Minnesota massively overbuilt spec homes and starting early spring new home construction is off dramatically. 47% in October compared to last year and another 17% decrease in November.
As a result many of my contractors are struggling..
We’re working with them and as long as they keep in touch with us we won’t be looking at taking back the equipment.. We’ve done all sorts of things from skipped payments to refinancing and whatever helps out.. We’ve done some really creative things to keep people afloat.
In telling their tale of woe I’ve been amazed at all the clever ideas some have come up with to supliment income..
Hopefully some of these ideas might help others. and maybe you’ve tried some things yourself..
One contractor retired.. He and his wife can draw social security at a reduced rate and it’s enough for them to pay their bills and afford to cover expenses..
he has enough equity in the equipment that we just put him on a one year skipped payment plan. We’ll talk again next year..
Another works for the ASPCA
When an older person goes into the hospital and either isn’t alert or (alive) he goes to their house and checks to see if there are pets, if so the pets are taken care of or put up for adoption..
In addition while there he does a quick scan of the house and it’s contents. That report goes to the hospital for possible collection purposes..
None of the above he gets paid for,
However he’s the one the hospital calls for an appraisel both of the realestate and personal effects if the patient dies. He’s well paid for that, plus he gets the inside track on future sales. (his real revenue source)
He’s lucky the last spec house he built sold a year ago and without this gig he’d really be hurting..
One other builder recycles imported cars.. dealerships get in cars with no book value they are more of a pain than a value to get rd of and keep the lot from being cluttered.
he get’s Mercedes BMW’s VOLVO’s Jaguars, and othe nice imports which he takes to his shop, strips the sellable pieces out of and lists them on E Bay and Hemmings Motor news.
One framer sells used books. He goes to places like Goodwill and other places that get books donated to them and takes all the hardcovered books off their hands.. He buys a laundry cart full of books for $2.00 He has two ladies with library science degrees working for him and they sell the books on the internet.
Another framer plays in a Jazz band. Doesn’t pay much other than a few drinks and a little more than gas money but he wants to get out and play.
One framer fixes wrecked pickups, far simpler and more profitable than fixing cars..
Many have gone back to remodeling or decks and additions. In general they aren’t doing well..
Replies
They should go into the rental business and hold those giveaway properties.
The hospital guy is a slease bag.
Tim
I like the guy in Australia who advertised really great X-rated video from Thailand for $15 when he got the orders he cashed the check and sent a letter saying he had been forced to stop by the authorities and here is a refund, a check drawn on the Australian Man-Boy Love Association. Very few refund checks actually got cashed. Cops looked into it and decided it wasn't technically illegal.
Probably an urban legend.
Not that desperate yet.
From what little he said, i can't say the hopital guy is a sleaze bag or not. Maybe he is doing the patient and their family a service but it looks more like he is doing the hospital the service, and if so, the way presented makes it look illegal and certainly unethical.I have known folks who do mind the hosue and pets while elderly spend their last days. I've often wondered how I will handle some dtails for Mom since she is in Florda and we are all up north - who can ya trust at a distance kinda thing.
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I was thinking the same thing Piffin. Sometimes, those services must be done to process medicaid services.
blue"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
From the best of TauntonU.
I know.
There is always two sides to things like that. There is a couple here who specialize in being parasites for the elderly in difficult lonely positions, and another couple who do such things out of the goodness of their hearts. Both occasionally get named prominently in wills.
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Piffan,
This guy won't be named in any wills, the patient doesn't know him. He's called only if they can't respond to questions.. (ie dead or near dead)
Piffan,
He does do an actual service, pets might starve to death or die of thirst without him..
He's insured and bonded and carefully monitered by the hospital, churches associated with the hospital and even charity groups who fund the hospital.. He's squeeky clean..
I don't doubt thgat the pet thing is a great service to mankind.It is that he may be crossing the line when he is there for one purpose but then extends himself to other snooping that raises the eyebrows.
What is sqeaky clean legally is not always so ethically. Thus my example of the folks I know who both do the same thing. With one it is from greed and with the other it is from good caring hearts. I don't know this guy and am not about to judge, but I see both sides, and for myself - I can't see me making a profit on such things.
Yet I find myself in a similar position potentially. A house I built for a couple is on the market here. They are divorced and he now holds title and has gtoine south to live as his diabetes gets worsea nd other health issues keep cropping up.
