I am starting the process of replacing all the doors on the 2nd floor of our 1917 home. The 1st floor is finished nice with lots of stained trim and doors the 2nd floor is very plain, all painted trim. I would like to replace about a dozen doors all will be painted. Would like to keep the wide door casing and just fit a door to the opening.
Restoring the exisiting door is out of the question, none match and are damaged beyond.
I would like to reuse the existing half mortise hinges and mortise lock sets, nice crystal door knobs.
Would I be wasting my time to try to use a masonite molded panel hollow core type door or is this a place for a solid wood door? Would I run into problems mortising out for the lock set? Keep in mind all these doors will be painted.
Thoughts, opinions, comments………….
Edited 2/28/2009 9:07 am ET by cameraman
Replies
No way on the hollow masonite with out major surgery and hassle. Besides nothing sounds better than the nice solid thunk of a solid door finding its way home and latching.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
You are saying exactly what I thought.
Keeping in mind price and that they will be painted, what would you recommend????? My biggest fear on and low end solid door is warping!!
Or do do they make a paint grade veneered door on a solid surface?
"Or do do they make a paint grade veneered door on a solid surface?"Absolutely. As Gene said it's molded masonite (hardboard) over a solid core material. They're very heavy and quite durable. I have replaced all the hollow core doors in my own early 60's home with them. They paint up beautifully and have no movement in them through the seasons because they are built up engineered materials with an inch or so of solid wood (pine) on the sides, tops & bottoms. And when they close, you get that beautiful "Kaaaa-lunk" sound that only a solid door can make. They would be ideal for your old style mortises.I got my 6 panel style doors on special order from Lowes and am very happy with them.
That sounds what I am looking for!!
Let me show ya what I have downstairs, I kinda like em'.
My wife was showing off the house to a friend of mine. He stated that "those are beautiful doors, looks like the doorway to heaven" "is your bedroom in there???"
My wife still slaps him when he comes over!!
Very nice.
Cost you an arm & a leg to get new doors made up from.....is that walnut I see?Fitting new doors to old frames can be quite the challenge. Lots of factors involved.Send pict when they're done!
Hey!!! quit scareing him away! LOL.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
Thought that out too!! But the walls are a swirl texture plaster, didn't want to disturb it. Thought I would try 1 door and weight out the labor & time to replace it with a prehung. The trim has many years of paint and the jerk that owned the house before us sprayed the walls and trim with PVC primer, have to get down to good wood to finish.
Just might go that route, try one door and find out.
I believe the doors and trim is all populor, can stain that to look like anything!!
Thanks,
Dude, wait...you want new doors?
Email me, I'll make ya what ever ya want, thems ain't gonna come from Lowes or HD..LOL
I have a vacume bag that can veneer over solid core or torsion box substrate, so even raised panels or arched tops are not gonna warp. You geta price, I'll match it..shipping might be an issue cost wise, that xtra cost will be the lifetime warranty I'll give.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
NO, the doors upstair are not arc top door, I said they went cheap!!!
None of the doors match, some of the center panels were kicked in, rough shape.
I would have loved to restore, to far gone!
My wife could give the door a 2 tone paint to tie in what she has planned with the base and crown.
I could duplicate that door, a lot easier than ordering one, but I have a shop here..LOL
You need solid stiles for the semi mort. lock sets and knobs. I am talking the surface mount skeleton key type lock set for passage doors. The lock can be full surface or full mortice, the strike is same, either full or half.
I think that Gene's advice is the most cost effective for full mortice, the stile is thin but if you stay in the lock rail range ( some box locks were odd ball heights..trust me) you may have enough meat to seat the hardware. And even then, most full mort. boxes only screw to the edge mortice, the box kinda floats in the big chop.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
Sphere,
Now you have me thinking.....the center panels don't match on all doors. Do you think the center panel can be removed and relaced with matching panels. Save the rails/stiles???? the other doors have what looks like a shoe or 1/4 round triming out the panels.
I am going to take a closer look.
thanks
Sure, yu can remove the sticking ( molded profile) from one side and possibley ( It may incorporate a groove in the stiles and rails) lay in a new panel.
IF the groove goes beyond the profile, you will need to cut there instead of a handy detail line in the sticking. You will need a steady hand and a good straight edge to do that. I'd cut away the old, and figure it as scrap, unless it is a "Piano" quality restore...that way you can router it away with impunity.
All roads lead to Rome and all that...pick one.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
Ah.....now that I see a pict of the upstairs, I see that they are single panel in keeping with the period of the house. I don't know/think you can get the SC doors as I described from the box stores in that design. Truth is I haven't checked.I would keep with the same design no matter what you decide. They can be made in a shop with not too much problem.
