Most desirable tenants: high end DINKS?
Hudson Valley Carpenter
| Posted in Business on
I’m considering building a luxury duplex to appeal to DINKs (double income, no kids). I have a view lot in a rural suburban area which lends itself nicely to this concept. And I’m pretty sure that there’s a demand for such properties as rentals.
1. Any of you landlords doing this now?
2. Are DINKs more desireable tenants?
3. What features are important in a luxury apartment in the country?
4. What services are expected under the luxury heading?
Edited 4/22/2008 5:27 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter
Replies
It might seem a minor point, but the first thing that comes to my mind is . . . who's gonna cut the grass ? Most dinks I know won't mow the yard or make any effort at maintaining the grounds. I'd budget for the lawn service and add accordingly to the rent. Promote it as carefree living.
Greg
"And I'm pretty sure that there's a demand for such properties as rentals. "
Pretty sure can bankrupt you.
Why do these DINKS want to lease vs buy?
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Without going into a lot of details about the economics of being in commuting distance from NYC and the many corporate headquarters in northern NJ, my main rationale is that the property has the luxury features already.
Quiet country road, fifty mile view on two acres. Upper Delaware River nearby with many recreational opportunities amidst federal and state park lands.
Designing for DINKs isn't difficult or expensive, just specialized. Feature a large master suite with a few luxury touches. Whatever else makes sense along those lines.
I don't think I'd add more than $20K in materials to each unit, over what they would cost otherwise. And I'd make it easy to turn the rec room into a third bedroom, should the original intention not pan out.
Why rent when they can buy? There are many wealthy NYers who own a condo in Manhattan but want a rental home in the country for weekends. Two of my good friends down the road are in that situation. They'd be very pleased to have a modern apartment in the same environment.
The reason that many of them would rather rent their weekend place is that renting allows them the freedom to enjoy different areas within a big radius from NY, year to year. Mountains, river valleys, seashore...whatever intrigues and refreshes them at a particular time.
Edited 4/22/2008 12:08 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
Pretty much the same question as Jim. Seems to me that most DINKS you are describing are going to be having a mortgage.
1 case where they might be in a rental is via a relocation or temporary business assignement where the relo co. or business will be covering the cost of the rental. If it's only a tmep assignment they tend to be furnished. Either case is short term stays.
I'm thinking your target group may end up being high maintenance renters too.
Personally I don't think there's a big market anywhere for what I think of as luxury rentals even though some places do call themselves luxury. I guess it depends on your point of reference.
I know you already know this but you have to be careful when you are being "selective" with who you rent to.
This is one sentence about discrimination from the "Fair Housing Act"
b) To discriminate against any person in the terms, conditions, or privileges of sale or rental of a dwelling, or in the provision of services or facilities in connection therewith, because of race, color, religion, sex, familial status, or national origin.
Good luck !
I wouldn't avoid leasing to anyone who wanted the place and could pass the usual credit history and employment questions. My idea is to appeal to a particular group of people who can afford a nice place, would pay on time, and would put minimum wear and tear on it.
Speaking as part of a DINK, I'd echo what Jim and Greg have said:
1) I want no part of doing any maintenance. Better than included mowing would be no lawn at all.
2) Most DINKS that have money buy their residences, even if it's not the smartest financial investment. This may be less true in a few big cities in the USA, but I think it's true throughout most of the country. (Of course, you're only interested in your location, maybe you know it to be otherwise locally.)
Just my $0.02.
Thanks for your POV on maintenance. I fully agree that all that stuff, lawns and snow removal in particular, would be dealt with by others. I envision large deck and patio areas but little or no lawn. It's a view lot in the woods so lawns and gardens aren't required.
Regarding ownership vs renting; please read my second post, #6, which addresses that topic in it's final two paragraphs.
Edited 4/22/2008 1:11 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
Anyone who is a "DINK" and has enough money to rent high-end country condos is also smart enough to know the financial advantages to owning said real estate versus renting.I own a very nice 1br house in the middle of a desireable neighborhood and the only people I can rent to are DINKs because it takes a couple to be able to make the rent. The people I get are young couples, just getting started together, maybe seeing if they can live together. My leases almost never last more than a year while the tenants either buy a house or break up or move to a bigger city. It's tough to find tenants and they don't stay long, but they almost always pay on time and don't complain about much.Of course I take excellent care of the property, so I don't give them much chance to complain...