I get paid a monthly stipend to hold the key, check the heat, etc. I never sought the job, just got the call to do it, since I'm familiar with the house and it is close by here...It is three months since I've been paid and ain't heard form him so I'm wondering if he's still kicking...
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Piffan,
The perjoritive word snooping is where you and I will disagree. If you said looking at assets I couldn't argue. Reporting the same to the people who served the person at their last moments isn't criminal in my opinion. It serves the interests of the hospital true but they can only recover the value of their services, no more.. The rest goes to the state,, (Yes BillHartmann, if there is no will or heirs)
"When an older person goes into the hospital and either isn't alert or (alive) he goes to their house and checks to see if there are pets, if so the pets are taken care of or put up for adoption..
In addition while there he does a quick scan of the house and it's contents. That report goes to the hospital for possible collection purposes..
None of the above he gets paid for,"
WTF is he reporting this to the hospital at this point for. Does the ASPCA alert him to the status of his heirs, I doubt it. The way you have represented this is shady at best. I can see it if the hosptal hires him to do it after the estate has been through probate but these people ain't evn cold yet.
TomW
Hmm, he does this for two reasons, well three if we're being completely honest..
Check on pets. inform the hospital of assests. (if there are some that may need protecting or nothing worth note his reward is the same)..
He pays for his own bonding and insurance, so I think that if the property becomes available thru probate shouldn't he be allowed to bid on it?
He's supervised by the hospital and anyone else with an interest. so it's not like he's sticking Granny Jones jewels in his pocket. (I know the guy, If you dropped a ten spot and didn't know it, he'd tap you on the shoulder and hand it to you..)
People are born every day and they die every day, not all are surrounded by loved ones at their final moments..
You are confusing me on this. You started right out saaying that he works for the ASPCA. That means the only reason he has to be there is to see to the needs of any animals left in the house. If he does anything else on behalf of the hospital whjile under those auspices, he is crossing some lines that brong the word snooping to bear accurately.but what do I know. I ain't there and I ain't the one reporting this story.
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OKPiffan,
Let's say that it's you..
You help out the ASPCA and are informed that Granny Gee just died. She lived alone and nobody at home answers the phone.. You go out there and with the police in attendence*..(otherwise it's breaking and entering) go in and check for pets..
Can you honestly tell me you won't notice if the house is in nice shape or a pig stye? If there is nice furnature and some decent looking paintings or cheap naugahyde and some posters tacked up..
OH and that stack of hundred dollar bills what should you do about that?
Now if you tell the hospital what you saw that's somehow crossing a line?
Sure there is a payback. You know about the place and know if it's worth while to purchase out of probate or not.. Based on that you can submit your bid. Maybe the house isn't but the furnature is.. That may make you the only bidder on some furniture which means as we all know knowledge is power.. Not that the information can't be obtained in other ways, just that you know going in what you are dealing with..
*he's been doing it for a while and has such a reputation that on occasion the police don't bother going with him..
Sure I would notice conditions."Now if you tell the hospital what you saw that's somehow crossing a line?"In my mind, yes. I work for the ASPCA and that is the reason I am there. The hospital should be hiring somebody to do a valid line of inquiry.Maybe part of where this comes form in my head is my police training. Evidence gathering of all kinds has some fairly strict guidelines for how, when, where and why. Cross the line and the evidence is thrown out of court. It is called probable cause. There are degrees of selection , cause, warrants, etc , based in opart on the type of crime.I'm sure your state has some ethical guidelines for what this guy does too. This reeks of conflict of intrest to me though, the more I hear from you. As a personal rule, I don't put myself in a position where i'm likely to be thought ill of like that.
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"
From:
Piffin <!----><!---->
4:57 pm
To:
frenchy <!----><!---->unread
(26 of 33)
83790.26 in reply to 83790.22
Sure I would notice conditions.
"Now if you tell the hospital what you saw that's somehow crossing a line?"
In my mind, yes. I work for the ASPCA and that is the reason I am there. The hospital should be hiring somebody to do a valid line of inquiry.
Maybe part of where this comes form in my head is my police training. Evidence gathering of all kinds has some fairly strict guidelines for how, when, where and why. Cross the line and the evidence is thrown out of court. It is called probable cause. There are degrees of selection , cause, warrants, etc , based in opart on the type of crime.
