Ok, this week I am going to at least kludge up an outdoor shower, using a 55 gallon barrel on a rack that I will stand under. I suppose I should work out some sort of design so I have something that looks good, instead of just kludging. Anyone want to help there ? Pictures of some that others have done, maybe ? All design input is appreciated.
But that wasn’t the point to this thread. The point is that I will be collecting rainwater in other 55 gallon barrels. I will have to pump the water up to the shower barrel. I can work out all the system works. No problem there.
What I need is some way to keep the mosquito larvae out of the storage barrels.
Is there something that I can put in the water that will kill the larvae, but will still be safe for me to shower in ?
For the rest of the time that you’re given
Why walk when you can fly
Replies
I would think that sealing the entrance to the storage are with screen, fiberglass should work well, would allow the water in while keeping the critters out. If they can't get to the water they won't lay eggs. No eggs no more critters. Advantage is that there are no chemicals, pesticides and no recurring costs.
Maybe a thin layer of oil floating on the water?
What do they do in the Carribean for their drinking water barrels and cisterns? Maybe you should take a trip to the bahamas and check it out.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Edited 3/29/2004 12:30 am ET by Ed Hilton
Luka, Getting a little ripe? Time for, if not indoor plumbing, at least outdoor plumbing?
Could be as simple as nylon mosquito fabric stretched over the top and secured with a bungie cord or bicycle intertube. Or any breathable fabric - you don't need the breezes to blow through - canvas, uncoated nylon, the jacket from an old polyester leisure suit, etc. But mosquito netting has the advantage of transparency so you can see the level inside, etc.
I also like the oil idea, but only if your pump controls, be they manual or automatic, will avoid slurping the oil. Some sump pumps have a mercury switch on an adjustable length SJ cord. Those would do a good job of keep the water level above the pump inlet. The pump will also run cooler and last longer if kept submerged and not run dry. But use a vegetable oil (peanut, canola, etc) rather than 10W40. In case some does end up on your head.
Thanks everyone.
Dave, yes, that is exactly the point. How am I to attract a cute nekkid lady if I smell like a bear ? Time for outdoor plumbing. My indoor plumbing works, but is too small for my um.. largesse. So far, I have been showering by standing outside in the cold, under a tarp, during a downpour. I'd like a bit more reliable water system.
: )
I have collected rainwater before, here. Puttng screen door fabric over the barrel does not keep the mosquitos out. So far, while living here, I have seen mosquitos that can go right through the screen, and I have seen one mosquito that had a body that was almost two and a half inches long. Yes... a mosquito.
I will use an external pump. Will turn it on and off by hand. So I coud watch the water level, but I think I'd rather avoid the oil anyway. Although The thought of basic mineral oil might work. Will that eventually dilute into the water or go away otherwise ?
For the rest of the time that you're given Why walk when you can fly
quittintime
When I was a kid,and we were using rain barrels to collect 'wash water', my father would put a couple drops of Kero in. Just make sure you have a pump pick-up or bung a few inches below the surface.
Kerosene is too much like putting wd-40 or 10w30 in there. I'd already decided above here, to use mineral oil if I go that route.
: )
For the rest of the time that you're given Why walk when you can fly
quittintime
"mineral oil might work. Will that eventually dilute into the water or go away otherwise?"
It will not dissolve readily into water ("water and oil don't mix"). The only reason I have a job (cleaing up toxic waste sites) is that gasoline contains benzene and heavier oils contain PAH's both of which are pretty toxic and more soluble than mineral oil range stuff.
Solubility of mineral oil is very low, about 10 parts per million (ppm) and that is only if well mixed over a long time. In contact with only the upper surface of the water, it should last a long time (as was SamT's experience).
But, oil solubility could go up a lot if soap or detergent gets in the water. Or if bacterical action takes off in the barrrel. The little buggers make surfactents which are natural detergents. So keep the barrels in rotation and flush them out when you get the chance.
MINERAL OIL - A Million Baby Bottoms Can't Be Wrong.
MINERAL OIL - Good Enough For My Baby's Bottom, Good Enough For Jeff's.
David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
I was concerned that the agitation from the constantly added rainwater would do the diluting.
Now that I think about it, it doesn't matter. The barrel would be overflowing all the time anyway. Just have to remember to get out there and put a few drops in after a rain.
What would be the effect if I put an 8th teaspoon of bleach in the water ? And the mineral oil on top ?
Hmmmm sounds to me like it might be a good idea to put a couple barrels out there, and a divertor. When a barrel is full, give it the bleach and/or mineral oil. Then divert the gutter to the next. When it is full, treat it, and divert to a drain.