The different environments surrounding NYC may offer a unique reason for many wealthy DINKs to rent rather than own, at least as a second residence.
Having a weekend "place" or "get-away" is important to many NYers. Some of them prefer to be free to move around during their younger years, living near the ocean for a year then moving to the mountains or a quiet river valley or on a lakefront property.
Many of these people will opt for summer-only rentals but others will take a year-round lease because it doesn't cost a lot more than a summer rental and gives them a base of operations away from the main residence.
All those possibilities are open to NYers with the ambition and discretionary income to experience them. I'm just considering a particular group of them because I've been friends with two couples who rented near me and fit that description. They've given me reason to believe that the concept is viable.
So how about building a luxury duplex aimed at DINKs and selling it to one couple, letting them become landlords? Do you think that would appeal to them? A high end attached rental to pay the mortgage and other expenses? DINKs gotta love that idea, right?
For the builder the finances aren't too much different from a four bedroom custom spec home. So could be an extra $100K profit in a high end duplex.
Yes? No? Maybe? Other ideas?
>The different environments surrounding NYC may offer a unique reason for many wealthy DINKs to rent rather than own, at least as a second residence.<
Is that really really true? Or is it something you've convinced yourself of? I don't know the NYC area. But if I'm going to commit on a payment for realestate I'd rather do the minimum down and 'own' it and the rightoffs as well as the appreciation.
>The different environments surrounding NYC may offer a unique reason for many wealthy DINKs to rent rather than own, at least as a second residence.<
Is that really really true? Or is it something you've convinced yourself of? I don't know the NYC area.
I've lived and worked within sixty miles of NYC since the late 60s so I'm pretty well acquainted with the economy and where NYers like to go to get away.
I've also spent some time in rural GA., Moultrie to be exact. The economic differences between the two are difficult to equate.
I wasn't talking about economy. I was talking about market needs. Lot's of people too close to look at a market objectively have their niche business fail due to their desire for there to be a need because it would be fun, cool interesting, or whatever, obscured their vision of the reality & profitability. That is not ruled by geographical locale.
Realtors & rental agenices (probably within the realtor office) will have a good insight to what people are looking for.
Edited 4/22/2008 8:16 pm ET by john7g
Forget these "wannabe DINKS" telling you what aqnother socieconomic group desires. They got no clue.
Business owners will be a client for you. They write off these locations as some form of an expense or another. Many wealthy will also. Most don't play the shopping or property analysis game. They simply go and experience it.
Don't be afraid to charge what it's worth.
Business owners will be a client for you. They write off these locations as some form of an expense or another. Many wealthy will also.
I know several local residents who work for BMW and Mercedes-Benz at their corporate headquarters in New Jersey. There are numerous other corporations with American headquarters in that general area. I've considered speaking with their "facilitators" about leasing luxury digs to those corporations for their international visitors.
Don't be afraid to charge what it's worth.
Good advice. Thanks. I think that luxury rentals are well worth researching further.
No.The high end duplex lowers the value on both. Run the numbers. What are the rents going to yield on an annual basis? Use the back of envelope figure of 1%. Are you really going to get that return for your outlay? Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I'm going to go against the trend and agree with what you are planning because it is exactly what I would like to do.
About 15 years ago I was in a restaurant and happened to be talking to a guy who had built some very high end apartments in a city that is known for mining and the landscape is so bleak that apparently it was used many years ago by NASA for testing lunar vehicles. This city is really a carbuncle.
Needless to say I was shocked to hear that he had built anything there let alone high end stuff.
He went on to tell me that he had a waiting list of tenants who were willing to pay what I thought was astronomical rents. Rent was paid ONE YEAR IN ADVANCE!!!
He was after people with lots of money who for whatever reason wanted an apartment. He thought that one was rented to a girlfriend of some rich guy and a couple of the others had homes in other places but wanted an apartment. One was rented by a corporation to be used by executives.
He said he was the only game in town with super high end apartments and wasn't interested in competing with anything lower.