I'm sure your state has some ethical guidelines for what this guy does too. This reeks of conflict of intrest to me though, the more I hear from you. As a personal rule, I don't put myself in a position where i'm likely to be thought ill of like that.
Three point shot,,..... nothin but net.
I feel the same way. We are paid to go into peoples homes and we have to have a code of eithics even if its not in print .
I dont understand why this guy has a "right " to pass through the door when the police will do it and call animal control. There would be two officers and there reason to be there would be valid. .
At this point the hospital doesnt know if there if there is an exectutor of their estate while they may know if there is a contact realative . From that point alone its not proper procedure. Anyway the state has more right than this guy to be there gaining an inventory. The rest of the people have just as much right to get paid and it looks like the hospital is being unethical and they know it for they arent paying him for that imformation which is not on the up and up and everyone knows it .
It reeks .
Tim
I ran this scenario past my wife at dinner. She is my ethics checker. I wanted to get another feel for whether I was stepping across a line here myself beginning to judge this guy a bit.She has also been the billing nurse runing the business office of one small hospital and of a doctors office. She has done a lot of in home private geriatrics nursing and was shift manager for a nursing home for many years so she saw a lot of patients pass on and the aftermath and is familiar with billing etc.Long story short, with a lot of background in this sort of thing, she was ready to strangle the guy we are talking about, cut off his nuts, feed him to the sharks, and then turn him into the law.And you all know how gentle my wife is.
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And you all know how gentle my wife is.
Well maybe we dont! :)
BTW, I'm in agreement with her on the ethics of this one. I think the guy is doing the "search for pets" thing on the guise to "case the place"
Doug
According to Frenchy he is doing more than casing the place, he is also giving a free report to the hospital for their collection purposes. Hard to beleive anyone could think this is ethical.
Piffan,
If your wife is correct, then why would the police, the hospital, the churches associated with the hospital and charities associated with the hospital approve of his actions..
I can see if you use perjoritive words like case the place, snoop etc. why she'd disapprove of it.. Would she also disapprove of it if he reported to the police child pornagraphy or cash and drugs lying on the table? What words would you describe in that situation?
Clearly if the home has valuables and is unsecured somebody should note that and pass on to the proper authorities that information.. The police are one party and I would assume the hospital is another. (speculation on my part) When My own father died His step children came in and took everything of value leaving a trashed home unsecured which became a hang out for teenagers..
I was in Vietnam at the time and unable to do anything myself. It cost me my inheritance. Had someone like this notified the proper authorities it could have been secured and the estate gone thru probate.
I did nopt use prejudicial language at at. This was not a "Listen to what this jerk is doing" kind of report. I said," we are having an ethical discussion tonight that springs from a unique situation I've never heard of before. There's this guy who works for the ASPCA who has contact with the hospital when people go there at end or near end of life. He goes into their house with the cops to check on pets to make sure they are taken care of. (So far she's smiling and nodding)
"Then while he is there, he takes a look around to see what sort of quality furniture and art they might have. ( here, her eye brows start to knot up) Then he makes a report to the hospital so they know what sort of assets the estate has so they can pursue the debts for service. ( this is where she explodes!)
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Piffan,
I now understand you better, I wasn't aware that you had worked for the police dept. and that naturally colors your perspective the same as my being a salesman colors my perspective..
Here's my take on your take <G>
The police in the past did some pretty sleezy things which to the courts opinion clearly crossed the line, with regard to evidence gathering etc.. That's the reasoning behind the Miranda rule and others. Instead of leaving it up to police officers good conscience and judgement they clearly defined rules of evidence. Break these rules and a guilty person could go free. Tough standard but apparently required in the courts mind to ensure a fair trail..
However this isn't a case of a line being crossed (IMHO) no body gets convicted or profits from his deed. He checks everybodies home for pets no matter what the neighborhood or chance of profit to himself or even the hospital. The public in general is served because uncollected hospital bills add to the cost everybody pays for health care.. If he gains from an occasional sale, it's not because the information isn't available to the public, simply that he has first hand information of things. Somebody always has first hand information regarding things.. that's the nature of the world..
go in and check for pets..
Sounds like termites are considered pets there.
The guy is definitely a slease...he enters the home under the disguise of a pet care-taker. Then inventories the home and catalogues all the valuable items for the hospital. We don't need to know anymore info to label this dudes behavior
The hospital guy is a slease bag.