For the rest of the time that you're given Why walk when you can fly
quittintime
"The barrel would be overflowing all the time anyway"
Not if you don't want it to. Simpliest would be a hole in the side and a 90-ell turned up. Then the upper lip of the ell defines the height and the bottom of the ell takes water from an inch below the surface.
Numerous other configurations are possible if you want to not disturb an oil layer on top AND automatically top off the other drums. Don't be running out in a rain storm. Gravity works. Use it.David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
Man am I glad I posted this. This place is a wellspring of information.
I probably would have figured out the standing ell thing eventually. But it is just as likely that I would have thought of some other, more complicated solution.
I want to thank all of you for helping me to think outside the box. Once I actually start to put things together, I will try to keep interacting here about the project.
For the rest of the time that you're given Why walk when you can fly
quittintime
There's another side to this that no one has mentioned...the shower curtain...didn't see you talk about that anywhere in your design...sure hope you plan to shield your bod from view...hate to have all the locals go running and screaming...then there would be reports on CNN about a sighting of the Missing Link...
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
That is what led up to this idea.
A couple of times now, I have felt so dirty, so desperate for a shower... that I have gone out during a downpour, and showered under the runoff from a tarp.
Kind of hard to get clean when you are freezing yer noogies off, and watching and listening for cars on the road.
I was just desperate enough for a shower that I figured I could take the chance of marring someone's memory forever with the horrid view. That if someone came along, I would have to just smile, wave at them, and beat a hasty, beet red retreat. I cut them both very short out of fear of that.
What I build will hopefully look nice, and yes, I will have privacy.
I have already strung up a tarp so that if I have to use the old method again, before I have a real shower, at least I will have privacy now. You would think that I would have done that for the first one, no ? LOL You know how it goes... "I'm not going to waste my time doing that... I'll set up something better".... and "something better" gets shoved further and further back on the schedule.
: )
But I really do want to do something that looks good, and is more permanent. There are actually two reasons for not using the indoor shower. It actually is too small for my assets to turn around in... And I hate to use up the stored water for that. Doing this will deal with both problems.
For the rest of the time that you're given Why walk when you can fly
quittintime
"I have already strung up a tarp"
Those blue tarps are the bane of rural living. But this may be a case where a blue tarp is much better than the alternative.
The upturned ell does one barrel. But to feed another barrel use a tee. The upturned leg (with or without a stub of pipe) defines the height in that (and downstream) barrels. The downturned leg feeds the next barrel.
"tank adaptors" are sold for make on-site, leak-proof penetration in barrels and such. $20 or so from speciality suppliers. Harrington Plastics is one. Two alternatives from Ace Hardware:
1) two "floor flanges", 5 nuts/bolts, and two 3" circles of gasket material. Put one gasket and one floor flange on each side of the barrel wall. Drill bolt holes and tighten them together. Then you have 1/2" FPT (or 3/4 or 1", etc) on each side. Use a small size on a 24-inch drum due to the curvature.
2) Not as good but even cheaper: Get an electrical nipple (constant thread, not tapered like NPT). And two electrical locknuts, two washers, and gasket materials to match the washers. Washer and gasket on each, tighten. You'll have MPT on each end, but use a lot of thread sealant because of the untapered thread.
1/4" nipples are the easiest to find (used in most lighting fixtures) and will work well on small diameter vessels. And ought to handle 1 or 2 gpm allowing you to fill a drum or two in a one-hour rainstorm.David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
Thru the wall fitting. A common 2-part threaded item, complete with gasket (make that a 3-part, then), used to plumb the overflow pan under a water heater. Cheap, available at H/D, Lowes, etc.
"Thru the wall fitting (for) overflow pan . . . H/D, Lowes"
Dang. Forgot about those. I was in engineer mode instead of plumber mode. Good idea.David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
I was in engineer mode instead of plumber mode.
And I was thinking pvc with 2 90s in a U up and over the side of the headless barrel (no side penetration at all to leak, seal , or fuss with). Rig the "downstream" barrels thorugh the existing bungs in the the heads. Top end might want a T with a with a valve in case the siphoning system needs charging. Headless (open top) barrel will still hold an oil film--if used--until it fills, or the system won't take any more water. Depth of the output (feed) pvc in the barrel will keep it away from oil in a "low water' situation, without being in any debris on the barrel bottom.
A consideration that has not cropped up is temperature. I'd be very inclined to bury (at least partially) the barrels after the first. PacNW temps are moderated by all of the liquid sunshine, but freezing the water in the shower system is probably not a good deal. Earth sheltering also helps set the elevations, and gives something to supprot hte plumbing.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Back several decades ago during high school when I used to work in the wheat harvest, the ranch had a 55 gal drum on a stand as a shower for us hired help. The farm still used an old windmill that filled a cistern up the hill and then water from there filled the drum. It was painted black and could get fairly warm after sitting in the sun all day. Never did have to worry about getting scalded, however. And modesty was never considered.