It was a wake up call and something I never forgot.roger
Edited 4/22/2008 8:00 pm ET by roger g
Its a huge gamble. Win big or lose everthing. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Sorry, can't agree with you. Like anything else you have to have enough of your own money if not all of it. The worst scenario is that you can only rent at normal or close to normal rent. That isn't losing everything.
It would have to be marketed properly but once it got known it would take care of its self. I would think in most cases the rent could be written off from taxes because most rich people have very creative accountants.
I know one guy who doesn't own a house and doesn't want any responsibility that any ownership entails.He wants a turn key operation in that he can come and go when he wants.
Also when you think of it, what really makes something high end? Usually size and with some creative trim work and flooring it amazing what can happen.roger
Roger,
Good to see that you understand the concept and agree with it's premise.
It's true that the worst thing that could happen would be that my luxury bait didn't catch a big fish at inflated prices, just someone who could appreciate and afford the actual value of the materials and labor involved...say about twenty percent more than a similar sized apartment in a less appealing location.
"I know one guy who doesn't own a house and doesn't want any responsibility"Exactly! You know one guy like that. Everyone else knows ten thousand that would rather own and don't like renting. The odds aren't exactly good are they?I'm aware that there are weekly renters of "high end" property. I had some myself and rented it out weekly or on weekends. I didn't like the numbers. If Hudson can prove that there is a shortage of units and DINKS are being turned away, I say go for it. Stats and data will tell the story. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
"Build it, and they will come"I remember in the early to mid sixties I read something about "U store" storage units where people paid to store their excess junk. I remember thinking that it was a brilliant idea but when I mentioned the idea to friends they thought it was the dumbest idea they had ever heard. Why would anyone PAY to store extra stuff. That's why god invented closets,basements and garages wasn't it?
It was about 10 years later I actually started to see these units appearing in Canada. I have a friend who I see every few years and he always brings up the fact about these storage units and how dumb he thought it was. We have a good laugh.
Knowing a good opportunity and acting on it are two different things.
I'm basically so cheap I squeak and cannot understand why most people spend their money on most things that they do but Rolex, Rolls Royce, Armani etc go after the very small percentage of people who are at the high end. With anything(cars, stores, housing, airline seats) there is usually a market in low and high end. Where is the high end of rental units in any area?
Either way, I think it could work.roger
Seems odd to me that no one has addressed the more interesting question I asked in my original post: What sort of luxury features make up a high end apartment on a view lot?
Lots of sour grapes on the prospects for finding tenants, in spite of the fact that no one who has offered a negative opinion is familiar with the market that this concept is aimed at.
My mistake. I should've asked only for design ideas and costs from those who've actually worked on high end condo units.
I'll try that approach in a year or so, when the time comes to get serious about what to build on the lot in question.
i don't have the green stuff or the gonads to try it,but i think if like you say spend some extra dollars on stuff that no one has it will appeal to the people that can afford it. one thing that i would try to do is keep all the living area on one floor so the dinks that have gotten old and retired with lots of cash in the 401's would look at your units as something very desirable.and the fewer the steps the better.
so heres my short list[like i know anything about living the high life] high clgs with lots of glass in every room that has a view,walk in showers with multi heads,lots of tile in granite and marble,stupid little thing high toliets so you can get off easy. kitchen with roll out drawers everywhere and big #### stoves[no one will ever use but will impress their friends]built in frig, 2 sinks,one in the island,of course granite,fireplace in lr and mst bdrm. closets so big that 15 years ago they would of been called bedrooms, a 2 car garage with a extra stall for the golf cart,oh nice deck/patio area with built in bbq.
i'm thinking here in ks this would be renting in the 2500 range.but i woulf guess alot of places 7500 is closer.
i don't think 20k will catch my list.........................................larryif a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
Some good ideas in there, Larry, thanks.
The way I've done it with high end materials in the past was to feature them in noticeable places without getting carried away and killing the budget.
20k wouldn't be anything to a DINK. Add 200k to an already expensive property and maybe you are making an impression. Of course, the taxing agencies recognize that too and the tax bill starts to eat you up. I don't know the market but here's what I do know. If there is demand, the banks will lend on the idea. They'll base their appraisal on the income that will be generated from the rentals. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Hi,
I live up in Calgary and until last year I would have been a nah sayer. I have some typical rental property but last year I moved and had problems selling my condo. Its finished pretty nice, so I was hestitant to rent it out. But I've had a tennant in there for 6 months now and its working out great. Here are a few things that I found that will help you out.