I don't agree. Sevice is service. Someone has to do that job.
blue"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
From the best of TauntonU.
mooney,
Sleeze bag? Well the person is dead, any pets may owe their life to him. So maybe you should reconsider..
When people die without a will their estate goes to the state. It's the law.. If a hospital can collect money owed to them they don't have to raise prices on everybody else to to stay in business. The state will take it all if they get there first, then the hospital has to file a claim and fall in line..
So he's really doing a lot of good.
The actual search for wills and other cash is done by the city under close supervision. (No flat foot putting the family jewels in his pocket) Once valuables are secured and a complete search made for the will and any unpaid bills. The property is resealed and only opened for bids on the contents. Public bids, you can bid yourself if you want. After contents are sold and proceeds turned over to debtors, the house then comes up for auction, again public auction.. High bidder wins..
"When people die without a will their estate goes to the state. "No it doesn't.It goes to the heirs. However, instead of the will defining the heirs the law sets who are heirs and what percentage they get.The state will get the remains (after all debts are paid) of the estate only if no heirs can be found..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
BillHartmann,
You really must be a frustrated lawyer.. Yes that should have been the full text. If Granny Jones kicks off, and has no heirs the state gets it all after bills are paid. (unless she has a will giving it all to her cat) <G>
"When people die without a will their estate goes to the state. "
No it doesn't.
It goes to the heirs. However, instead of the will defining the heirs the law sets who are heirs and what percentage they get.
The state will get the remains (after all debts are paid) of the estate only if no heirs can be found.
I'd have to agree more with Frenchy on this one Bill. On this issue, I use the common sense test. If my Mom dies without a Will and she has money in her bank account, can I spend my share, or will I have to wait till the state gets their cut (pay the probate lawyers).
My mom's estate couldn't pay the probate costs. The reality is that the state gets the estate, then gives it back. We can argue all day about semantics, but Frenchy's point is crystal clear.
blue"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
From the best of TauntonU.
"When people die without a will their estate goes to the state. "
No it doesn't.
Depends on the state - in many states, the state does get the majority of the estate if there is no will.
When people die without a will their estate goes to the state. It's the law.
No it isn't. Each state's intestacy laws are different, but basically the assets go to spouse and children. If none, then to siblings, parents, then other relatives. The state only gets the assets if there are no relatives at all.
smslaw.
You said it completely, I did it short hand.. I should have been more complete but was trying to make a point rather than argue law..
I don't care where you are... there is work people will pay you to do...
if you have an able body and aren't working it's your own fault... when i see people that live around me pay some guy $100 to rake their lawn or clean their gutters... then i know i can still find a way to eat...
i often tell my guys as long as i have my lwan mowers my dumptruck and my bobcat I know I'll be able to eat...
I get calls everyday from people wanting to rent shopping center space i just don't have... but about everything is full or... they would compete with other tenants so i can't...
My opinion is that cheap money fueled the housing boom... I mean if you can't make a profit use'n under 5% money... when can you? I still think money is cheap BUT I don't think there is the pent up demand for bigger and better that there was 2 yrs ago most of which was fueled by folks think'n they were rich because they had equity in their home which was inflated because of .... cheap money...
I'm with Tim on the scum bag inventory'n folks stuff before they are dead... man what a puke
p
Sounds to me like the guy/gal that does the SPCA checks is straddeling a gray area between legal and illegal. Check on animals, yes. Do an unauthorized evaluation of personal property while trespassing sounds like the ticket for future legal action and damage recovery.
Woodway,
What would you have him do, shut his eyes while he looks for pets? If you know your stuff you can quickly determine that a given house should sell for with little more than a glance, as to the contents, Most peoples stuff is junk. Sometimes there might be valuable paintings and a few pieces of furniture that have value which requireadditional securing. (remember, nobodies to home) A note to the hospital administration doesn't seem like it crosses any line to me..
Remember the hospital is owed money for the care provided.. If it's not collected then evrybody else must make up for that loss.
But does the hospital run the bill up on people with more assets? It's easy to try expensive "life saving" measures, particularly if you know they won't live anyway. And do they look for other sources before attaching the assets of the deceased?It isn't the pet sitter I wonder about, it's the hospitals.