Probably the cheapest electric pond pump is from Harbor Freight for $7.95, although I have seen them on sale there for half that. I would take a while to get your barrel full, however... The item is at:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45305
if you enter "pump" on the search window at upper left, you get a lot more listings.
Harbor Freight also has the "mosquito bits" for $7.99:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=2509
The original septic tank on my property caved in years ago and forms a really great mosquito breeding ground. I first tried the vegetable oil only to find it beaded up and didn't do much. The mineral oil did a bit better but I was still getting mosquitos. Last year I tried the mosquito bits and it seemed to work much better than even the mineral oil, and I didn't even use very much of the stuff.
If you want a bit more of a workout, you could get a hand pump. I thought Harbor Freight had cheap hand pumps but didn't see them when I looked. A somewhat more pricey (at $40) hand pump is at:
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&category%5Fname=Hand+Pumps&product%5Fid=Guzzler%AE
I think that your 2.5" mosquito was a Crane Fly. As adults they don't eat as I understand it.
An ex-boat builder treading water!
Screen the inlets on your barrels with window screen or something finer. The only way the mosquitoes can get into the tank then is by flying down the inlet pipe- not much chance in your shower barrel, but definitely possible in your rainwater collection barrels.
One thing these little devils hate is aeration. Recirculate the water with a little fountain pump and make sure the water splashes around and entrains air back into the water. It'll help with the bugs AND keep the water smelling sweet.
If you're going to put oil on the water, use mineral oil (baby oil etc.)- don't use the digestible vegetable kind. It's food for bacteria and your water will get smelly as the oil goes rancid.
The screen and oil issues have been addressed. Door screen is too loose here. The mosquitos get through it. That is the one idea that appeals to me the most. But I'll have to find something more fine than door screen. After oil was suggested, I had already thought of, and decided on mineral oil if I go that route. If it gets in the pump, it won't hurt anything. If it gets on me, it'll be good for the skin.
: )
Aeration. That is an idea. It doesn't take much electricity to run an aquarium pump. Totally unobtrusive too. Thank you. I wonder if a fountain pump costs much to buy or to run ? I like that idea too, because of the fountain noise.
For the rest of the time that you're given Why walk when you can fly
quittintime
Door screen is too loose here. The mosquitos get through it.
Go to the surplus store and get mosquito netting. It's dersigned for the task, and relatively cheap (not as cheap as bulk window screening--but MilSpec'd to resist military bug spray, milspec cleaning solvents, and the like).
Another option that has not been mentioned is the method common to rainwater collection systems--use a funnel & trap. Generally, the rainwater systems collect all of the downspouts into one feed, which is run through a S bend trap. Since the trap is in the dark, it will not support photosynthesis, which means there's nothing for the larvæ to eat--for the few mosquitos that are tough enough to fly all the way down t the trap..
Aeration. That is an idea. It doesn't take much electricity to run an aquarium pump.
It's a good idea, too. However, I'd strongly recommend going for a "pond" pump. A 68 gph pump is all of $20-25 at the big box. Energy use in the 25-40 watt bulb range. Submersible and design for long hours of running. Connections are with inexpensive 1/2{' tubing. If you'd like a cheaper operation, go shop for a solar collector--which could be $150-200 drive-away, but means not having to run household current around the shower. Water & electricity make a poor cleaning combo (well, yes, you are, as it were, 'empty,' however that just means you have a different mess to clean up . . . <g>)
Hmm. Just had a mental picture of casa luka with headless drums for a roof. No cat problems, then. Or too many.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Nearest surplus store is more than 70 miles away as the crow flies. More than a hundred if you drive. I think I'll look for it online. It'll still have to wait for the budget. But mosquito netting would definately be my absolute preferred method.
Funnel and trap may be an option, but it may also be opted out because of where it will be located. Any idea where I can see examples of this ?
The pond pump also sounds ideal. I think, in the end, I am going to be happiest with the combination of mosquito netting and a pond pump. When they fit the budjet, that is what I will do. I would probably get the absolute smallest pump they have. After all, I am talking about a couple of 55 gallon barrels here.
Electricity will not be a problem. I am probably more anal than 4lorn1 is about safety there. (This is why I feel free to rib him so. I know that I am probably worse. LOL)
Thank you.
: )
For the rest of the time that you're given Why walk when you can fly
quittintime
"The point is that I will be collecting rainwater in other 55 gallon barrels. I will have to pump the water up to the shower barrel."