I found internet sites to advertise my property rather than the newspaper. These are alot cheaper and more convenient for advertising. You will also get people that are relocating to that area. The tennant that I have is working for the US Customs and here for a 2 year contract. His contract includes a rental allowance, so the US government reimburses him the rent.
Find some executive search companies. They help companies find a VP of blah de blah and help with his relocation. Alot of the time, the company will include rent for a year, maybe 2 for them. They expect it to be nice, and furnished. I didn't have the cash to furnish my place so I couldn't go this route. Up here the typical unfurnished rent is about $2000/month for a house. I've heard of people getting rents of $4000 - $5000/month.
So yes its possible, and its good that you are doing some research now. Start off by finding some of these executive search companies and asking them if their clients would be interested in your area. If so then ask them how they like it furnished. See if they will let you see some of the places their clients rent...
Good luck!
I'm glad to know about executive search companies. That's a new one for me.
As I've mentioned, there are numerous large corporations in the general area, some of which have facilitators on staff, people whose job description would fit what you're talking about.
IBM is the Mid-Hudson Valley's largest employer with three major plants. They'll be the first company I contact. I'm sure that they have execs there on a temporary basis, similar to the custom's employee.
Nice to hear about your success as a landlord. Thanks for the advice.
Whats the population of the county where you live? If its over 150,000 I'd say go for it.
As mentioned earlier, the property is within commuting distance of NYC, also the northern part of New Jersey. So the population who might want to have a luxury apartment with a great view in a quiet country setting is about fifteen million, give or take.
Something else worth mentioning, sad as it may be; 9/11 has put added pressure on many city people to move out of the inner circle surrounding Manhattan, or have a place to retreat to on weekends and/or any time that something makes it desireable to get away at a moment's notice.
This fear based response to terrorism is easy to understand and it has made for rapid housing growth in the area where the property in question is located...not to mention many similar places surrounding NYC, and other major cities as well.
Just because no one else has envisioned a market for this type of luxury unit doesn't mean such people would be hard to find, given the right combination of ingredients. And...as previously deduced and stated...the real bottom line in this case isn't out of reach for upper middle income people either.
So perhaps instead of being so intensely pragmatic, some of those responding here should use a bit of imagination to see where this concept might work in their own locale.
Edited 4/23/2008 2:54 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
You are very close to The City then. I feel your venture would be successful. There would be a lot of people that would have the income to pay for your services.
You are very close to The City then
Commuting distance for some NYers is up to an hour and a half so I wouldn't call it very close.
Personally I think you are thinking too much about people working. Whether it's two people or about driving distances to work.
Not that I wouldn't consider the above but I would focus on people or person who has MONEY. It's the only criteria. The guy with the units in the city, which is like a carbuncle on the face of the earth, didn't seem to have anyone (as I remember) that worked. If they did work, they sure didn't worry about punching a clock.
If they want luxury and the freedom ( no work) to do as they please, when they please then they see you.
Remember there are people either for tax reasons or personal reasons do not want to tie up their money, YET want luxury.roger
Close enough though. I still feel you are pretty safe with the Idea. Get property that is close to shopping and has good schools. I would have spacious but not expensive kitchens and baths. Painted woodwork with 2 car attached garage. little or no carpet. Plenty of ceramic and laminate floors. Something where if the tenant moves you can easily get it ready for another renter. I find that a town with a University there is a good bet too.
Edited 4/23/2008 5:31 pm ET by larryscabnuts
I'll give you my 2cents. I guess you'd call me and my wife DINKS..... we've been renting for the 2 years we've been married and just signed another one year lease.
We were planning on buying this year right as the market started to turn south, opted to wait one more year because I doubt the local market has hit bottom and I don't see a big rebound over the next year. Our city has way to much inventory to justify anything but a continued slight decline.
To answer Jim's question, we started renting because we weren't sure how much longer we would live here, still not sure, and the money in the bank isn't going anywhere... We might leave when I get my masters, might stick around, so buying short term in a volitile market didn't make sense.
now, what do we expect.
