I have has a water issue in my basement that started soon after I moved in. The water comes up from the floor, not from the walls, and occurs mostly in the winter time. I installed an emergency trench about 4in wide diagonal from one corner of the basement to another with a sump pump at the end. This makes it very easy to trip when walking in the basement, but it was an emergency situation and it solved this issue at least until yesterday when the pump died. So now I am looking at a more permanent solution rather than have a trench in the middle of my floor.
I want to cut a new trench around the perimeter of the basement, that leads to a sump at one corner, but before I dive in I would appreciate any advice on the following.
1. After I cut the trench, do I just fill it with gravel, or is there some cap I can put over it that allows water in?
2. How wide and deep should the trench be?
3. I have it pump outside, but it currently ends about 1ft outside the house. Should I extend that longer? If it is too short the water will just seep back in, and if it is too long then I am concerned that the water may freeze in the pipe and clog it.
Replies
How inportant is cost cs quality?
And
Is the house sitting on any kind of slope.
Doing it right will cost between 12k and 20k.
SamT
Guys that don't do things correctly the first time.....then argue that they did nothing wrong.....if made to agree to fix the problem, rarely put the time and effort into truely doing it properly. they'll just look for the quickest fix to appease you and get their money. JDRHI 84310.51
I plan to do the work myself, quality is important, but I cannot affort 12k for this project. The house is on a flat street, sloped toward the back.
One method is to dig the perimeter trench as you have stated.
1)Dig deep enough and wide to install a perforated drain tile with a filter fabric wrapped around it in the trench , place drain gravel around the pipe and on top of it. Cover gravel and pipe with concrete leveled to the surrounding floor.
2) Sump in one corner as you have now, spend the money for a good sump pump.
3) Pipe outflow (with an installed back flow preventer) either to "daylight" (meaning it free flows down hill from the end of the pipe) or into a storm sewer.
4) 1' from the house is nowhere near far enough unless you are on a hilside lot and pumping out the down hill side, even then I would extend it further.
Edit:
Make sure any exteriour drainage (downspouts, grading etc.) direct water away fron the foundation.
Edited 1/28/2007 7:05 pm ET by dovetail97128
Thanks dovetail,
Is performated drain tile the same as perforated ADS pipe?
The lot of flat side to side, but is lower at the back yard. Maybe 2ft lower over 100ft. So the sump waste very quickly flows down a side path an into the back yard (though I would like to see it pool further way from the house, currently it is just about 3 ft away).
Is there any problem with freezing water if I make the pipe go 4-6 ft from the house? I have a backflow preventor installed so won't that leave the water in the pipe to freeze? I did put a slight downward tilt to the pipe as it exits the house to assist in any draining so that water won't want to stay in the pipe.
Exterior downspouts go into an underground teracotta pipe system that leads toward the back of the house. There is either some under ground pool where it collects, or it crosses though my back neighbors house and into the next street.
ADS will work .
I did not address any issues outside of simply the work you suggetsed. I concur with the other poster here who have talked about the need to address the issues that may be causing the water to show itself under your slab.
Blocked downspout drains, lack of foundation drain tiles, ensuring that water is directed away from the building are all things that need to be looked at and dealt with. Edit:
There are sump "buckets" available that are made just for what you are doing.
Freezing in the drain should not be a problem if it has a high point inside your basement and then grades down from there to daylight or dry well.
Edited 1/29/2007 12:14 am ET by dovetail97128
With sump water pooling that close - even at 6-8 feet away, it could be percolating down in the soil and right back into the house again, depending on subsurface soils and topography. The downspout water system could be clogged too if it is old, by silt or a tree root(s)
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Thanks for all the advice. My plan now is to do as follows.
1. create a trench to fit 4in peforated pipe, which is wrapped in fabric then later covered with gravel and concrete (not sure if I will use ADS or schedule 40)
2. at bulkhead install a floor drain that goes into perforated pipe.
3. connect all pipes to a sump basin.
4. waste from basin to go several feet from house.
I will post some photos of the before and after once I get underway.
I suggest that you deal with your downspout and sump discharge issues first before you do more work in the basement. Number 1 -- get the water away from house. Number 2 -- do your interior drain and sump work to deal with any remaining water issues (if needed after you do Number 1).
Billy
Well, you always need to do number 2, just hopefully not as often as number 1.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Dan,
I was worried that I was setting myself up, and I did. You got me!
Billy
Why don't you start with just your downspouts? 90% of basement water issues are remediated by simple exterior above grade changes. Start by terminating your down spouts to day light 6 to 10' from the house as others suggested. Confirm you have an appropriate ground slope along the perimeter of the house.
A little more water in the basement will not hurt. Wait and see if these simple measures provide relief. Your fishing with dynamite. Sure you'll get a few fish but it is overkill at this point. Finesse first...brut force second.
There is no water in the basement even with heavy rains so I don't think there is an issue with the downspouts. It only floods when the water table rises each winter.