Bryan Sayer,
I don't know, I suspect (but admittedly don't know) if they would do such a thing.. I mean as far as the emergency room goes they know nothing about the patient. They would be inclined to do whatever they believe might save the life (I think)
Actaully given two options, one doing nothing or very little untill a fincial statement is obtained, or doing all that can be done and hope they recieve compensation Frankly I'd want them to do the latter not the former.. if it were me or someone I knew or cared about..
Here's what amazes me.
Frenchy presented some valid, even if some people think one or several of them are sleazy, ways to supplement income for people suffering from a construction downturn. And in the end the guy who checks on pets and does appraisals becomes the topic of conversation.
All the while I'm left wondering to myself, what has become of this business that presumably reputable small builders are recycling cars and fixing up old trucks in an effort to keep their business afloat or supplement their income? And from what I gather, not fly-by-night guys with one ratty old truck and a bucket full of tools. Rather, I'm assuming that these are all guys with operations large enough or allegedly profitable enough for them to be leasing or buying equipment from Frenchy.
All the while I'm left wondering to myself, what has become of this business that presumably reputable small builders are recycling cars and fixing up old trucks in an effort to keep their business afloat or supplement their income? And from what I gather, not fly-by-night guys with one ratty old truck and a bucket full of tools. Rather, I'm assuming that these are all guys with operations large enough or allegedly profitable enough for them to be leasing or buying equipment from Frenchy.
Robert, it's the age old story for contractors: feast or famine. Frenchy's post just illustrates that some old contractors have lived through all this and are quick to act. Some of us are too thick headed and think the contracting business will return. I think all contractors should read the book Who Moved My Cheese? at least once a month!
blue"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
From the best of TauntonU.
I always figured if the business went south, I would go abck to school on a loan.
Now, I might be more inclined to mortgage to the hilt and play the stock market.
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Now, I might be more inclined to mortgage to the hilt and play the stock market.
Funny you should say that.
A good carpenter friend of mine recently told me that he could easily stay home and make significantly more money watching the computer ticker board than framing. He started getting serious about creating alternate cashflow after I gave him the Rich Dad, Poor Dad book suggestion. Since then, he's focused on creating passive income and has succeeded. The only reason he won't stay home is that he likes to frame to keep in shape. He's afraid that he'd go nuts staring at the screen all day.
blue"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
From the best of TauntonU.
He'd be right.some of my best trades are ones I never made because I couldn't sit and watch for the right moments, so I stick mostly to investing and not trading.
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The author of Rich Dad/ Poor Dad made the bulk of his money in speculative real estate, not stocks though that is part of his portfolio. He was buying and trading so many properties that he used the 1031 tax deferred exhange...Good book!
To frenchy- as so many have weighed in on the hospital guy's ethics, I also think he's a sleaze. Taking inventory of someones property without their or their loved ones' consent is highly unethical, if not outright illegal.
>> I would go back to school on a loan. Schools borrow out-of-work contractors?<G>
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
Piffan,
Mortage to the hilt and play the market Interesting thought..
I'd be afraid though. I understand that less than 5% of the professional fund managers consitantly beat the Dow or S&P 500. These are guys with infinately more information than I'd ever have available and they can't do it. I simply feel that If I took your approach I'd have to pay the interest on the money I borrowed against my house and beat the Dow or S&P 500 just to break even. Let alone take enough money out to make the payments aand have enough to live on..
If I made a mistake and lost my house in the process I'd be old and homeless.. something I greatly fear.. You're either braver than I am or more foolish..
I may be more foolish, but I've been know to be called braver than the average joe too. I went into business last time in 1991 which if you will recall, was a precarious economic time. Another contractor who was thinking of getting out of building told me I was either the most self confident man he has ever known, or the biggest fool he's ever met, and that he was willing to reserve judgement until he saw if I succeeded or not.
I suceeded and he's out oif the business.as for comparing to professional money managers, they have their own handicaps. I forget what I did three years ago, but it was well above the S&P. Twop years ago, I did 20% gain and just6 this past year, I was up 20% in May but missed some trades because of being commited to building and ended the year with a gain of 17.1% I'll gladly put my record up against most professionals there. I have a very analytical mind, and a fair discipline for keeping emotions aside. i do not doubt that I could exceed a yearly 20% gain if I worked at it full time, or nearly so.