I expect things fixed when I call within a reasonable period of time, and fixed right, not some half #### patch. I'm frankly spending more money renting then I could with a mortgage, I'll be damned if I'm going to put up with the same BS they (locally) pull on college students. Don't fix and I become a REAL PITA.
Other then that, treat us with respect and we're happy.
There was a girl who used to work in the leasing office that thought she could treat her customers like #### because they were "only tenants" This coming from a girl who might make a whole 30k a year acting all high and mighty. Since she's been canned the new people have been great.
My experience is jaded b/c I live in a college town, lots of rentals, everybodies a landlord, and tenants are generally treated like ####.. Most of them deserve it.
My take is I spend decent money, and more then I could else where and I expect a little better service in return.
I think I just went on an un-intended rant..... so I'll close with I'd definately plan on a lawn service as suggested.
Hudson Valley Carpenter,
The market for that style home is massively overbuilt nearly everyplace I've looked lately. It's where there was money to be made.
Recently a 5 million dollar home builder took it on a lam with one of his places around here.. He had been given a 5 million dollar advance from the bank due to his credit worthiness etc..
He spent nearly 3 million on the place but as the market went south he finished it up as basic and cheaply as possible and scamed with 2 million in his pocket.. The bank had to come in and do sod work etc.. now they are trying to sell it to recover whatever they can..
Two condo units went up around the same time. 22 million and 35 million and so far less than 5% of them have sold. Prices start at $500,000.. go up north of 1.6 million. Another development of town houses went in with only one unit rented. these were supposed to be sold at $650,000 So for the past year and a half totwo years they've sat virtually empty!
I did some work for a guy that had rentals for DINKS. Most renters were people transfering into the area and would only live there temporary until they found a home to buy or build. He had his share of problems but he seemed to think it was OK and a money maker. He owned some high end duplexes. 3 bedroom 2000+ sq foot duplexes.
Around here which is UP of Michigan, rural NE Wisconsin, the market would be more likely for "snowbirds".
Retired people, who "winter" someplace warm. There is a developer, just beginning a condo complex, with river access. Higher end developement. So far one has sold. We'll see if it pans out.
As far as your question. I would think in a country setting, outdoor living areas would be appreciated. If a person wants to live in the country, they usually like to interact with it too. Nice patio or deck area, possibly a screen porch, and nice landscaping.
On the inside, a large master suite, with a fancy bathroom, and large his & hers closets. A trophy kitchen, not overly sized, just high end finishes. Possibly, the kitchen and main living area as an open concept. Definitely a fireplace. And plenty of windows, to take in the views.
Brudoggie
Precisely! All of what you said except the landscaping. Too steep for much other than some potted flowers on the patio and deck.
What would you include in the kitchen and master bath? Two car garage or is one enough with close outside parking?
Hudson,
Steep? Maybe some terracing, or a small cascading pool, at the patio.
I'd lean towards a atleast an oversized 2 car garage. Room for some big people toys.Busy people of that demographic, often travel seperately, even with gas at $4.00+ a gallon, so you need to park both vehicles inside.
As far as the kitchen. What is in a high end home, in the area? I'd think comparable would be a starting place. And seeing the size may be smaller, than a kitchen in a home, you could step up a bit more, without breaking the bank.
In the bath: Heated floors, if tile. A large shower, big tub, two seperate vanity areas, and plenty of storage. Maybe, a nice window view looking out from the tub.
As a side. I've been looking at developing a higher end duplex here. Not extremely high end though. No sub-zeros or vikings, maybe granite counters. The market here, demands easy access, and everything on one floor. This requires a bit more real estate, than multi level. That, changes the costs a bit, and pushes the idea just about out of reason. It would definitely be a very long term investment, for me. I'm not sure I want to be tied to the thing, for so long. Therefore, I am reconsidering.
I've got a former employer here, with a bunch of these, and he is doing well. He was the first one here in it though.
Brudoggie
If you are not able to do the outside landscaping, how about a greenhouse-style room (not a true hot greenhouse) and you providing plant maintenance.
I would think that many who live in Manhattan would love to go home to a lush plant-filled home where they don't have to worry about watering or pruning the plants."Objects in mirror appear closer than they are."