But what causes the water table to rise? I forget where you are (no profile), but rainwater from your downspouts comprises a remarkable part of "groundwater".
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Profile details filled in. They used to be there but must have been reset with some prospero upgrade.
Yeah, it doesn't get cold enough there for the ground to really freeze most years, and you don't get that much snow. The water is likely just local rainwater from the "rainy season" -- water that fell within 50 feet of your house.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
The question to ask Yourself is has the floor flooded every yr when that the water table rises? Or has somehing changed in recent yrs with the existing drainage sytem?
Start with the basics: good downspout extensions (6' - 10') away from the structure - get them and the sump discharge past the overdig area (the original excavated area around the perimeter when they built the house.)
Right now, the water you're pumping out is probably just being recirculated. Just make sure the 6' - 10' sump discharge pipe slopes down outside so it will drain out each time it runs. Except in severe climates, that should be sufficient to keep it from freezing.
Make sure the grading slopes away from the soil
If that doesn't do it, check with someone experienced and without a product to sell'; An experienced home inspector can often diagnose the likely source of the problem and is likely to know what sorts of fixes wotk in your area.
What made the teaching of Jesus different and apparently so hard to accept then as now, was that it required a critical reassessment of the structures and values and attitudes of human society as his listeners and followers shared in it.
- Monika K. Hellwig
from Jesus: The Compassion of God (The Liturgical Press, 1983)
Hi rjw,
Downspouts are not a problem as they go to an underground pipe system (not sure to where)
No overdig area here. House was built in 1912. I do suspect that the water just recirculates, but it seems that the house was built on an old river bed (directly under the basement floor is clay)
> Downspouts are not a problem as they go to an underground pipe system (not sure to where)That may well be your problem. Often these are routed to a "dry well" that just pushes the water into the ground. And even more often the pipes have collapsed somewhere along the way and the water is being forced out.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
I do suspect a dry well as on very heavy rains (the kind you get only every 2 years), the system cannot handle all the water and I end up with a "pond" in the back 5ft of my yard. It is only about 4in deep and lasts only a few hours.
Should I be concerned about the dry well? I suppose I can dig it up and install a new one with a pump that goes into the storm drain system, but that sounds very expensive.
Thinking about the drain tile and how it connects to the sump basin - The basin I have is solid, no where on the side to connect the drain tile. Do I cut a hole in it to connect the drain tile, or can I simply drill a few holes in the bottom and let the water work its way up the basin?
It's better to run the downspouts "to daylight" if at all possible. If there's any slope to your property that you can take advantage of, either run the downspouts out on the surface and grade the lawn away from the house, or run drain pipe for the downspouts out to to a low place where they can drain to the surface and away.Check with the city folks to see if you can legally tap into the storm sewer (and whether it's legal to pump into the street gutter, etc). But even if it's currently legal to dump storm water (from downspouts or your sump pump) into sanitary sewers, it won't be in another ten years, probably, so try to avoid that option.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
In 1912 subgrade drainage would have been terracotta tile - now likely crushed.
You don't say what the subgrade conditions are but it sounds like rocky/silty soil. Compounding your issues may be a stone (?) or otherwise porous foundation wall? Of course, if the water is coming up from below that's the primary source - I've had a client with a house built on an old spring/water course - you really have to do quite a bit to address this if it really once was a stream bed.
I would repipe leaders away (shallow) to make sure. Then establish your perimeter drain with a large sump pit and high capacity sump pump. You definitely want your pipe to enter the pit - cut a hole the size of the pipe. Also, don't 'cheap out' on the pipe - use only ASTM 2665 PVC perf pipe. For a pump I'd recommend something on the order of a Zoeller M98 - and you can use their sizing program on line here - http://www.zoeller.com/zcopump/PumpSizing/PumpSizing.htm If you want to be extra safe, a high-capacity backup pump like the Basement Watchdog is nice to have too.
In 1912 it was fairly common to use brick or a very thin concrete slab for a basement floor. The thin slab may be part of the problem too.
Good luck!
JeffPS - Drywells only last so long before they silt in - in the days before filter fabric especially!
Edited 1/28/2007 10:00 pm ET by Jeff_Clarke
Edited 1/29/2007 12:01 am ET by Jeff_Clarke
Your downspouts going to places you don't know in an almost 100 year old house may well be your problem.
If I read this right... water is coming up through the concrete floor, then running across the surface of the floor to the sump.
If that is correct your drain tile is not working.
Basement water issues should always be fought outside the foundation walls but a rising water table can only be corrected by drain tile and a sump pump.
Hi Sledgehammer,
Water comes up from the trench, but sump died and it overflowed onto the floor. Now that pump is back up an running, trench fills up and goes to sump. (amazingly, the pump is 3yr tomorrow and has a 3 yr waranty!)
Seems to be a rising water table.
While I am putting in the trench, can I put in a floor drain too, in order to collect any water that may collect at the bottom of the bulkhead doors? Does the drain get connected to the same drain tile?