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Piffan,
What you say sounds good to me, when I was thinking along the same lines, I started to do paper transaction reports, basically without actaully buying stocks I "bought" them on paper.. I was foolish because I "invested $100,00 I didn't have at the time. and I kept track of it 'til evrything was gone. This was a while ago before there were discount trades available so fee's and expenses were higher then and there was only the newspaper to go to for information..
I quit keeping track of my "account" when I was under $10,000, But even if I'd just sat on it by then I had followed the "advice of every respectable sounding lead" and had totaly lost faith in the "game.
If you can net 20% a year then do so.. stopwasting your time building. <G>
robert,
That amazes me as well.
Tough times and I present possible solutions and instead of offering other suggestions they may know about or considered they attack one guy trying to do a good deed..
Only one person commented on social security which considering the number of baby boomers strikes me as odd.
robert,
Today one more contractor bit the bullet and called me to tell me he's through.. He's on time with his equipment payments but doubts that he's gonna remain in the businees due to the downturn.
For the last 6 months he's stayed afloat by fixing washers and dryers on spec.. (what he did before becomeing a framer) He claims he makes more money doing that then he;s been able to from framing for the last 6 months..
I didn't relize that there was that sort of profit to be made.. fixing washers and dryers!
attitude, congeniality, focus, ethics and cleanliness have a huge roll in success.
These form "your appearance" and impression to the customer.
Skill alone might keep one employed, depending on the employers tolerance level. BUT not in business.
PS baby boomers and SS?
frenchy,
To be honest I have had a thought right from the beginning of this thread.
Your boss and you profited handily from these customers over the years I would guess from the way you describe your life style and house. Has it ever crossed your mind to just forgive what they owe and call it good. They are losing virtually everything and you are sitting here telling us just how inventive at surviving they are. No doubt you took great pains to befriend them when you needed to sell them something and you benefited from it, where is the friendship now.
I guess this is why I am a socialist. No one gets to walk away from the bad times wealthy, all share the pain.
Nothing personal here, just my take on this capitalistic society.
Dove, you're kidding right?
Why should the guy get to keep the assets if he doesn't pay for them?
Communmist Russia though socialism was a good thing too. Farmers eventually found it cheaper to buy baked bread, rather than to feed their cows raw grains.
blue"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
From the best of TauntonU.
No, I am not kidding. I wouldn't have posted it the way I did if I was making a joke.
Capitilist America is a good thing as well, that is why we have people starving in this country , homeless in this country, and without the ability to get health care in this country, oh yeah and the likes of frenchy's ghoule profiting off the illness of the elderly.
I guess we can "boogger" things up here as well.
Take it to the tavern, buddy.SamT
Now if I could just remember that I am a businessman with a hammer and not a craftsman with a business....."anonymous". . .segundo <!----><!---->
OKie Dokie...
Dovetail97128
Apparently I haven't explained myself very well. First let me state that I am well aware that we all occupy this planet and have a duty to each other.. Given that you may be reading a bit more into things than actaul facts..
First I got to see earning statements, W2's and tax returns on the people who purchased from me.. Without exceptions they earned far more per year than I did.. sometimes three and four times my earnings..
I drive a nearly 10 year old truck with over 260,000 miles on it every day, My jacket is at least 12 years old and I wear my clothes untill they are shabby.. Shoes get resoled untill they fall apart..I'm clean tidy and presentable and that's all that matters to me..
Except for lunch I never go out to eat. well maybe once or twice a year with my family on special occasions..
I save everything I can, I waste as little as possible, recycle everything, and in general live a very frugal lifestyle.
My home which I am extremely proud of cost me pennies compared to it's value.. I bought my timbers directly from the sawmill and in a house than has 50,000 bd.ft. of hardwoods Like Cherry, black walnut, Maple, and some really fine woods (Burls and fiddleback,etc.) predominately shown I have less than $20,000 in.. I reused all my old doors windows and much, much, more.
Originally purchased for $107.000.00, it's currrant value of 1.8 million reflects a life dedicated to work. either selling or building.. not to play or socializing. None of the fine things I own cost much originally but reflect decades of work and savings..
The owner of my company is being more than generous with terms, normal banks would have simply reposessed the equipment long ago in many cases.. While comfortable himself he's working long past the time most men his age would have hung it up.. A lifetime of long hours and dedication should afford a level of comfort..