Klakamp Construction, Findlay, Ohio - just south of the Glass City
I think we should make a distinction between high end features and expensive, service oriented condo life.
I'm not aiming for people who need to be pampered, just a relatively independent couple who feel good about doing almost everything for themselves. That's been my experience with DINKs so that's why I've defined them as the kind of tenant I want to attract.
The idea is to provide the kind of environment which allows them to really enjoy their success in life while feeling self sufficient and secure. I believe that's what most "liberated" couples want for themselves.
I don't intend to do a lot of regular maintenance on these units, if I decide to build them. That would mean having dependable, low skilled services available. That's just not easily found in rural life.
Garbage pickup and snow removal can be contracted. That's about it from my end. If the tenants want maid service they can arrange that for themselves.
A few potted indoor plants/shrubs with watering via timer is something that could be planned for but I don't consider that kind of thing necessary or even very desireable.
The natural beauty of the outside environment will be highlighted in every living space. It's the lack of that in the city which makes indoor plants significant to some people.
There are many acres of trees and scrubs in view on the down slope of the propety with miles of countryside rolling away to distant hills. It's hard to improve on that with an indoor potted plant.
PS: Thanks for the personal quote in your profile. It's something I need to practice, actively.
Thanks for your suggestions too. They may not fit my concept but they're worthy of thoughtful consideration, which I've given them because of the interest you've shown in this topic.
Edited 4/25/2008 6:58 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter
You asked about what to do to attract high end tenants and something you might want to consider is taking a look at high priced homes and condos in your area.
Walk through the model homes and open house and check out the decorating, floor plans, colors, cabinets, windows, trim, tile, lighting, flooring, etc.
For example, here in Wichita an investor bought an old commercial building and made it into high priced condos
I walked through the model condo and checked it out
They were loft style with high ceilings.
Exposed sheet metal ductwork over head.
Exposed electrical conduit overhead.
New modern open floor plan with kitchen open to living room etc.
There was a "common area" on the flat roof where you could play basketball, cook out, sit outdoors, have a party or reception, etc.
Good luck!
As Mrfixit said one must be careful advertising, I have a landlord guru friend and i said i was going to put in my ad something like kid friendly and he said thats enough to be sued, Not sure if thats the wording i was going to use but it was something like that and i was surprised how careful the wording has to be, Another friend had his house for sale pulled off craigslist because they said a Church was nearby. I guess he said theres people with out kids that would ask to rent and if you did not rent it to them they had cause to sue you, same with the Church nearby, CRAZY
Before I make the decision about what to build on this property I'll do some fairly extensive research with several major international corporations which have their headquarters in northern NJ and would be likely candidates to lease one or more units of the kind we're talking about.
I
A friend in Vegas, did dual master suite, high end rentals, and made a killing with them. But, Vegas probably has at least as many well paid singles, as it does dinks.
The plus sides: no kids; and, if one of the renters would decide to move on, the other would stay and find a new room mate.
Most people though he was nuts.
i thought about this thread at lunch today,sitting there eating my taco as they are putting finishing touches on a new 1m starbucks. when i was 25 i would of bet the world that no one would ever pay 5.00 for a cup of coffee,i don't care how good it is. or 1.50 for a bottle of water that came out of some city water system and run through a filter.
thats not rich folk doing that it's people with reg jobs buying thier coffee for 5 bucks.
build high end ,they will come. the normal guy out here has a hard time grasping that there are people knocking down 2 mil a year [i do]in some small co. mangement postion that would write your place off as "office" and only be paying half the rent while uncle sam pays the other half.
ya about got me talked into it,but i live in ks,no senic view here.larry
if i was rich i'd sign a lease now..........if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
This thread got me curious about what NYers currently have to pay for a decent condo in mid-town Manhattan so I did a brief search on http://www.realtor.com .
I was surprised at how little one million will buy in today's market there. But it supports my concept.
If you're interested, have a look. They put in virtual tours on some of the nicer condos.
You know your market better than anyone here. Do a test advertisement. Advertise your idea and see how many calls you get. When they call, tell them that your rental won't be ready for a year and put them on your mailing list. If you get calls, you'll know you have a market. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
As you point out, I know the market. I even know some of them by name. They live in the same neighborhood. I've never doubted that I could make a fine income off of a luxury duplex on that particular lot. It's only the idea of going after DINKs that made ask about them here.
