, just remove the spool, clean it and the balancing valve body and stick it back in: Sometimes you have to tap the spool lightly to get it to free up.
It's all right behind the escutcheon plate so you don't have to tear the wall apart.
Moen valves are lifetime guaranteed and if you do have a bad cartridge they'll replace it free of charge.
"Stop-Check Valves" - now you tell me! :)
I contemplated some shut-offs in an access panel in the hallway, covered over with a picture. But that would just have been too easy.
Paul
Varoom, I don't mean to sound smarky or anything but I've installed plenty of that exact same model. Are you absolutely positive it is not installed upsid down and that the hot and cold are not crossed? Getting only cold water could be due to the hot and cold going into the wrong sides of the valve - hot into the cold side and cold into the hot side. I know it's a shot in the dark, but it's happened to the best of us. Check that it's right side up and that the hot is on the left, cold on the right (when facing the shower).
Also, there are screens inside the hot and cold inlets. Depris could be clogging the hot side, which would have to be opened up and cleaned out.
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Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.net
See some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
Ted, no that's not snarky at all. It's installed correct. I hope you're right that its just some clogged screens - we'll see when I pull the cartridge. This may have to wait to the weekend before I can get a chance to look at it.
And I swear I didn't use 12 grain bread to stop the drips while sweating the pipes! LOL.
Paul
Ted gets the dog biscuit on this one.
I couldn't see inside the opending in the shower wall after removing the escuchion if the "up" stamp on the valve was indeed up, but there only seems to be one way to properly install the valve, and that is with the retaining clip on the top, which it was.
Pulled the clip, removed the cartridge and it looked fine. No blockages in it or the valve.
No point in installing the cartridge back in the way it was, so put it back in upside down - H stamp on the right, C on the left, with the small rabbit in the stem now at the top. Let's see what happens.
Turn on the water and problem solved. I don't know why, but now it works. And it works properly - starts off cold, then fully hot at the farthest it can turn counter-clockwise.
Thanks to all for the suggestions.
Paul
Hot and cold are reversed in the the wall. But hey, if it works you're good to go.
Woof... Woof!
Actually, is the handle pointing up when it's off. I ask because there is one basement shower I installed that, well.... ummmm.... Can you guess how I knew? :D
But those are great shower valves for the price.--------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
Ted, I swear that the pipes are not reversed, but I ain't ripping out the walls and ceiling to confirm!
But I ran the cold off of the same line as the toilet and that pipe then comes down the shower wall on the right side, so .... maybe I should check if the toilet tank is warm!! I didn't move the throne, so that plumbing is original to the house.
But it works, so who are we mortals to ask why.
Handle still points down when it is off. Works just like it should have, just the cartridge is now upside down in the valve.
They are easy valves to install. This was the third I have done, first one with a problem. And pretty easy on the wallet.
Paul
I think it's haunted.--------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
Not too sound like an #### but is the hot water supply line warm? Are you sure you have hot water running to the faucet?
F,
No, not being an ###. There is hotwater to the bathroom, as the sink and bathroom above all share the same supply line. This reno was a gut and rebuild. Unfortunately, the walls and ceiling are all closed up.
If pulling the catridge does not solve the problem, I will have to open up the hallway wall, probably just replace the whole valve assembly. Then I can install those #### I should have put in the first time.
Paul
The brass stem on the cartridge has two flat sides on it.
Look closely at them, one side will have a small rabbet cut into the brass at the outside end of the stem. This extra notch must point in the direction of the handle when installed.
Thanks McP,
Yes, I've seen that in the pictorial install instructions I pulled off the Moen website.
Paul