Replies

1. 
   jrnbj | Apr 21, 2005 05:16am | #1

   head, I've used Quickwall on a repair job .......a garage. stucco on studs & metal lath-no sheathing....the HO had had a pool put in, extensive landscaping done, end result grade was ~2 feet above the garage floor, the framing rotted out...I jacked up, cut out, restudded, replaced some stucco/lath with durock, & used the Quickwall to parge it all back together. The stuff worked well, but I think you have to carefully engineer filled cores if you are going to build "structural" walls with it.... 

1. 
   Brian | Apr 21, 2005 05:20am | #2

   Yes.  Surface bond cement is strong, fast, easy, and not cheap.  ~$13 a bag near me.  I had trouble getting a flat looking wall, however, below grade it works for looks.  I found it cheaper to dry stack and fill with concrete.

    

   -Brian

1. 
   ponytl | Apr 21, 2005 07:08am | #3

   i have a gov printout somewhere on dry stack blocks... and it gives how to mix your own mix...  seem like the mix was a basic stucco mix with fiber... i can't see it being alot more $$ than stucco (add the cost of fiber...) i understand you lay the first course in a mortar bed... no buttered ends... and get it dead level... i read using metal brick ties as you go for shims... read where some use dabs of construction cement (liquid nails) as they go to keep things tight  until they coat it.... if i find the info i'll post it

   pony

2. 
   dIrishInMe | Apr 21, 2005 02:00pm | #4

   Try doing a search - this has been discussed here before, although, if memory serves, there was not anyone who had actually used it.  One guy was "selling it" big time although apparently, he had never used it... typical.

   I've used Qucik-wall before, but mainly just as a "crack proof" parge job on a block walls.  Foundations & retaining walls.  This method was cheaper than brick veneer on low budget projects - if you can deal with the look.  Used it once as intended for a small retaining wall that was to get stone veneer.  Worked OK, but as described above, I had some trouble in getting it "right" because slight variations in the block sizes.  The look didn't matter though because it was getting the veneer cover. 

   Now you have to endure my opinion.... Just hire bricklayers and do it right.  You will end up with a better end product.   Around here, masons charge $1.25 a block, no materials included.  More for small jobs.  Experienced masons will get it right (with a little management) cause that is what they do... Less hassle with building inspectors too.  All things considered, the savings of the dry stack block/parge method would be not as good as it would initially appear.  The product has been "out" for at least 7 years that I know of, but I still have yet to hear from anyone who has actually used it to build more than a small project out of it - save the one above.  Must be a reason for that.   
    

   Matt
1. 
   jimofsmudge | Apr 21, 2005 05:25pm | #5

   I built my basement with surface bonding cement. I used both the Quikrete stuff and some other stuff I got at Menard's. I liked the Quikrete better- smoother and easier to mix and trowel. It looked like patchwork, but I thought the Quikrete blended better form batch to batch. Ponytl was right about mortaring the first course to be dead level and shimming as necessary. My building inspector didn't have a problem with it once I provided him with documentation. My engineer called for the cores to be grouted every 4' with rebar. I'd have to disagree with DIrish about "doing it right". All the research shows that a surface bonded wall is stronger than a mortared wall - there is very little adhesion with mortar. IMO, to do it right would be to stack and corefill yourself, then call in a plaster or stucco guy to surface bond. An added benefit to SB is that it is virtually waterproof on its own, though waterproofing is still recommended.
   I would talk to your block supplier about height consistency. If the block is 1/16" high on one end, a mason might not know it 'cause the mortar will level it out, but you'll notice it after just a few courses. Things can be straightened out a bit 'cause you'll mortar the top course on level. In my case, I used a bond beam around the top to tie everything together.
   Good luck.

1. 
   VaTom | Apr 22, 2005 02:59am | #6

   All the research shows that a surface bonded wall is stronger than a mortared wall - there is very little adhesion with mortar.

   That's also my understanding.  I'm no cmu fan but there is an underground house near here (not PAHS) that is wood post&beam with dry stack cmu infill.  Guy who built it for himself didn't know how to lay block.  It's working.  Built close to 20 yrs ago.

   I used dry stack on a small retaining wall on my roof with a parging, maybe Dryvit, that failed.  We followed the directions, PITA,  but I had to cap it to keep it from leaking.  Copper up there now.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!

3. 
   DanH | Apr 22, 2005 04:04am | #7

   Just FYI, saw a somewhat different system out in Denver about 10 years back, on a Habitat project. The blocks were a special design, with tongue and groove edges so that they nested together tightly. Then you ran rebar down them and pumped concrete in.

   The blocks were pre-tinted, and the concrete "grouted" them nicely, producing a reasonably neat (if somewhat industrial) appearance, without a need for paint.

   An unskilled crew (plus about two hours of a pumper truck) could put up the walls for a house in two days (and it only takes that long because you have to pour the walls in two lifts).

1. 
   donpapenburg | Apr 22, 2005 04:27am | #8

   This stuff has been around for 35 years or more . But it has not been the better mouse trap . You will have to make sure that you temp brace the walls till they are surface bonded. That is if you build them over five foot .  The only place that was built around here ,that I know of , had the walls blow down one windy day .  They had to restack . The place is still standing today. I do think that regular masonry work would be the way to go. The reason I say that is that all of the block that we get now come from an automated factory . The only time that a human touches the block is when  the mason or laborer stacks them around the building .

   The ones I have gotten will be off as much as a half inch . These used to be seconds.