But it would interest me to know if this concept has potential in other areas so why don't you place an ad, then let us know what kind of response you get?
"As you point out, I know the market. I even know some of them by name. They live in the same neighborhood. I've never doubted that I could make a fine income off of a luxury duplex on that particular lot. It's only the idea of going after DINKs that made ask about them here.But it would interest me to know if this concept has potential in other areas so why don't you place an ad, then let us know what kind of response you get?"I'm guessing you are being sarcastic. I'm sorry that I participated in your discussion.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
No sarcasm intended. Just trying to get you to really participate in a way which would produce some useful answers, not just speculation.
Several of the couples who live in that neighborhood are people who travel in the kind of social circles we're talking about. One's a US Congressman and another couple are well known documentary film makers.
I've known both for nearly forty years. And I'm pretty sure that either of them would know someone, family or friends, who'd be happy to find a suitably high end apartment in their neighborhood.
Your participation has value, even if it doesn't offer any specific answers, because it causes me to focus more directly on the market instead of relying on my own speculation.
Even though my speculation is based on past experience, working for and getting acquainted with wealthy people in the area, I'm still better served by replacing it with some solid research. I believe that you might also find better answers on this topic if you did some research yourself, in your area.
Edited 4/24/2008 1:01 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
I've already owned a "high end" weekend type rental business. I sold it last year. I'm not interested in exploring the opportunities here for various reasons. The most significant reason is that I'm not interested in creating a "passive" income that isn't passive. You have has other suggest that you contact property managers. I agree. The property managers that I would have had to contract with were incompetent in 9 out of 10 categories and ultimately, I would have been holding the bag if I contracted with them. So, I'd warn about listening to their sales pitch if you really were interested in this business. If I was interested in doing what you are doing, I most certainly would run a public ad campaign (free craigslist ads and paid newspaper ads) to judge interest. I'd offer reservations at whatever price my projections indicated. I'd leave the dates out and when the clients called, I'd offer the bookings at my projected launch date. If I ran the ads and got no calls, I'd start rethinking things. If I got ten calls, I'd start lining up investors for five of these projects. I'd also do ten other market studies as suggested by others. I'd talk to your neighbors and their friends but keep in mind that many of your acquaintenances won't want to rain on your parade so I'd take their enthusiastic responses with a grain of salt. Good luck. Don't let my wants and needs cloud your planning. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
what to put in there?
Sub zero
Viking
NO vinyl. Bamboo? something exotic. agree on the heated floors and the extra fixtures on the walk in shower.
must have hi speed internet
helicopter pad?
stamped, stain crete. no plain exposed ag concrete
possibly pavers instead of crete. Heated if snow is likely/possible
what to put in there?
Sub zero, Viking
Got a local dealer for both. I'm going to stop in the later today. Thanks for the reminder.
possibly pavers instead of crete. Heated if snow is likely/possible
Yes, that's a worthy idea to consider. The driveway will be short so both pavers and heating are possible. That's a good subject for research.
Another way of researching this would be to contact a local property management company and pick their brain and ask them if anyone else is doing this.
You could ask what they would charge to manage these properties for you.
You could ask about their "high end" properties. How much they rent for. Who rents them. Condition and amenities.
You might hit upon someone who has been doing this for many many years and they are a wealth of info
Good luck !
Good idea. I'd thougt of speaking with some local real estate people but not property management firms. I'll put that heading on my list.
Geez, talk about going in every back door possible!
Call a local travel agent. Tell them YOU want to rent something for a week or two that has that view you think your's could become. Tell them you want it higher end or as a backup, a lower higher end.
They will show you your competition and all sorts of great ideas. Free.
I suspect that travel agents work through RE agents but it's worth a call. Thanks.
I just ran a google search to see what is available along these lines here in Wichita.
Here is a website where they offering "luxury apartments" with a scenic view of wichita
http://www.garveycenter.com/
Gee. If between $500.00 to $1000.00 is considered high end in Wichita I would hate to see what low end prices were.roger
wheeew would the title of this thread bomb out a vietnamese person.