You can go overboard on the weight issue. I worked on doors that were new solid core that were junk.
They were full of particle board. They weighed so much they were pulling hinges off the jamb.
Just be carefull when you ask for heavy. Real solid wood doors are kind of heavy, but not so heavy that they are to heavy. Ya know what I mean?
I saw some in the local craigslist. Nice, but they didn't match my interior.
That's pretty heavy words of advice.
All joking aside, I feel all of you have some very good points to consider.
I just wish my pocket book wasn't part of the decision and then I would do what was right!! I have to find a happy medium.
Thanks.
You might share with us your cost situation. My rule of thumb is that a solid-core paneled and primed Masonite-type door slab goes for about $100, while a solid wood door, also primed, goes for about $275.
I might be off some, but a premium in the neighborhood of $150 per might be the working number here. If you have a dozen doors all told in your house's upper floors, you might be looking at a decision to "invest" about $1500 in wood.
My thought is that if composite doors were available at a big cost savings like this, most all of those circa 1915 houses would have had them, and a lot would be still kicking around today.
I ran the technical end of one of our largest door manufacturers, and in our labs, we were constantly testing and benchmarking the performance of every kind of door material and assembly out there. Slam cycles, impact, adhesive bond, weathering, moisture take-up, everything a team of over 20 professionals could dream up. Those are my creds, so this is not just a gut feel or preference.
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"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
Just a wild guess was @ $100.00 for a door/slab, solid.
If it was a hollow core , a lot less.
I have a good dealer in town. C&L Ward bros, sell andersen window, pease doors, ect....I have purchased a lot of stuff and are very good people. They can get me anything my checkbook wants. They are suposed to be largest Andersen dealer in Michigan, have a good custom shop.
I guess I need to take my check book and visit them.
As pointed out above - wrong house for hollow core anything. WoodHarbor makes a decent paneled door for around $300-$350 - anything but solid/panel is totally wrong for the house as pointed out previously.
They don't warp because they have a core that gets veneered.
Jeff
Edited 2/28/2009 4:13 pm ET by Jeff_Clarke
Ask your door supplier for the specs of the lock block, and while you are asking, see if the doors can be had with a custom oversized lock block.
Doors made with molded hardboard skins are quite durable, and I have used them in well-appointed houses when the finish scheme is all paint. My preference is for the doors to be not hollow but "solid core" or "semi-solid core."
But back to the lock block. These doors are made in the plant by laying a perimeter of wood parts on one skin, then applying the other skin, everything done with glue, then the doors get pressed during adhesive cure. The lock block is a rectangular chunk of wood laid alongside the latch-side stile, and is there so that the crossbore and edge bore for a typical tubular lockset is done through solid material.
Your specs for the mortise define the required size of the block. See if you can find out what is going on inside these doors, and whether some customization can be done.
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"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
A properly installed and painted hollow core door looks good, works well and resists the expansion/contraction that is more common with solid doors. I've installed many of these doors to my own and my customer's satisfaction.
However, they will never have the feel of a solid door nor look quite as traditional so if that's important to you, be sure to take it into consideration. In those rooms where the trim is stained, I would try to install solid doors to match. What I have done on occasion is install solid doors on the main floor and hollow on the 2nd floor.
And one last consideration is sound. Solid doors block sound much better than hollow. Usually that's not an issue, but some of my customers want to muffle the sound of their kid's music.
So glad you asked. 1917 says 'solid wood door' loud and clear. Mortise latch with crystal knobs says 'solid wood door' also. Respect the house, the craft and yourself and please use solid wood.
The fact that hardboard doors are used in million dollar houses give the house access to the McMansion club. There is absolutely no place for such doors, or the MDF equivalent of cheap (as in wrong materials for wrong use), in any type of construction beyond trailers or public housing. 'Engineered' means the same in wood doors as it does in food.
When buying a solid wood door (heretofore known as 'door'), ask about a warranty. Any reputable maker will warrant against warp for a year. Once a door is fit, hung, and finished, in place for a year, it will last another hundred or more. There is no mystery to solid wood doors, as the fake door industry would like us to believe.
And be aware that everybody making a door out of less than solid wood is finding creative ways to call it a 'solid wood' door - solid wood products, hand selected wood products, etc. Built up stiles are ok, but avoid the partical board/veneered things. The partical board eliminates the strength inherent in wood, and the veneer has no durability over time.
Remember - good materials and good carpenters age well. Inappropriate materials and inappropriate carpenters fail frequently and early, and cannot be rehabilitated.
Besides, I like to see real woodworkers employed. But then, I am biased.
Dave S
http://www.acornwoodworks.com