On the other hand My customers often are in new or newer homes. Most either purchased it or at best acted as the contractor on the job. They weren't sweating plumbing together and sweeping up the mess they made at midnight..
They all tend to drive new or near new pickups that cost at least twice what mine did..
Almost none of my contractors are within a decade of my age most are two or even three decades younger than I am..
We are not pulling the rug out from under them, we are simply giving them time to breathe and recover.. The equipment I sold them isn't affected by the down time, and will afford them two or more decades of future use.
Your comments seem to indicate that I should feel sorry for them and"give them stuff" I'm sorry but I have a higher opinion of my customers than that, they don't need charity, they need time.. time for the markets to recover so they can go back to being productive members of society..
Time is what we are giving them.. we're more than fair, we're honest!
Your right,
I was being judgmental. No excuses on my part. My apologies.
dovetail97128
No problem, you simply didn't know.
He claims he makes more money doing that then he;s been able to from framing for the last 6 months..
I didn't relize that there was that sort of profit to be made.. fixing washers and dryers!
If I made a $100 a week fixing washers, I'd be making more doing that than what I "profited" from framing.
I honestly don't think I've ever made a true profit framing in more than two decades. I might have made some wages though.
blue"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
From the best of TauntonU.
Doing anything under false pretense that profits anyone in any way is unethical. Doing same in someone's private residence without their permission is worse. Doing it with some sort of tacit approval of local police smacks of the illegal and unethical good-old-boy system.
Your defense of the guy's actions leaves me thinking that you don't value privacy and you don't value the spirit of open disclosure.
You started off saying that the person entering the hospital was not responsive. That is hardly the same thing as dead, which you jumped to later.
I you owed me some money and I asked my buddy the plumber, whom you don't know knows me, to scan your place while he was over to replace your water heater, would that be ethical behavior for me and the plumber?
I also wonder just how much looking around this guy does. Does he look in all the closets to see if someone has a starving lizard in a cage in their closet? Does he look in drawers? Cabinets?
Maybe someday we'll hear that he was caught on someone's nanny-cam and he'll get a chance to find out just what the legal system decides about his actions.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
hasbeen,
I doubt that he goes in drawers or snoops in any way.. remember the police usually are there to supervise and he may have to call a lock smith.. wait a minute.. Would you think opening kitchen cabinets looking for pet food is snooping?
Perjoritive words like snoop or case keep coming up.. Would you use the same words if he discovered child pornagraphy or drugs?
The hospital calls this guy, not the other way around.. the hospital is associated with a church and has charities that moniter activities. The police supervise and he is bonded and insured which I assume has some additional level of supervision.
Let me give you my own take on this.. I was in Vietnam when my father died, his step children entered the house (he'd thrown them out) and took everything of value. It was then left unsecured and used by teenagers who basically trashed the place..
If someone from the Mayo clinic had secured my fathers house at the time of his death, I would have had an inheritance....
I'm sorry to hear of your personal loss and can see why you view this the way you do.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
One contractor retired.. He and his wife can draw social security at a reduced rate and it's enough for them to pay their bills and afford to cover expenses..
he has enough equity in the equipment that we just put him on a one year skipped payment plan. We'll talk again next year..
What?
Been retired for 8 years and I believe they must live "homeless" . Oh, maybe in a Tee Pee!!! on open space. Can't have auto ins. Can't go to movies. No heat. Pick up cans? well...
It's approx $3.75 per hour each income.
Are you in the Senate by any chance?. <G>
eleft,
Bills are paid, home is free and clear & I assume that there is some money coming in from something (pure speculation) needs only cash flow to survive.. if construction picks back up I'm sure he'll go back to building. (otherwise he'd sell the equipment) Can't draw unemployment. (self employed)
I look at the statement my wife and I get every year from social security and yes I could survive on that if I needed to, (assuming the mortage were paid off and I didn't have any debt).. There is enough there to buy groceries, pay taxes and a few other cash flow type expenses) plus if I were prudent I could even do some modest traveling. (now granted that also would use up some of my IRA and 401K funds, but isn't that what its for?) My budget has a 20 year draw down plan. which should get me to 90 Beyond that I doubt that I'll being using much air let alone money.. So even if all I have left is my social security beyond 90 I doubt that I'll starve.. (always assuming I'm not worm food)