Ummm...doesn't it rain uphill of the shower barrel?? Why not put the "other 55 gallon barrels" uphill and let gravity feed the shower barrel??
Rich Beckman
Momentarily confused, just like always
Rich,
I knew this would be brought up. Should have figured you'd be the logical one to do so. LOL
If I were to do that, I would have to build something further uphill from here. Something with a large surface to catch the water. I do not want to do that. I have a roof right here to catch the water from. A couple of them, in fact. But the catch barrels will have to be on the ground. I will have to pump the water up from them to the shower barrel.
Ya works with what ya gots.
: )
For the rest of the time that you're given Why walk when you can fly
quittintime
I always thought mosquitos only laid eggs in SHALLOW water. Seems like they wouldn't mess around in barrels.
But if they do - I wonder if a few drops of bleach in each barrel after it rained would either kill the eggs or repel the parents mosquitos?
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. [Milton Friedman]
I have caught and used rainwater in barrels here before. The mosquitos do use the barrels.
When I tried bleach, I had to put a LOT in, to keep them from being a problem. That much bleach is not good for the pumps, and it is not good for me, in a shower.
: )
For the rest of the time that you're given Why walk when you can fly
quittintime
Try BT mosquito dunks. They're little donuts that kill the larva in standing water. Google "mosquito dunks" for more info. Ruth DobsevageTaunton New Media
Wow !!!
Ruth, you're the best !!!
: )
I'm going to find a way to fit this into the next budget ! VERY cool !!! If a pet can drink it, I can shower with it. LOL
This biological pest control product kills mosquito larvae but is completely non-toxic to animals such as fish, birds, wildlife and pets. Each individual dunk will last up to 30 days in standing water and will cover 100 square feet of surface. Safe to use in pet watering bowls, horse troughs, lakes, bird baths, fish ponds, flower pots, aquatic gardens, flood control basins, unused swimming pools and other areas where standing water is a possible breeding ground for mosquitoes. Can be used with Mosquito Bits.
For the rest of the time that you're given Why walk when you can fly
quittintime
You are most welcome.
Kerosene and oils in rain barrels have a nasty way of finding their way into groundwater; Bt is a much better choice, imo. Ruth DobsevageTaunton New Media
Luka,
If you decide to go with the babyoil method, note that it will only take one drop of oil to do the job. A one molecule thick film is all you need. One drop should last for 3 or 4 complete empty/refill cycles.
As long as you can discern the thinnest sheen of oil on top it's ok. We used to use 1/4 teaspoon on a 600 sqft surface cistern. Way overkill, but it lasted all season.
Larvae cannot penetrate the higher viscosity of the oil film and suffocate.
SamT
Whoah !
Very cool. Good to know. I will probably go with this method first. Since I have mineral oil already. (Not baby oil) Even a quarter capfull, if it ever reached the pump, and went through the shower, would not make much diffrence at all. In any way.
Thank you.
For the rest of the time that you're given Why walk when you can fly
quittintime
Oops, sorry, unscented baby oil used to be mineral oil. Don't know if it still is.
SAmT
Probably is.
I was just pointing out that what I have is not baby oil.
: )
For the rest of the time that you're given Why walk when you can fly
quittintime
put a couple of fish in the barrels to eat the larve
if u use those donut things check around for the price, saw differences of $2-3 in cost.
u can brake the donuts up to fit the surface size.bobl Volo, non valeo
"If a pet can drink it, I can shower with it"
Dude, I have seen my dog spoil his dinner by eating out of the cat box! Careful what you wish for.
That much bleach and you don't need soap. Think in terms of 10 to 12 drops per gallon. Max it out at 15 or so drops.Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
Jeff, if you don't maybe mind smelling like ####, you could put a couple of goldfish in there.
If they end up on the shower floor, just recycle them.
Joe H
and MGMAXWELL....
I don't think I'll be putting any fish in the rain barrels.
: )
For the rest of the time that you're given Why walk when you can fly
quittintime
Hi !Im from the local chapter of PETA and would like to enlighten u on a few issues..............................................
There aren't going to be any People Eating Tasty Animals in my shower.
Oh.
Waitaminnit.
Hmmmmmmmmmm
For the rest of the time that you're given Why walk when you can fly
quittintime
Gambusia. I think that's the name of our roadside ditch fish. Every ditch has some little fish here in Florida. Their only job in life seems to be eating mosquito larvae. Where do you live? I can send you some at ten dollars apiece!:) That's because I have them and you don't. If you live up North then I could sell you some each year. Ralph Wicklund lives close by; maybe he willl do the right thing and send some for free.